Coaching?

[sharski]

what is this new sytem im a casual fan who literally has no idea what all of you are talking about

 

[GoldenSeal]

Why not hire Gallant?

 

[hohosaregood]

what is this new sytem im a casual fan who literally has no idea what all of you are talking about

Winning Play: Not Just Any Win

Pretty pertinent article I would think. Basically what started going right in the 3rd period

 

[Lebanezer]

It's something numerous coaches and players have said so I don't see what's so off about such a statement.

It’s a fine statement, it just skirts the issue. No matter how similar NHL systems may be, there’s still an adjustment period that takes place when a new, albeit similar one is put into place.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It took them like 2.5 months to figure out the Deboer system when he first came in.

Yup and this board did nothing but call for the perpetual inevitable rebuild that never comes... cries of trade Jumbo, trade Patty, Fire PDB, shoot jones into the sun because he was a waste of a 1st round pick in the trade... etc, etc. It's the one thing this place excels at... over reacting like chicken little.

 

[Dicdonya]

Only thing I’ll say about the coaching this early is that I was dumbfounded that Labanc didn’t ride the pine for a while after the STL goal the other night.

The fact that he literally saw the puck loose, going towards the net, in the middle of the ice, and decided to turn away from it despite the fact that there was no shark at all in the vicinity or even skating towards it, boggled my mind.

It’s not even that I am upset at Labanc, even though he made the dumb choice, I’m upset that our coaching has not absolutely hammered the idea of being a “puck hound” or however you want to phrase it into the heads of our players.

That sort of passivity has been noticeable to me in other plays and players already this year and the fact that Labanc went completely undisciplined for that shit-tastic play is very worrying to me.

That being said, it’s still early in Boughners time as our head coach, so I will not call for his head over that, but I certainly didn’t like him any more after seeing Labanc out there like a minute later.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It’s a fine statement, it just skirts the issue. No matter how similar NHL systems may be, there’s still an adjustment period that takes place when a new, albeit similar one is put into place.

The issue is that there's a balance between patience and making excuses. It's a short season and every game is important and system changes isn't really a good excuse. If you're going to use the adjustment period as a solid excuse then the coaches should probably not cycle a bunch of kids in and out of the lineup for the same reason. That's why I don't buy that.

 

[Lebanezer]

The issue is that there's a balance between patience and making excuses. It's a short season and every game is important and system changes isn't really a good excuse. If you're going to use the adjustment period as a solid excuse then the coaches should probably not cycle a bunch of kids in and out of the lineup for the same reason. That's why I don't buy that.

It's not that simple. Boughner needs players to execute the system, if they're having trouble learning it or playing poorly, there have to be consequences, for obvious reasons. It's also important for the reserves to get into games to help them execute and use the system in game situations.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not that simple. Boughner needs players to execute the system, if they're having trouble learning it or playing poorly, there have to be consequences, for obvious reasons. It's also important for the reserves to get into games to help them execute and use the system in game situations.

But but but new system and long layoff. It actually is that simple for both issues. It's simply a noticeable double standard which is why it's a b.s. excuse.

 

[Lebanezer]

But but but new system and long layoff. It actually is that simple for both issues. It's simply a noticeable double standard which is why it's a b.s. excuse.

It's not the simple, even if you say it is. Your opinion about why it's not a valid excuse is not steeped in any kind of insider information. It's a closed-minded approach intimating that you possess the ability to cut through all the bs and strip things down to their core. So you dismissing whatever variables exist to make a definitive statement about what is or is not valid regarding the Sharks and their issues is ridiculous.

 

[WSS11]

Why not hire Gallant?

Million dollar question

 

[one2gamble]

Why not hire Gallant?

because f*** that guy thats why

 

[Barrie22]

Why not hire Gallant?

Why do we want pete deboer v1.0? Do people forget that deboer basically tried to copy gallants system and use it on this roster that is already not made for it?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not the simple, even if you say it is. Your opinion about why it's not a valid excuse is not steeped in any kind of insider information. It's a closed-minded approach intimating that you possess the ability to cut through all the bs and strip things down to their core. So you dismissing whatever variables exist to make a definitive statement about what is or is not valid regarding the Sharks and their issues is ridiculous.

