Player Discussion Cody Ceci Part II

[NyQuil]

I'd be interested in our Corsi when we have a lead and when we don't.

Awhile back, I remember someone around here noticing a lot of games where we outshot the opposition and lost.

Not much of a surprise since the losing team tends to press more for offence.

 

[ekarlsson65]

I'd be interested in our Corsi when we have a lead and when we don't.

Awhile back, I remember someone around here noticing a lot of games where we outshot the opposition and lost.

Not much of a surprise since the losing team tends to press more for offence.

They use score-adjusted factors to account for when teams are trailing and when teams are leading.

 

[Viletho]

I'd be interested in our Corsi when we have a lead and when we don't.

Awhile back, I remember someone around here noticing a lot of games where we outshot the opposition and lost.

Not much of a surprise since the losing team tends to press more for offence.

I think it was me asking someone to post a graph about the win/lose ratio when we outshot or get outshoot.

We had more win getting outshoot.

 

[ekarlsson65]

the eye test and stats are kind of similar. in one instance you need to understand what you see (with an obvious bit of subjectivity) and in the stats instance you need to interpret and infer from the data.

posting corsi to suggest he had a bad game when Ceci was buried in his own end on D zone starts and playing against JT kinda suggests you struggle with both.

I'm just confused as to what he did well? He got tough minutes? He got alot of defensive zone starts? Is that all?

 

[Viletho]

I'm just confused as to what he did well? He got tough minutes? He got alot of defensive zone starts? Is that all?

Just watch the game.. he was in JT's face all game, when it wasn't Pageau.

Not giving space to someone isn't measurable by a stat. You won't find an Inch% given to a player.. you have to watch to game.. that's why you bringing corsi, for that game, is laughable.

Of course JT's going to have some chance, he's that good and superior to Ceci. But he did one hell of a job.

 

[topshelf15]

Ceci even getting blamed now, for the random variables that the stats cant possibly predict.This board just makes me laugh at times

 

[topshelf15]

I'm just confused as to what he did well? He got tough minutes? He got alot of defensive zone starts? Is that all?

And we won with a shutout ,there is your answer

 

[Micklebot]

I'm just confused as to what he did well? He got tough minutes? He got alot of defensive zone starts? Is that all?

Ceci, Phaneuf, Pyatt, Pageau and Ryan worked as a group to shutdown and limit any strong chances by the Tavares line. They as a group spent about 11 5v5 mins matched up against the oppositions top line (a line that got a total of about 14:30 mins), and got the better scoring chances while both were out there.

Shutting down that line is a huge part of why we won the game. The group of Ceci, Phaneuf, Pyatt, Pageau and Ryan never gave that line a chance to create any momentum, they just kept them to the outside all night. Ceci was a part of that effort.

 

[topshelf15]

Ceci, Phaneuf, Pyatt, Pageau and Ryan worked as a group to shutdown and limit any strong chances by the Tavares line. They as a group spent about 11 5v5 mins matched up against the oppositions top line (a line that got a total of about 14:30 mins), and got the better scoring chances while both were out there.

Shutting down that line is a huge part of why we won the game. The group of Ceci, Phaneuf, Pyatt, Pageau and Ryan never gave that line a chance to create any momentum, they just kept them to the outside all night. Ceci was a part of that effort.

Unsung is the word people seem to be forgetting here.He works his tail off every shift, seems to have the trust of the coaches .Also strikes me as a low key team first player.But we should replace him with Wideman because he can score on the PP

 

[JD1]

good work boys! finally some sanity showing up here wrt to ceci.

You don't understand what he did well ek65? JT, his line, and his team got shut out. And it wasn't just a shut out, as far as shut outs go it was an easy night. It was a solid effort and Ceci was a huge part of that.

And it was a huge momentum game too. Puts us on a little streak and it was against a team, in the words of Bobby Ryan, that was coming in hot. 7-1-2 in their last 10 and pushing for a playoff spot and they got shut down.

