Confirmed with Link: COL trades Barrie(50% retained)/Kerfoot/2020 6th to TOR for Kadri/Rosen/2020 3rd

[Chiarelli]

I read my daughter a book called “stuck” that she just loves.

If you’re not familiar it’s about a boy named Floyd that gets his kite stuck in a tree.

To get it down Floyd throws a number of different items into the tree that get increasingly outrageous, but all stuck.

This is the leafs.

 

[shadow1]

It can be argued the Leafs made a misstep in signing Tavares. Great player, but signing him was a luxury and not a need.

Leaving Kadri in place as the 2C, and then using the $11M they're spending annually on Tavares on (2) defenseman (and maybe even another forward) makes them a better, well balanced team.

 

[Chiarelli]

It can be argued the Leafs made a misstep in signing Tavares. Great player, but signing him was a luxury and not a need.

Leaving Kadri in place as the 2C, and then using the $11M they're spending annually on Tavares on (2) defenseman (and maybe even another forward) makes them a better, well balanced team.

Crazy but I agree in different sense they bypassed a proper rebuild and missed out on another essential top end player namely a d man

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Leafs did what the Avs did not, when the first pieces were there they kept adding via UFA and other deals. Avs bottomed out again at the point where the Leafs retained and added externally.

If Roy had won the power struggle....the Avs would be where the Leafs are now. Still a competitive team, but lacking depth and long term vision.

That said, neither team has won anything. So neither has been proven more or less valid.

 

[jaems]

Kadri is nice but getting the chance to add another 1st line Center who is still elite and have two first lines is too good to pass up. Center is a hugely important position.

I think if you're going to go for more of a balanced approach, I would let go of Nylander or Marner in exchange for a top pairing defenseman. Or at have packaged Kadri with a 1st rounder and Kapanen for someone much more fitting than Barrie.

But maybe they won't have to go that route. If Sandin/Liljegren/Dermott develop into reliable Top 4 material, they'll have a window before big raises to their defense where they can really go for it.

 

[Cappuccino]

That he isn't a 1D probably. Since Keefe took over he's played exactly how he has over his whole career, high risk and high reward. But he wasn't the type of dman they needed so now they're putting all the blame on the new guy.

That is maybe the strangest part. I do know guys on the Avsboard have knowledge, but you might asume scouts know more. There are not that many players who play as advertised as Barrie, but also Kerfoot is exactly how he was advertised.

The trade worked out fine for the Avs though.

 

[Cappuccino]

It can be argued the Leafs made a misstep in signing Tavares. Great player, but signing him was a luxury and not a need.

Leaving Kadri in place as the 2C, and then using the $11M they're spending annually on Tavares on (2) defenseman (and maybe even another forward) makes them a better, well balanced team.

But with Kadri as the 2C (and thus untradeable) where would that defenceman come from?

 

[shadow1]

But with Kadri as the 2C (and thus untradeable) where would that defenceman come from?

Just signing guys, or making a trade I meant. The Leafs have done a great job drafting and developing.

 

[MarkT]

Kadri is nice but getting the chance to add another 1st line Center who is still elite and have two first lines is too good to pass up. Center is a hugely important position.

I think if you're going to go for more of a balanced approach, I would let go of Nylander or Marner in exchange for a top pairing defenseman. Or at have packaged Kadri with a 1st rounder and Kapanen for someone much more fitting than Barrie.

But maybe they won't have to go that route. If Sandin/Liljegren/Dermott develop into reliable Top 4 material, they'll have a window before big raises to their defense where they can really go for it.

Yeah the Leafs didn't make a mistake by signing Tavares. Their mistake was not immediately trading one of their young wingers+ for a stud right side defenseman. The team should have been built around Tavares, Matthews, Reilly, (mystery defenseman), Andersen. Dubas doesn't seem to understand that you need good defensemen who can play defense.

 

[Cappuccino]

Just signing guys, or making a trade I meant. The Leafs have done a great job drafting and developing.

Yeah but without Tavares a trade for a D is a lot harder to make. I guess the problem is adding Tavares and also no wanting to trade Matthews, Marner or Nylander for D is the real problem. Now the Leafs have lost the ability to trade Kadri and their 2020 1st round pick and still don't have the RD the Leafs need.

Not to believe every rumour, but some rumours say the Leafs are interested in Severson or Dumba. And who knows what they need to give up, to still not have the RD they need.

 

[Avs_19]

Poor Barrie. At least he still has his sense of humour.

 

[Koolboss]

It can be argued the Leafs made a misstep in signing Tavares. Great player, but signing him was a luxury and not a need.

Leaving Kadri in place as the 2C, and then using the $11M they're spending annually on Tavares on (2) defenseman (and maybe even another forward) makes them a better, well balanced team.

100% agree

 

[shadow1]

Yeah but without Tavares a trade for a D is a lot harder to make. I guess the problem is adding Tavares and also no wanting to trade Matthews, Marner or Nylander for D is the real problem. Now the Leafs have lost the ability to trade Kadri and their 2020 1st round pick and still don't have the RD the Leafs need.

Not to believe every rumour, but some rumours say the Leafs are interested in Severson or Dumba. And who knows what they need to give up, to still not have the RD they need.

I agree there is no way Toronto (likely) could've acquired a defenseman equivalent to Tavares-caliber as a forward, but maybe they could've brought in (2) real strong defensemen to give them an excellent unit on the back end.

But hey, I'm assessing all of this in retrospect, so it's hard to be critical.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I agree there is no way Toronto (likely) could've acquired a defenseman equivalent to Tavares-caliber as a forward, but maybe they could've brought in (2) real strong defensemen to give them an excellent unit on the back end.

