Speculation: Coach Killers?

[Canovin]

They need more Hyman’s. There’s a guy who’s confident in his own game, doesn’t care who he’s playing with (in a good way), and busts his ass on most shifts.

That is actually what we need. Someone who plays hard every shifts, isn't vanilla or quiet as RNH, has a positive attitude win or lose. Honestly I think he should be the captain. I think McDavid could benefit being more of a Hemsky type player. The best player on the team and just who leads the team through his plays.

 

[Soundwave]

That is actually what we need. Someone who plays hard every shifts, isn't vanilla or quiet as RNH, has a positive attitude win or lose. Honestly I think he should be the captain. I think McDavid could benefit being more of a Hemsky type player. The best player on the team and just who leads the team through his plays.

What difference does it make when the D is a total abject failure at actually defending?

 

[McJadeddog]

I dont think this is a Woody problem. This is a personnel problem. They just dont want to do that right now. I bet if we hit 500, they'll start playing that way.

All our D either dont know how to play defence out of sheer incompetence or they all want to play pretend Paul Coffey and leave their partner hanging. It's already bad enough our forwards are more concerned with cheating for offence than to keep puck out of zone.

Well as of today, we aren't even in the playoffs. So if not now, then when?

There is good news though. We all knew that the first 35 or so games of the season were going to be very tough. I made a thread before the season began basically laying out this exact argument and telling people not to panic if we are out of the playoffs by mid-December. Check out these rankings as well for more on this: NHL Strength of Schedule Rankings. Basically we have played the 3rd hardest schedule in the league so far, and have the 2nd easiest schedule the rest of the way. Here is another site that uses pure win% for its rankings (NHL Western Conference Strength of Schedule) we have the 4 hardest so far in western conference, and the 4th easiest the rest of the way. Just showing the same thing, but using a different metric.

This really is true. Just look at the aggregate record of our opponents so far: 191-133-35, for a .581 winning % and a 95 point season pace. To make this even easier, we have played 19 games. Of those 19 we have played teams in the top 10 7 times and teams in the bottom 10 only 4 times. We have, by far, the worst division as well. With San Jose, Vancouver and Anaheim all in the bottom 10. We have played those 3 teams in our own division a grand total of 1 time so far this year. Things don't really start getting better from the schedule until early December either (3 of next 4 against top 20 teams).

We need to tread water for the next 4-5 games here, and then hopefully can go on a bit more of a run for the remainder of the season. We play a lot of teams that are expected to be out of the playoffs after trade deadline, so they will likely be selling off players and be even weaker. I expect the Oilers to have a very good last 25-30 games this year. 9 of our last 20 games are against teams that should be well out of the playoffs by that point, and 5 of the remaining 11 are against teams that are likely bubble teams.

TL/DR: Our schedule has SUCKED so far, but it will suck a lot less later in the year, and that is where we need to make hay if we want to make the playoffs.

 

[Cloned]

That is actually what we need. Someone who plays hard every shifts, isn't vanilla or quiet as RNH, has a positive attitude win or lose. Honestly I think he should be the captain. I think McDavid could benefit being more of a Hemsky type player. The best player on the team and just who leads the team through his plays.

McDavid should probably still be the captain but I think he needs more leadership support.

 

[Canovin]

What difference does it make when the D is a total abject failure at actually defending?

I've seen teams like the Habs get more out of their nothing defense in the past than the Oilers. Just by having good leadership and lockeroom presence will improve the team at every position

 

[Soundwave]

I've seen teams like the Habs get more out of their nothing defense in the past than the Oilers. Just by having good leadership and lockeroom presence will improve the team at every position

For stretches maybe, but consistently? If the Habs were better defensively consistently it's because their D was actually better (like when Weber was still playing).

Vancouver is another case study of the same exact thing ... they have stretches where they can look good but with their D as is, it always falls apart.

Oilers and Canucks are basically the same team, lol, just we have more of our offensive fire power concentrated in two players. They have better "forward depth" but don't have a knock out weapon like a McDrai.

 

[frag2]

Well as of today, we aren't even in the playoffs. So if not now, then when?

There is good news though. We all knew that the first 35 or so games of the season were going to be very tough. I made a thread before the season began basically laying out this exact argument and telling people not to panic if we are out of the playoffs by mid-December. Check out these rankings as well for more on this: NHL Strength of Schedule Rankings. Basically we have played the 3rd hardest schedule in the league so far, and have the 2nd easiest schedule the rest of the way. Here is another site that uses pure win% for its rankings (NHL Western Conference Strength of Schedule) we have the 4 hardest so far in western conference, and the 4th easiest the rest of the way. Just showing the same thing, but using a different metric.

This really is true. Just look at the aggregate record of our opponents so far: 191-133-35, for a .581 winning % and a 95 point season pace. To make this even easier, we have played 19 games. Of those 19 we have played teams in the top 10 7 times and teams in the bottom 10 only 4 times. We have, by far, the worst division as well. With San Jose, Vancouver and Anaheim all in the bottom 10. We have played those 3 teams in our own division a grand total of 1 time so far this year. Things don't really start getting better from the schedule until early December either (3 of next 4 against top 20 teams).