Yeah this is projection, buddy but I appreciate your insistence on making it personal.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Only thing I’ll say about the coaching this early is that I was dumbfounded that Labanc didn’t ride the pine for a while after the STL goal the other night.

The fact that he literally saw the puck loose, going towards the net, in the middle of the ice, and decided to turn away from it despite the fact that there was no shark at all in the vicinity or even skating towards it, boggled my mind.

It’s not even that I am upset at Labanc, even though he made the dumb choice, I’m upset that our coaching has not absolutely hammered the idea of being a “puck hound” or however you want to phrase it into the heads of our players.

It begs the question...what coaching staff doesn't tell their players to hound the puck? The strategy is never going to be "play dispassionately". So, either it is an issue with the player (Labanc is lazy, misread the play, or can't execute as required), the system (Labanc was just executing on a bad system), or the coaching (for, as you say, not being able to hammer the system into the players).

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Only thing I’ll say about the coaching this early is that I was dumbfounded that Labanc didn’t ride the pine for a while after the STL goal the other night.

The fact that he literally saw the puck loose, going towards the net, in the middle of the ice, and decided to turn away from it despite the fact that there was no shark at all in the vicinity or even skating towards it, boggled my mind.

It’s not even that I am upset at Labanc, even though he made the dumb choice, I’m upset that our coaching has not absolutely hammered the idea of being a “puck hound” or however you want to phrase it into the heads of our players.

That sort of passivity has been noticeable to me in other plays and players already this year and the fact that Labanc went completely undisciplined for that shit-tastic play is very worrying to me.

That being said, it’s still early in Boughners time as our head coach, so I will not call for his head over that, but I certainly didn’t like him any more after seeing Labanc out there like a minute later.

I don't disagree that looked particularly bad but BB probably would have had to bench half the team for guys making mistakes. Labanc strikes me as a sensitive type that maybe he didn't want to tank his confidence or turn him into a scape goat for a team problem. Just speculation. Other than that I thought Labanc has been pretty engaged and mostly doing the right thing so far this season. Might be better to keep him feeling positive about his game. As for the play in particular, I winder if within the system his role is always to circle out to the point and it was just an incorrect reaction. I feel like lot's of Labanc errors are of the brainfart variety instead of just not caring.

It begs the question...what coaching staff doesn't tell their players to hound the puck? The strategy is never going to be "play dispassionately". So, either it is an issue with the player (Labanc is lazy, misread the play, or can't execute as required), the system (Labanc was just executing on a bad system), or the coaching (for, as you say, not being able to hammer the system into the players).

I think it was just simply the bolded... At this point I don't think the kid is lazy.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Why do we want pete deboer v1.0? Do people forget that deboer basically tried to copy gallants system and use it on this roster that is already not made for it?

I noticed that. Thing with Gallant is, he builds his system around the skills of his players. Sharks need someone who can look outside of the box and their own ideology on what works and build something that works for the team.

 

[Lebanezer]

Yeah this is projection, buddy but I appreciate your insistence on making it personal.

It’s not intended to be personal at all. Unless you mean that your personal opinion differs from mine.

 

[Alwalys]

Why not hire Gallant?

Bc he a clown

 

[Dicdonya]

It begs the question...what coaching staff doesn't tell their players to hound the puck? The strategy is never going to be "play dispassionately". So, either it is an issue with the player (Labanc is lazy, misread the play, or can't execute as required), the system (Labanc was just executing on a bad system), or the coaching (for, as you say, not being able to hammer the system into the players).

Exactly. One way or another either the Boughner failed to instill that mentality in Labanc, or if he has he did not discipline Labanc for failing HORRIBLY at executing that mentality. That is why I was a bit concerned for our coaching based on the situation.

I don't disagree that looked particularly bad but BB probably would have had to bench half the team for guys making mistakes. Labanc strikes me as a sensitive type that maybe he didn't want to tank his confidence or turn him into a scape goat for a team problem. Just speculation. Other than that I thought Labanc has been pretty engaged and mostly doing the right thing so far this season. Might be better to keep him feeling positive about his game. As for the play in particular, I winder if within the system his role is always to circle out to the point and it was just an incorrect reaction. I feel like lot's of Labanc errors are of the brainfart variety instead of just not caring.

I think it was just simply the bolded... At this point I don't think the kid is lazy.

