Proposal: COL & NYR

Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by Perratrooper, Oct 25, 2018.

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  1. Perratrooper

    Perratrooper Registered User

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    Colorado needs secondary scoring bad, have collected some decent assets and have created one of the top 5 lines in the league.

    The Rangers are in the midst of a rebuild/re-tool.

    Proposal:
    To Colorado:
    Mika Zibanead
    Kevin Hayes

    To NewYork:
    Tyson Jost
    Colorado 2019 first (top 10 protected)*
    Colorado 2019 second
    Colorado 2020 second
    *Colorado 2019 third if pick moves to 2020

    Close, way off, thoughts?
     
  2. Hawaii Honu

    Hawaii Honu Registered User

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    I think from the rangers perspective the value is close. I think they can get a late 1st round + minor assets for both Zuccarello and Hayes individually. Gorton probably says yes but not before asking every team in the league to see if a better offer exists

    Edit: I’m dyslexic and can’t read. Assumed you were talking about Zuccarello not Zibanejad. Rangers pass as Zibanejad should be part of the core moving forward
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
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  3. Perratrooper

    Perratrooper Registered User

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    Yeah I figured maybe adding a small plus (potential bottom 6) player, to really sweeten it, but I hoped the likely extra third would do the trick.
     
  4. Charlie Conway

    Charlie Conway Oh man, it's my mom.

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    This is Zibanejad and Hayes.

    In this trade, we're basically sending both our first and second line centers. Hayes is a pending UFA, but Zibanejad is signed to a very team-friendly deal.

    As a Ranger fan, I would say no to this. In my opinion, Zibanejad fits into the rebuild plan as a pretty young player at 25, and it seems like he's well-trusted by coaching staff. If he can stay healthy, he'd be a consistent 50-pt center. I like Jost, but I don't think the value is quite there for us sending two guys who are capable of ~45 points each.
     
  5. Jayan

    Jayan NYR fanatic

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    How about Hayes + Vesey instead and you can keep your 2nds
     
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  6. pld459666

    pld459666 Registered User

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    First thought is if you want both out top 1-2 centers that 1st round pick protection has to go, completely.

    This is the Colorado pick, not the Ottawa pick which is likely to be in the 20s after solidifying your center position.

    We would need additional prospect like Jost instead of the picks.

    Someone like Connor Timmins comes to mind.

    Jost, Timmins, Avs 1st, 2nd (both in the 2019 draft) and 2nd in 2020.

    Even then I think we could do better by separating Hayes and Mika
     
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  7. Shootertooter

    Shootertooter Registered User

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    I don't think the return is enough for the NYR's top 2 C's. The Avs 1st is likely to be a 20-ish pick. The Sens pick would likely be required for Mika. I could see a first and a prospect for Hayes........this isn't enough for both and the protection on the Av's first seems unnecessary. I think the Rangers do better in separate deals.
     
  8. Bubba Thudd

    Bubba Thudd 2 more beers, please!

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    Just wait and bid for Hayes as UFA
     
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  9. SlapshotTheMovie

    SlapshotTheMovie Registered User

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    The value is close surprisingly but as someone said no need for the protection since its not otts pick. Also this completely guts NYR. So even though its close it wouldn't be good long term for NYR to do this. Not unless zucc was getting moved out for somene else who could step into a top 6 c spot.
     
  10. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    kudos on a good offer
    however, to prevail it must be the best overall bid, and that seems no, tho you may be able to correct that.

    without detailing too much right now but to give you courtesy of informative response:

    I see:
    Zib 5.35 x 4, Namest. 4 x 2, Spooner 4 x 2, DeAngelo .863,333m elc expiring, Staal, 5.7 x 3 at half = 2.85, NYR 2019 2nd, TB 2019 2nd which can morph into 1st
    total cap 17.063,333
    for
    Sabres 2019 and 2021 1sts, unprotected, + two conditional 2019 1sts from SJS and SLB as is which conditions may roll the picks into years later than 2019 + Bogosian 5.3ish reduced to 4.0; + cap dumps Moulson, 5.0 expiring + Hunwick 2.5 x 2 + Beaulieu 2.4 expiring . Total cap 13.9
    Cap dif is Rangers save, Sabes eat 3.163,333 which is doable as Buffalo is a hair under 6.5m cap space.

    Again, no time now to do all the pros and cons to nth degree, but I think that is better use of Zib than what you offered. btw, that is why this is relevant to this thread.
    {consider those late 1sts as possibly used with a + for Nylander, so off the table]

    As to Hayes/Zuc, thus also pertinent to this thread
    Andersson .894,166m elc just started + Hayes 5.175 at half expiring = 2.5875 + Zuc 4.5 expiring at half = 2.25, total cap = 5.731666 for Hughes unsigned, will be elc + 2019 Van 1sr + acceptable cap dump Derek Dorsett 2.65m expiring. Dif is 3.081666, which Van can eat since it has over 9.2m in cap savings.

    that looks like better use of Zuc.
    I am expecting Hayes to do a Chapman return to Yankees thing here, go and play hard as a rental, then come back and do something around 5.2m for 5 years, that ballpark.

    'nucks want to get a move on now [why Linden left, instead of slow build?], and this does that.

    ---------------

    for years, I lusted to get MacKinnon even if reasonably overpaying was min prerequisite, just to bookend with Kreider.