We need to tread water for the next 4-5 games here, and then hopefully can go on a bit more of a run for the remainder of the season. We play a lot of teams that are expected to be out of the playoffs after trade deadline, so they will likely be selling off players and be even weaker. I expect the Oilers to have a very good last 25-30 games this year. 9 of our last 20 games are against teams that should be well out of the playoffs by that point, and 5 of the remaining 11 are against teams that are likely bubble teams.

TL/DR: Our schedule has SUCKED so far, but it will suck a lot less later in the year, and that is where we need to make hay if we want to make the playoffs.

It wouldn't be a problem if this sorry ass team didn't always play down to their competition. Always taking 'weaker' opponents lightly

 

[Cloned]

I was thinking just before the game last night...all the Oilers had to do was keep firing the puck to keep the Devils on their toes and then pounce on rebounds. But nope. Back to the selective shots, McD and Drai must have touches on PP.

I lol when DeBrusk praised Vanacek for 'reading the play' on the PP where McD passes to Drai for a one-timer-FFS, thats like our only play.



Guy still has no desire to defend. And when he does, hes just sprawling on the ice or blocking the goalie most of the time. Just horrible contract. That Nurse Ceci pairing...if Ceci isn't playing 110% and defensively all game, we gonna get caved

It can get pretty infuriating to watch a Nurse ISO during an entire game. Jumping up into the rush before the team has possession, erratic defensive positioning (watch how many times he’s late on reverses by his D partner), getting beat to loose pucks, lazy defensive stick, etc.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I was thinking just before the game last night...all the Oilers had to do was keep firing the puck to keep the Devils on their toes and then pounce on rebounds. But nope. Back to the selective shots, McD and Drai must have touches on PP.

I lol when DeBrusk praised Vanacek for 'reading the play' on the PP where McD passes to Drai for a one-timer-FFS, thats like our only play.

I refuse to believe that a team that went to the western conference 6 months ago forgot how to play hockey.

We have roughly the same group of players and we struggle to stay .500.

 

[frag2]

I refuse to believe that a team that went to the western conference 6 months ago forgot how to play hockey.

We have roughly the same group of players and we struggle to stay .500.

They're just lazy. They all probably think sheer talent wins games, effort optional

It can get pretty infuriating to watch a Nurse ISO during an entire game. Jumping up into the rush before the team has possession, erratic defensive positioning (watch how many times he’s late on reverses by his D partner), getting beat to loose pucks, lazy defensive stick, etc.

If he was 7M, hell maybe even 8M, I can let some of that junk slide. But as the 2nd highest player, that's unacceptable. utter trash

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They're just lazy. They all probably think sheer talent wins games, effort optional

An apt reflection of the people above them. A brass that has never been serious about winning games.

McDavid single-handedly saved a lot of jobs last season and this is how they repay him.

 

[joestevens29]

Get rid of the 11-7 and find guys that can actually play a 12-6, giving them actual minutes.

Hard to be into a game when you are on the bench all the time and tough to find consistency when you have different linemates everytime you step out on the ice.

 

[frag2]

Get rid of the 11-7 and find guys that can actually play a 12-6, giving them actual minutes.

Hard to be into a game when you are on the bench all the time and tough to find consistency when you have different linemates everytime you step out on the ice.

Murray's gotta play for some reason lol

 

[joestevens29]

Murray's gotta play for some reason lol

Personally I don't expect many changes until the team can try out Benson and Broberg, but once those guys get their shot Holland is going to have no choice except to look at additions.

 

[Cloned]

They're just lazy. They all probably think sheer talent wins games, effort optional



If he was 7M, hell maybe even 8M, I can let some of that junk slide. But as the 2nd highest player, that's unacceptable. utter trash

He’s getting worse as time progresses too.

 

[frag2]

Personally I don't expect many changes until the team can try out Benson and Broberg, but once those guys get their shot Holland is going to have no choice except to look at additions.

Oh for sure. IMO, Holland's gonna do whatever it takes to make Broberg work here even if he's made of glass.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

McDrai HAVE to play like that b/c nobody else on the team is capable of getting any production without them. Get a real roster around them, especially some defensemen that wont get themselves hemmed in for 50 shifts in a row, and there'd be less need for them to always try to play outside the system and cheat for offense b/c nobody else gets it done.

 

[russ99]

The Oilers are a team without a real game plan, and it's been this way since McDavid was drafted. The Oilers org assumed that having McDavid on the team was an instant win button, and yes, sometimes he is just that. But when McDavid and Draisatl don't have a good game there's nothing else here.

I'm also certain if you went back to the pre-McDavid days there was likely a lot of talk about how Hall/RNH/Eberle were coach killers, and then before that Sam Gagner, (Stanley Cup champion) Andrew Cogliano, and Robert Nilsson....

Maybe the players are coach killers, I don't tend to believe so. But look at all the coaches we've hired in the cap era. Not a single one has gone on to find head coaching success elsewhere.

