OT: COE Thread - What to do with Northlands

[Replacement*]

In all fairness to Northlands if they know nothing about Soccer then maybe that's why they didn't pitch the idea. They are already having issues running things they are suppose to be experts in.

Tell me about it.

They want to expand the Hall D arena from 4k to 6K so that they can have a bigger facility to hold no events in. To my knowledge the only act they have had in there in the past year is the "Peking acrobats" a cheap sideshow they had during their cheap carny K Days. Plus that that facility reminds one of what facilities probably look like behind the former iron curtain. What a depressing, dismal arena.

Maybe an amalgam of Northlands, and EEDC (Shaw Conference Center) would work better as SCC is used for concerts which might be better housed at Northlands. Makes sense that the two inept orgs work together.

 

[joestevens29]

Tell me about it.

They want to expand the Hall D arena from 4k to 6K so that they can have a bigger facility to hold no events in. To my knowledge the only act they have had in there in the past year is the "Peking acrobats" a cheap sideshow they had during their cheap carny K Days. Plus that that facility reminds one of what facilities probably look like behind the former iron curtain. What a depressing, dismal arena.

Maybe an amalgam of Northlands, and EEDC (Shaw Conference Center) would work better as SCC is used for concerts which might be better housed at Northlands. Makes sense that the two inept orgs work together.

They use to have the College Rodeo too, but ya not a lot.

Like Iveson has said, Northlands has to figure out what they want to be. They then need to show an actual business plan showing they aren't a bunch of clowns.

As for the EEDC-Northlands partnership that's kinda what Iveson has also hinted at. To be honest I don't really know much about EEDC. I think the only reason people actually know a lot about Northlands is because of the new arena which has exposed Northlands.

What is EEDC getting that we really don't know about?

 

[Replacement*]

They use to have the College Rodeo too, but ya not a lot.

Like Iveson has said, Northlands has to figure out what they want to be. They then need to show an actual business plan showing they aren't a bunch of clowns.

As for the EEDC-Northlands partnership that's kinda what Iveson has also hinted at. To be honest I don't really know much about EEDC. I think the only reason people actually know a lot about Northlands is because of the new arena which has exposed Northlands.

What is EEDC getting that we really don't know about?

afaik the decades of tax money gone to pay for SCC and the more recent expansion. Taxpayers were still paying for the mortgage of the original facility when it expanded. Cost timeline indefinite at this point. pay pay pay

 

[joestevens29]

afaik the decades of tax money gone to pay for SCC and the more recent expansion. Taxpayers were still paying for the mortgage of the original facility when it expanded. Cost timeline indefinite at this point. pay pay pay

The question is am I getting hit with taxes 3 times the way the Expo center has over the past? Is it just pay or a pay pay pay

 

[Oil Gauge]

Indeed. Edmonton is a a very good potential market for soccer and everything from our demographics, Soccer history, soccer participation, soccer attending of past events etc suggests this.

Clarke Park as just mentioned is not a proper facility for Soccer (or anything) and really can't even be described as a facility.

Whatever happened to the "build it and they will come" philosophy. Any major sports club from the Esks to the Oilers etc would not exist if professional level of support needed to be established PRIOR to building facilities. To wit the most people that had ever watched a hockey game in the Edmonton area was 1K before Edmonton Gardens was built. 5K before the Edmonton Coliseum was built. The most people that had ever watched a football game before Clarke stadium was built was around 1K. These weren't big attendance sports here either until befitting facilities existed.

In the case of Northlands the facility is already there. All they would have to do is remove the track, place a soccer pitch close to the stands and open the gates. I would bet a Soccer club, even FC Edmonton, in the lower tier NASL would attract 5-10K out of the gate. They could also host internationals, friendlies, etc.

I wonder how much the Faths were even consulted on this.

They would most likely build a 4 pitch facility if they put in a soccer centre, and the current seating arrangement would be major overkill for a soccer centre. I think your vision is deeply flawed, there is no way they need that much seating for indoor soccer.

These soccer centres are typically just a big warehouse with 4 pitches inside with dressing rooms and showers in between them and limited seating above the dressing rooms. They're are already 3 or 4 in the city now, not sure if more are needed.

 

[drewshoo]

They would most likely build a 4 pitch facility if they put in a soccer centre, and the current seating arrangement would be major overkill for a soccer centre. I think your vision is deeply flawed, there is no way they need that much seating for indoor soccer.

These soccer centres are typically just a big warehouse with 4 pitches inside with dressing rooms and showers in between them and limited seating above the dressing rooms. They're are already 3 or 4 in the city now, not sure if more are needed.

I think replacement is talking about an outdoor facility. Which would align more with what seems to be needed in the city.

 

[Oil Gauge]

I think replacement is talking about an outdoor facility. Which would align more with what seems to be needed in the city.

He was replying to a comment about a soccer centre replacing the race track, ie an indoor facility.

 

[DoyleG]

He was replying to a comment about a soccer centre replacing the race track, ie an indoor facility.