But hey, I'm assessing all of this in retrospect, so it's hard to be critical.

Yeah their only chance getting that dman was via Kadri+. I just think Barrie wasn't really the right one for them.

 

[shadow1]

Yeah their only chance getting that dman was via Kadri+. I just think Barrie wasn't really the right one for them.

I mean, they gave up a 1st round pick just to get Marleau's contract off the books. They would have just moved other pieces, or signed players in free agency. Their defense has been sooooo bad the last few years.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

Can we trade back in this trade deadline?

 

[Babel Salamander]

Confirmed with Link: - COL trades Barrie(50% retained)/Kerfoot/2020 6th to TOR for Kadri/Rosen/2020 3rd

The trade deadline thread looks an awful lot like the first several pages of this thread. Just saying.

 

[Foppa2118]

It can be argued the Leafs made a misstep in signing Tavares. Great player, but signing him was a luxury and not a need.

Leaving Kadri in place as the 2C, and then using the $11M they're spending annually on Tavares on (2) defenseman (and maybe even another forward) makes them a better, well balanced team.

Nylander is the luxury IMO.

Should have moved him for a two way D after he signed, and replaced him with a cheaper and less productive winger somehow. Burakovsky for example.

Tavares + 50-60 point winger > Kadri + Nylander

 

[shadow1]

Nylander is the luxury IMO.

Should have moved him for a two way D after he signed, and replaced him with a cheaper and less productive winger somehow. Burakovsky for example.

Tavares + 50-60 point winger > Kadri + Nylander

Maybe, but Nylander only makes $6.96M per season; the Leafs would be extremely hard pressed to turn that money into a 50ish point winger, and then use the remainder of that money to upgrade their blue line.

Tavares is a great player, but he makes $11M, which is nearly as much as Kadri and Nylander combined ($11.46).

 

[Avs_19]

Barrie and Kerfoot for Kadri, Hutchinson, and a 3rd.

 

[Foppa2118]

Maybe, but Nylander only makes $6.96M per season; the Leafs would be extremely hard pressed to turn that money into a 50ish point winger, and then use the remainder of that money to upgrade their blue line.

Tavares is a great player, but he makes $11M, which is nearly as much as Kadri and Nylander combined ($11.46).

Burakovsky makes $3.25M, and will probably get $4.5-5M or so after this year. He's on pace for 65 points. 8 less than Nylander at nearly $7M.

Donskoi similarly is on a 45 point pace over 82 games, and is making $3.9M.

You can find a decent 50ish point winger if you're smart about it. Finding a second point per game center is much harder to do, and can be the type of thing to put you over the edge.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Barrie and Kerfoot for Kadri, Hutchinson, and a 3rd.

Okay, Kerfoot was more of a cap dump and I am happy we got rid of him. Basically Barrie for Kadri+3rd. At least we will have Kadri for two more years.. It's good trade for us.

 

[Avs_19]

Okay, Kerfoot was more of a cap dump and I am happy we got rid of him. Basically Barrie for Kadri+3rd. At least we will have Kadri for two more years.. It's good trade for us.

I'd say it's a great trade for us because Kadri fills a huge need on the team and is on a great contract. I also don't believe they were going to pay Barrie.

 

[shadow1]

Burakovsky makes $3.25M, and will probably get $4.5-5M or so after this year. He's on pace for 65 points. 8 less than Nylander at nearly $7M.

Donskoi similarly is on a 45 point pace over 82 games, and is making $3.9M.

You can find a decent 50ish point winger if you're smart about it. Finding a second point per game center is much harder to do, and can be the type of thing to put you over the edge.

Yeah, I get the logic behind it, but they haven't been able to find that edge. Their defense is so bad and it's because of how much they're spending on their forwards.

My point is that Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri - and Kapanen & Hyman, who they smartly acquired and developed themselves - was already one of the best young forward cores in the league. If they had used Tavares' $11M to surround Morgan Reilly with a better cast around him I think the Leafs are a better team.

I obviously have no way to prove this, but I just wanted to elaborate on my original statement.

(As a side note: Don't get me wrong - I love Burakovsky. I supported the trade from the beginning. But the man is shooting at 19%; I don't think we can count on 65(ish) points every season. Similarly, Donskoi had an insane shooting percentage earlier in the year and that's normalized - he only has 4 points in his last 26 games. By comparison, Nylander is in the midst of his third 60+ point season in the last four years.)

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah, I get the logic behind it, but they haven't been able to find that edge. Their defense is so bad and it's because of how much they're spending on their forwards.

My point is that Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri - and Kapanen & Hyman, who they smartly acquired and developed themselves - was already one of the best young forward cores in the league. If they had used Tavares' $11M to surround Morgan Reilly with a better cast around him I think the Leafs are a better team.

I obviously have no way to prove this, but I just wanted to elaborate on my original statement.

(As a side note: Don't get me wrong - I love Burakovsky. I supported the trade from the beginning. But the man is shooting at 19%; I don't think we can count on 65(ish) points every season. Similarly, Donskoi had an insane shooting percentage earlier in the year and that's normalized - he only has 4 points in his last 26 games. By comparison, Nylander is in the midst of his third 60+ point season in the last four years.)

Totally agree on the Leafs defense. That's why they should have traded Nylander for a two way defenseman. Or Kadri and Nylander both for two way defenseman. They didn't need another OFD like Barrie with Reilly on the team.

Bura may be playing above his head this year (hard to tell) but even if he was just a 45-50 point winger, I think that was in line with what I was saying. He'd be even cheaper in the off season too, and give them even more cap space to work with.

I think the Leafs just made the same mistake the Avs made by ignoring the defensive ability of their blueline, thinking their offense would make up for it.