The problems with the Oilers run super deep. Management and scouting have been ridiculously bad for generations. The Oilers likely wouldn't be in such trouble if they could draft worth a damn, or find a good depth player capable of putting up numbers without the need to be stapled to McDavid's side.

While I can understand some have soured on Woodcroft, when's the last time the Oilers org made a hire that you thought "Damn, that was incredibly savvy!" Someone pointed out yesterday that old Oiler standby Tyler Dellow was in the Devils organization. Where's our analytics department? Are we still the only team without one? How do the Oilers continually whiff on roster acquisitions, draft picks, hires at all levels?

The Oilers brass is the problem and always has been the problem. A bunch of dinosaurs trapped in an era that doesn't exist anymore while 31 other teams move ahead. Okay, maybe not Arizona.

The issue is how our fans, and now also our players are in love with “Oilers hockey”. It’s not enough to win, we have to win by as many goals as we can, because it’s not good enough unless we’re an offensive juggernaut that is so much better than anyone else.

And sadly it also seems like Woodcroft has a similar style of hubris, some humility and hard work would go a long way.

 

[bone]

There was one play last night where he got caught way up the ice (he does this often before we even have solid possession), and the Devils had a rush the other way.

Instead of busting his ass to get back, he glides back. The team does a decent job recovering, his D partner puts the puck around the boards to where he should’ve been if he had actually skated hard, but he’s still gliding by the top of the circle instead. He gets this momentary “oh shit, I should’ve been there” look. He got lucky they got it out eventually, but that whole sequence was representative of what his play has become: lazy, entitled and out of position.

Was this the lazy spin-o-rama pass into the slot where no Oiler was but 4 Devils were leading them to come up ice with numbers and 2 Grade A scoring chances. Happened at 16:24 of the second and really kick started the Devils into dominating the rest of the second period. Shots were 13-6 Edmonton at that point and the gap on the shot clock was promptly closed and 2 goals scored. Personally, I think that play was the turning point from the team playing fairly responsibly and keeping a really good Devils team somewhat in check into a gong show of chances against.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

If we’re going here where we’re saying it‘s the same problems with this coach going back to Maclellan then we’re only only talking about a few players and those have been the ones immune to criticism up to now.

There are regular season defensive issues with our core no question.

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm going to go with what I've been saying all along. The defence is the weak underbelly of this team, and has been for some time. That isn't to say we've haven't had bad production from many other players, but our defence is the main issue for me. And unfortunately, most of them are just settling into what they really are, despite their cap hit, or where they are slotted in right now.

Nurse is not a 9.25 #1 dman. He is a #2 complementary guy that's getting paid more than Kale Makar.

Cody Ceci is a decent 2nd pairing player, not a top pair where he is right now.

Brett Kulak is a bottom pairing guy, despite where he is and his salary. A very good bottom pairing guy I might add.

Evan Bouchard is a young guy learning the ropes and should be on the bottom pairing, and getting a bit of PP time here and there.

Nemo is 6 or 7 dman, that should be rotated in and out of that last spot, while he learns the game.

Tyson Barrie is right where he should be. A bottom pairing guy that gets PP time (his strength). And surprise, surprise, out of all of them, he is performing the best, or, least worst.

You can coach this group to play better than they are, and have the forwards contribute more, but at the end of the day, I think the ceiling for this group is not very high.

 

[McAsuno]

No doubt this D sucks, but neutral zone has gone from 1-1-3 to 1-2-2, The McLellan/Tippett stretch pass resulting in icings or loss of puck possession, or players no longer defending entries at the blue line by playing back passively (was evident with Playfair and fixed by Manson last season) has been extremely questionable with the coaching staff.

 

[MessierII]

What difference does it make when the D is a total abject failure at actually defending?

D is a 5 man thing not a 2 man thing. The D are only part of the issue defensively.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

I'm going to go with what I've been saying all along. The defence is the weak underbelly of this team, and has been for some time. That isn't to say we've haven't had bad production from many other players, but our defence is the main issue for me. And unfortunately, most of them are just settling into what they really are, despite their cap hit, or where they are slotted in right now.

Nurse is not a 9.25 #1 dman. He is a #2 complementary guy that's getting paid more than Kale Makar.

Cody Ceci is a decent 2nd pairing player, not a top pair where he is right now.

Brett Kulak is a bottom pairing guy, despite where he is and his salary. A very good bottom pairing guy I might add.

Evan Bouchard is a young guy learning the ropes and should be on the bottom pairing, and getting a bit of PP time here and there.

Nemo is 6 or 7 dman, that should be rotated in and out of that last spot, while he learns the game.

Tyson Barrie is right where he should be. A bottom pairing guy that gets PP time (his strength). And surprise, surprise, out of all of them, he is performing the best, or, least worst.

You can coach this group to play better than they are, and have the forwards contribute more, but at the end of the day, I think the ceiling for this group is not very high.

our 22M blueline.......just like Carolina

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I do believe we miss the vocal leadership of Keith, Kassian and Smith in that locker room. In a big way.