It can be either indoor or outdoor.

 

[Replacement*]

I think replacement is talking about an outdoor facility. Which would align more with what seems to be needed in the city.

Precisely. Obvious since I was referencing FC Edmonton specifically.


Why would anybody on Earth advocate an indoor soccer facility at the track when outdoor stands and facility are already in place? Oh, Northlands, to burn through some more copious loans.

Watch, in this city I bet they stand by and watch while the racetrack facility/bleachers are demolished and then build something similar on the same site.

This should be such an obvious solution to FC Edmontons needs. This would be a turnkey operation for MLS or NASL soccer. Just bring the pitch and install it on site.


But that wouldn't cost countless millions..

 

[Oil Gauge]

It can be either indoor or outdoor.

Obviously in Edmonton its more sensible to build soccer centres as indoor facilities. Not much of a market for Outdoor indoor soccer in the winter in edmonton.

 

[rboomercat90]

Obviously in Edmonton its more sensible to build soccer centres as indoor facilities. Not much of a market for Outdoor indoor soccer in the winter in edmonton.

So you're saying there is no need for outdoor soccer facilities, whether it be a small stadium or multiple fields, in Edmonton because we have snow on the ground for four months a year? Not too sure many would agree with you.

 

[Replacement*]

So you're saying there is no need for outdoor soccer facilities, whether it be a small stadium or multiple fields, in Edmonton because we have snow on the ground for four months a year? Not too sure many would agree with you.

Yep, by that logic Commonwealth stadium and the CFL isn't required.

I don't get it. Northlands park with its intact bleachers would be a perfect viewing area for NASL or MLS soccer and has ample room for pitch, North bleacher erection, etc.

As stated this is a turnkey opportunity. Could also house outdoor concerts, things like Sonicboom just going on block away, etc. Instead it will sit empty until the dynamite comes..

 

[Cloned]

Tell me about it.

They want to expand the Hall D arena from 4k to 6K so that they can have a bigger facility to hold no events in. To my knowledge the only act they have had in there in the past year is the "Peking acrobats" a cheap sideshow they had during their cheap carny K Days. Plus that that facility reminds one of what facilities probably look like behind the former iron curtain. What a depressing, dismal arena.

Maybe an amalgam of Northlands, and EEDC (Shaw Conference Center) would work better as SCC is used for concerts which might be better housed at Northlands. Makes sense that the two inept orgs work together.

You know I've been searching for a long time for a phrase to describe that place, and I think you've nailed it right here.

There was just something about that place I couldn't quite put my finger on when I visited it as a youngster during K-Days. I remember walking in there and feeling like "this isn't quite Edmonton, heck this isn't quite North America."

Now I know why.

 

[Replacement*]

You know I've been searching for a long time for a phrase to describe that place, and I think you've nailed it right here.

There was just something about that place I couldn't quite put my finger on when I visited it as a youngster during K-Days. I remember walking in there and feeling like "this isn't quite Edmonton, heck this isn't quite North America."

Now I know why.

haha. Its an abysmal facility. Of the type you wish they never built. I never quite get comfortable in there and thankfully most shows are short there (K days shows) It reminds one of what a prison arena would look like if they made such things.

Its so absolutely a joyless place. A warehouse disguised as an arena. Built for no apparent reason by an org with 5 year plans...

The only reason the arena itself hasn't gotten worse press is it was never quite evaluated on its own. afairc it opened along with the rest of the agricom which opened up the area to tiresome trade shows that people devoured ever since. The trade Halls remain busy enough. The arena, short of a Junior hockey stint, never was.

 

[Oil Gauge]

So you're saying there is no need for outdoor soccer facilities, whether it be a small stadium or multiple fields, in Edmonton because we have snow on the ground for four months a year? Not too sure many would agree with you.

No, the tweet was about building a soccer centre in place of the track. A soccer centre is for indoor soccer. I'm talking about that, not outdoor facilities.

In a place where it snows 4 to 6 months out of the year I think it makes more sense to have indoor soccer fields indoors, not outdoors. Especially since the indoor soccer season is mostly during the winter, right?

 

[DoyleG]

No, the tweet was about building a soccer centre in place of the track. A soccer centre is for indoor soccer. I'm talking about that, not outdoor facilities.

In a place where it snows 4 to 6 months out of the year I think it makes more sense to have indoor soccer fields indoors, not outdoors. Especially since the indoor soccer season is mostly during the winter, right?

It funny that people think that one world can screw up a persons thinking.

Just because it say "Centre" doesn't mean indoors. Get the hockey think out of your head.

Now I can see why soccer has such a hard time in Edmonton to begin with.

 

[Oil Gauge]

It funny that people think that one world can screw up a persons thinking.

Just because it say "Centre" doesn't mean indoors. Get the hockey think out of your head.

Now I can see why soccer has such a hard time in Edmonton to begin with.

This has nothing to do with hockey.

This is a soccer center

Aka an indoor soccer facility.