I agree with you that I do not think Labanc is lazy, and that most likely he misread the situation horribly.

That being said, I do not care if he is sensitive. You F up that bad, you ride the pine for a bit. This was not a run of the mill woopsy, it was a super visible, completely unexplainable f*** up on Labanc's part that lead directly to a goal. That should have been a very easy "teachable" moment for the whole team. You see a loose puck dribbling towards your own goal crease, and skate the hell away from it, you ride the pine.

I think it bothers me a little more than usual because as you said, others have been guilty of similar style plays this year, yet it feels (and I am not on the bench so who knows what was said/done after that play) like there are no consequences whatsoever for that play, which makes me think Boughner does not actually care too much about it. That concerns me

 

[Jongbloed]

Talking about Timo. Is it coaching or better scouting. Would you rather have Timo or Mikko Rantanen?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Exactly. One way or another either the Boughner failed to instill that mentality in Labanc, or if he has he did not discipline Labanc for failing HORRIBLY at executing that mentality. That is why I was a bit concerned for our coaching based on the situation.



I agree with you that I do not think Labanc is lazy, and that most likely he misread the situation horribly.

That being said, I do not care if he is sensitive. You F up that bad, you ride the pine for a bit. This was not a run of the mill woopsy, it was a super visible, completely unexplainable f*** up on Labanc's part that lead directly to a goal. That should have been a very easy "teachable" moment for the whole team. You see a loose puck dribbling towards your own goal crease, and skate the hell away from it, you ride the pine.

I think it bothers me a little more than usual because as you said, others have been guilty of similar style plays this year, yet it feels (and I am not on the bench so who knows what was said/done after that play) like there are no consequences whatsoever for that play, which makes me think Boughner does not actually care too much about it. That concerns me

Except you can't use a one size fits all approach to coaching players. Labanc has been demoted and benched so many times I'm not sure it has the desired effect. My opinion has always been that he isn't that bright so maybe BB is taking a softer touch approach to try and build him up. Again just speculating. It looked bad from the stands but there were other players right there f***ing up their assignments too. They need Labanc to play his best, whatever that is right now to have a chance each night. Might be better to not throw in front of the train 4 games in with a new system.

As far as BB not caring about it... Did you watch the press conference after the game? He cares. He was pissed.

 

[tealzamboni]

Talking about Timo. Is it coaching or better scouting. Would you rather have Timo or Mikko Rantanen?

"Whichever one that's NA or German/Swiss. Otherwise it's not worth a 1st."
-- Scouting Department, Plattner-Wilson industrial complex

 

[tealzamboni]

Are you satisfied with the coaching or is the problem more that some players (Offensive players like most of all Karlsson, and maybe Burns? etc ) have a style of play that leads to these kind of up and down quality games ...

I think part of the inconsistency (even in previous seasons) has to do with slow adjustments. It seems like the front office/analytics/coaching is usually good at planning the first period. Then, in the first intermission, the other team figures it out, adjusts, and really turns the tide. And the Sharks don't always have a good counterpunch and often resort to desperation late in the game. (While this not an absolute pattern for every game, at least this seems like a common storyline.)

And I suspect part of the reliance on analytics/heat map game planning is due to the lack of overall talent. Teams with good talent can keep it simpler and play how they want. The Sharks are basically one top PP unit and a bunch of bottom 6 types. Maybe the coaching can come up with specific tactics to take advantage of the talent they do have. But, it seems like most of their focus is on playing the heat maps and increasing goal probability.

 

[jarr92]

The team will obviously get more familiar with the system. However, what concerns me is the lack of physical effort by most of the team. When your team isn't the most skilled, you have to out-work your competition to win. I see a lot of the same lackadaisical play from the PBD team in the play this year as well. The team doesn't hit, and doesn't out-work their opponents.

Looks at stats for hits (not a perfect stat I acknowledge) the Sharks rank LAST in the league in hits/60. I have watched a lot of NHL this season, and can tell you the stats definitely back up the eye-test on this one. I used to think the problem with effort was PDB's system, but if you look at Vegas they have almost double the hits/60 as the Sharks. The Sharks also hit at a higher rate under PDB than BB. The sample size is very small, but something about watching the team screams "Country-Club" culture to me.