And that's the problem with advanced stats. I'm sure you can find others apart from Corsi that suggest Ceci had a bad game, in reality he and that Pageau line had a great game.

 

[ekarlsson65]

And we won with a shutout ,there is your answer

I don't really agree with the line of thinking that Anderson gets a SO and all is forgiven, a goalie can make 45 saves, it doesn't mean his Dcore shut the opposition down.

 

[topshelf15]

So that was because of Ceci and Dion? So all is forgiven because Anderson played well?

But is it Ceci fault when the forwards dont score or the goalie cant make a save??You are running around in circles.Ceci has done pretty good for the youngest defender on the team, with one of the most important defensive roles .Yet all you seem to want to do is find fault with his game to self gratify your opinion

 

[ekarlsson65]

But is it Ceci fault when the forwards dont score or the goalie cant make a save??You are running around in circles.Ceci has done pretty good for the youngest defender on the team, with one of the most important defensive roles .Yet all you seem to want to do is find fault with his game to self gratify your opinion

No it isn't, it's his job to shut the opposition down, deny them scoring chances and attempt to move the puck towards his F to create some kind of offense that alleviates the pressure on their defense. I've said this many times I wish they would swap Wideman and Ceci for about 20 games. I don't really see what he's done well, he's a terrible skater, he loses puck battles often in the defensive zone, he gets caught out of position fairly often. I'm not saying I want him benched but I would like to definitely see a role reversal for a decent amount of time.

 

[topshelf15]

No it isn't, it's his job to shut the opposition down, deny them scoring chances and attempt to move the puck towards his F to create some kind of offense that alleviates the pressure on their defense. I've said this many times I wish they would swap Wideman and Ceci for about 20 games. I don't really see what he's done well, he's a terrible skater, he loses puck battles often in the defensive zone, he gets caught out of position fairly often. I'm not saying I want him benched but I would like to definitely see a role reversal for a decent amount of time.

We are in the playoffs,while having one of the better GA we have had in a long while , with the youngest defender playing this role.Why again are fixing something that isnt broken ??If anything getting someone other than Stone to actually show up in every game up front ,is far more an issue.And is the root cause of team failings

 

[ekarlsson65]

We are in the playoffs,while having one of the better GA we have had in a long while , with the youngest defender playing this role.Why again are fixing something that isnt broken ??If anything getting someone other than Stone to actually show up in every game up front ,is far more an issue.And is the root cause of team failings

Oh there's plenty of holes and issues:

- Ryan is not a competent top 6 FWD
- Brassard is not scoring enough (but i think that will come he's an excellent possession guy)
- 4th line does nothing (Pyatt-Kelly-Lazar have been pretty brutal)
- 2nd pairing issue with Ceci
- Claesson/Wideman have been a far better pairing than Boro/Wideman

Hey maybe Boucher is onto something with the 7D usage

It's tough to really add when you're locked through an internal budget and you have to save $ to resign Dzingel, Turris, Stone, Ceci (if that's the case), Anderson, Condon, Pageau all within the next 2 years.

I don't exactly see where they could add a good player without $ going out that doesn't involve paying a premium to do so.

 

[topshelf15]

Good forwards can make a average defense look great ,and vice versa.We have a very good top 6 ,better than most in the confrence.But what we lack is up front ,dont understand why we feel the need to bash on the defense .When they have all done a very solid job in spite of the lack of game breakers we have up front

 

[topshelf15]

Oh there's plenty of holes and issues:

- Ryan is not a competent top 6 FWD
- Brassard is not scoring enough (but i think that will come he's an excellent possession guy)
- 4th line does nothing (Pyatt-Kelly-Lazar have been pretty brutal)
- 2nd pairing issue with Ceci
- Claesson/Wideman have been a far better pairing than Boro/Wideman

Hey maybe Boucher is onto something with the 7D usage

It's tough to really add when you're locked through an internal budget and you have to save $ to resign Dzingel, Turris, Stone, Ceci (if that's the case), Anderson, Condon, Pageau all within the next 2 years.