    Now if the right deal is on the table, shoe on the other foot, etc, it may be time to consider:
    {assume my above deals get done and those pieces off the table}

    Kreider
    Skjei
    Ronning + Gettinger [elc scrubs who hustle and will compete for 4W]
    Rangers 2020 1st AND 2021 1st

    for

    Ottawa 2019 1st
    Meloche
    Makar
    Joost
    acceptable cap dump(s)

    Although I get Kreider likes it here and knows he is loved by the fans, I think odds are better than 50/50 if you pay him decent, he stays to play with MacKinnon. Skjei is long term known commodity at decent $.

    MacK may stay at pivot, or with the right chemistry, with right alternate 1C, moves to 1RW, making best bookend pairing Ws in the league with CK. If he moves to W, with Kreider at 1LW, Landeskog moves down 1. That is a lot of the boost you are looking for. Plus the two scrubs I added lighting a fire under the ass of the bottom 6 you have now. Cut the chaff. Skjei likewise makes someone available for other F upgrade. You are good to go.

    And while this would theoretically expedite the Rangers rebuild, we are doing it to get upgrade potential. But still, while we hold on to our own 2019 1st, the 2020 and 2021 1sts, unprotected, is substantial concession not to be sneezed at.

    M&M are not currently on your team. Makar is committed to college obligation. NY can live with the timetable, and getting value now works for Colorado.

    The Sens 1st is a major give, but post Duchene, Avs can afford it and should go there if they wanna win now.

    That works for Rangers who presumably increase their odds for a difference maker in the current draft.
    This year means zero for NY, it is about setting up for next season and beyond.
    Yeah, we good too.

    Deal?
     
  11. Weltschmerz

    Weltschmerz Registered User

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    wonder why capfriendly has them at 1,390,510
     
  12. Savant

    Savant Registered User

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    Are we sure Jost is good?
     
  13. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    Good catch, I haven't updated that; it was a recent #.
    However, I believe some tweaking can make that do-able still.
     
  14. Rangers743

    Rangers743 #freechytil

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    I think if Mika moves the Ottawa picks needs to be coming back.
     
  15. bernmeister

    bernmeister Registered User

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    We are not.
    He has talent, but while early, not yet translated to NHL.
    He is not a cap dump bust yet, not at all, but he is also not a given, proven commodity either.
     
  16. GAGLine

    GAGLine Registered User Sponsor

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    There's no way Zib is included unless Ottawa's pick is included, IMO, and even then, it's debatable given how Ottawa has done so far.

    Zib is 25 and has 3 years left on a good contract after this year. I doubt the Rangers will be looking to move him for futures unless younger centers make him expendable. Maybe if we win the lottery and draft Hughes, but even then, the trade wouldn't happen until next year some time, at the earliest. On top of being a good center, he's right handed, which we always seem to have in short supply. Chytil, Andersson and Howden are all left handed. Hughes is left handed (assuming we get him).

    Hayes is definitely available, but I don't think Zib is at all.
     
  17. Mac n Gs

    Mac n Gs Gorton plz

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    There’s really just a lot easier of a package to build around for Hayes, especially since it’s going to cost a lot to get Zibanejad.

    Idk why Kamenev has been a healthy scratch, but I’d guess a realistic starting point would be something around him+Meloche. Ideally I’d like to see something worked around Jost, but that most likely isn’t happening. Gorton and Sakic already have made one deal last year, and the Rangers have been trying to trade with Colorado going back to the MDZ for Barrie days.
     
  18. Perratrooper

    Perratrooper Registered User

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    ................... what?

    Bern I get you not wanting someone to out Bern you, but I thought my trade was atleast close. Not to mention you derail the thread a bit by posting three separate trades. I get wanting to show how Zib and Hayes can have more value splitting them up, but throwing trades that no team except NYR would do does not help move the conversation along, but rather splits it into eight different directions.

    I’m going to stay to my original proposal and move towards just targeting Zib as people have said more value this way. Also to the people who say we don’t need top 10 protection on our pick because we’ll be drafting in the 20’s, I respectfully disagree.

    So to help find tune the offer:
    Jost
    Colorado 2019 first (top 10) protected
    Colorado 2019 second
     
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  19. Lays

    Lays Vitaly Swagtsov

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    No from the Rangers
    I’d prefer to keep Zib but Hayes can be available for a top 10 protected 1st+a decent piece
    Zib would cost a lot
     
  20. Patagonia

    Patagonia Keep Whining

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    I think this would be a reasonable offer for Zib. There is no need for Hayes since he will be a UFA after this season. Interestingly, an article about trading Zid was posted earlier this morning.

    New York Rangers Should Test Market of Mika Zibanejad
     
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  21. GAGLine

    GAGLine Registered User Sponsor

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    That isn't getting you Zibanejad.
     
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  22. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    At C no. At wing I’m almost completely sure he’d turn into a Parise lite good 2 way guy good for ~50 pts a season.
     
  23. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    Also I’d take the lottery protection of the pick if that’d get it done, or maybe just do like top 2 protection or something like that.
     
  24. SingnBluesOnBroadway

    SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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    It's really not.
     
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  25. Trxjw

    Trxjw Retired.

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    The Rangers got a top-10 pick for Stepan. Not sure there's an incentive to move Zibanejad for less.
     

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