 

[SerbianEagle]

Yep, by that logic Commonwealth stadium and the CFL isn't required.

I don't get it. Northlands park with its intact bleachers would be a perfect viewing area for NASL or MLS soccer and has ample room for pitch, North bleacher erection, etc.

As stated this is a turnkey opportunity. Could also house outdoor concerts, things like Sonicboom just going on block away, etc. Instead it will sit empty until the dynamite comes..

I think Edmonton should quit messing around with minor leagues and shoot for an MLS franchise. It would do well, it would be supported. Edmonton, generally has nice summers which are perfect for outdoor sports, and you can definitely play outdoors in April and October as well. Its been done.

There is definitely room to build a really really nice soccer only stadium at Northlands Park. One of the stands is already done, just refurbish it, and build another on the opposite side and two smaller behind the goals and you have a 20-25k stadium, which could even host the National team games from time to time.

The only problem...ownership...You better believe that Katz wants to own every pro-sport franchise in town and there is no way an MLS team gets into Edmonton without his involvement. So, how does one work around that?

 

[joestevens29]

I think Edmonton should quit messing around with minor leagues and shoot for an MLS franchise. It would do well, it would be supported. Edmonton, generally has nice summers which are perfect for outdoor sports, and you can definitely play outdoors in April and October as well. Its been done.

There is definitely room to build a really really nice soccer only stadium at Northlands Park. One of the stands is already done, just refurbish it, and build another on the opposite side and two smaller behind the goals and you have a 20-25k stadium, which could even host the National team games from time to time.

The only problem...ownership...You better believe that Katz wants to own every pro-sport franchise in town and there is no way an MLS team gets into Edmonton without his involvement. So, how does one work around that?

The latest figures show expansion would cost upwards of 200mil. Highly doubt the Fath Group is dropping that much money.

So who actually has the money to get one here in the first place? Don't know that Katz is a hurdle anyway. The only hurdle was suppose to be for hockey I thought.

 

[SerbianEagle]

The latest figures show expansion would cost upwards of 200mil. Highly doubt the Fath Group is dropping that much money.

So who actually has the money to get one here in the first place? Don't know that Katz is a hurdle anyway. The only hurdle was suppose to be for hockey I thought.

This is a good question, and I don't have an answer. How fat is the "Fath" group? I see more and more of their trucks around Edmonton?

Going back to Katz though, perhaps he'd offer Northlands an olive branch and use their stadium for his team? Likely, he is the only one rich enough to afford the $200 US franchise fee (which is ridiculous btw). For a soccer only stadium, that's a pretty nice location and easily accessible from all sides.

 

[joestevens29]

This is a good question, and I don't have an answer. How fat is the "Fath" group? I see more and more of their trucks around Edmonton?

Going back to Katz though, perhaps he'd offer Northlands an olive branch and use their stadium for his team? Likely, he is the only one rich enough to afford the $200 US franchise fee (which is ridiculous btw). For a soccer only stadium, that's a pretty nice location and easily accessible from all sides.

You're glossy over a very key point. 200mil for an expansion team of a sport that has never worked in this City other than one off major events.

It's a huge risk. This isn't lets throw some minor money on the Cracker Cats and if people show up they show up. This is a major business decision that can cripple you financially.

 

[DoyleG]

This has nothing to do with hockey.

This is a soccer center

Aka an indoor soccer facility.

This is a soccer center as well...

and so is this

aka what happens when you thin in the real world, not in ignorant narrow mindedness.

 

[DoyleG]

The latest figures show expansion would cost upwards of 200mil. Highly doubt the Fath Group is dropping that much money.

So who actually has the money to get one here in the first place? Don't know that Katz is a hurdle anyway. The only hurdle was suppose to be for hockey I thought.

Katz is more aiming to get a better facility for FCE and not deal with minor groups trying to kick up a fuss (ie. Minor and Senior football complaing when the city decided to replace the worn turf). You would only need a tenth of that amount to build a stadium with expansion capacity.

 

[SerbianEagle]

EDSA (or whatever its called) needs to also get a grip regarding certain things. They have always had this idea that a pro team in town has to listen to their demans and have a certain number of local players on the team. That simply cannot fly in pro ranks. Not even 2nd tier where FC Edmonton is playing right now.

I know that rule of theirs made life difficult for the Vignjevic led indoor Drillers and the subsequent outdoor team that didn't survive for long. Fath group is doing well so far with FC Edmonton, and I don't know if EDSA still has their fingers in there or not, but for pro soccer to thrive in Edmonton, these organizations need to stay away.

As for the $200 mil expansion fee for MLS. Its way too high and I think MLS might just be thinking a little to high of themselves currently. We'll see though...

 

[DoyleG]

EDSA (or whatever its called) needs to also get a grip regarding certain things. They have always had this idea that a pro team in town has to listen to their demans and have a certain number of local players on the team. That simply cannot fly in pro ranks. Not even 2nd tier where FC Edmonton is playing right now.

Well, they've done a good job at resisting that pressure by running their own youth programs.