I don't exactly see where they could add a good player without $ going out that doesn't involve paying a premium to do so.

Read my next post ,that is the entire issue with the team .

 

[ekarlsson65]

? The previous one

 

[Anidalife]

good work boys! finally some sanity showing up here wrt to ceci.

You don't understand what he did well ek65? JT, his line, and his team got shut out. And it wasn't just a shut out, as far as shut outs go it was an easy night. It was a solid effort and Ceci was a huge part of that.

And it was a huge momentum game too. Puts us on a little streak and it was against a team, in the words of Bobby Ryan, that was coming in hot. 7-1-2 in their last 10 and pushing for a playoff spot and they got shut down.

And that's the problem with advanced stats. I'm sure you can find others apart from Corsi that suggest Ceci had a bad game, in reality he and that Pageau line had a great game.

Where did this result oriented mentality come from? A shutout doesn't mean a player played well and can't be criticized, just as a loss doesn't mean the end of the world. That's not even considering the sample size of one game.

Most people here are Sens fans, including me. Personally I know I have a bit of blind homerism for sens players. I find myself making excuses for Karlsson's mistakes more often than not, and I never cared much about Spezza's giveaways. So usually it's actually more telling when I don't think someone's doing well on this team, especially after a shutout win.

Ceci made giveaway after giveaway this game, including almost one with 5 seconds left that could have easily broken the shutout if he fumbled the puck maybe half a metre more out of his reach. That's in addition to losing lots of 1on1 matchups/battles. None of this would matter to me either if he hasn't done them in the majority of the games this whole season. He's just generally a step slower than most to reacting to plays.

I've seen the comparisons to Wideman by other posters. I do not think Ceci is worse than Wideman in the absolute sense, but given their roles/icetime/tasks, Wideman is doing better in his role as a 5-6 D than Ceci as a 3-4 D. This doesn't mean I think they should switch ice times, please don't misinterpret it.

Also this is a thread specifically for talking about Ceci, that means both positives and negatives. I don't go around telling people to stop posting positives about Ceci. Why do some people think it's OK to flame people just for having negative opinions about a player?

 

[Viletho]

I don't really agree with the line of thinking that Anderson gets a SO and all is forgiven, a goalie can make 45 saves, it doesn't mean his Dcore shut the opposition down.

And a goalie can make a 45 saves shouthout but none of the shot were difficult to stop.

Last night must have been one of the easiest SO in Anderson's career. He had minimal high scoring chance to stop. That's what we called a good defensive game.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Unsung is the word people seem to be forgetting here.He works his tail off every shift, seems to have the trust of the coaches .Also strikes me as a low key team first player.But we should replace him with Wideman because he can score on the PP

Well to be fair working your tail off isn't the same as working effectively. He works very hard I'll give you that but I am leaning towards his level of effort is due to his inability to read, anticipate a play or make quick decisions to avoid that extra hustle in the first place.

 

[BatherSeason]

Anytime someone says how great Cody Ceci is they should be forced to watch the Tavares highlight again and again. It was embarassing. The excuses in here over that play are hilarious and equally as embarassing as the attempt Ceci made on the play

 

[ekarlsson65]

And a goalie can make a 45 saves shouthout but none of the shot were difficult to stop.

Last night must have been one of the easiest SO in Anderson's career. He had minimal high scoring chance to stop. That's what we called a good defensive game.

So you believe defenseman can influence a goalie's SV%?

 

[BondraTime]

....

 

[Viletho]

So you believe defenseman can influence a goalie's SV%?

A defenceman alone.. it would be VERY minimal. A good defensive structure played by 5 players on the ice, yes.

And those defenceman are the Karlsson of this world.. not the Ceci's.

But last night they played an extremely tight defensive game. And Ceci's was a big part against JT's line, Pageau as well.