Cliff Fletcher The Great Destroyer

[Stephen]

The recent Alex Steen retirement brought me back to thinking about Cliff Fletcher. For all the good and excitement he brought to Toronto in between 1992-1996 and the reputation for being a shrewd wheeler and dealer that brought us so many names like Gilmour, Sundin, Andreychuk, Fuhr in various blockbuster trade, I can't help but look at his whole body of work as some of the most disastrous management regime we have ever seen in modern Leafs history post Harold Ballard.

Sure, JFJ and Burke received their fair share of criticism for the Rask/Raycroft, Kessel trades which set us back years and Pat Quinn never really planned for a post lockout/salary cap world, but the amount of damage Cliff Fletcher did to the Leafs cannot be understated.

The Panic Buy of 1996:

Kenny Jonsson, the 1997 first round pick (Roberto Luongo), Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson - for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and DJ Smith. Basically undid all the gains from the Mats Sundin trade in 1994 and took two franchise cornerstones out of the equation.

The Panic Sell off of 1996-97, when Steve Stavro slashed budget over night which resulted in the trading of still valuable assets for nothing:

Doug Gilmour and Dave Ellett - traded for Steve Sullivan, Alyn McCauley and Jason Smith. Probably a substandard return for Killer to begin with given the lack of picks in return, but made worse by mismanagement down the road.
Mike Gartner - traded for a 4th round pick.
Dave Andreychuk - traded for a third round pick.
Dave Gagner - traded for a third round pick.
Larry Murphy - traded for nothing.
Kirk Muller - traded for Jason Podollan.
Todd Gill - traded for a 5th round pick and Jamie Baker.

The Dismantling of the Muskoka Five 2008-09:

Alex Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo - traded for Lee Stempinak
Bryan McCabe with a 4th round pick! - traded for Mike Van Ryn
Pavel Kubina - traded for Garnett Exelby and Colin Stuart
Darcy Tucker - bought out.

To summarize, it's just insane how little return the Leafs got from the dismantling of two core groups at the hands of one GM over the course of two decades. The first go round was bad enough, but the second was just awful and unnecessary. I feel like we are looking at this history from a safe distance with a young team poised to do great things, but if you ever wonder why it took so long to get here, I think one man deserves more blame than all the rest.

Click to read more...

 

[ottomaddox]

The recent Alex Steen retirement brought me back to thinking about Cliff Fletcher. For all the good and excitement he brought to Toronto in between 1992-1996 and the reputation for being a shrewd wheeler and dealer that brought us so many names like Gilmour, Sundin, Andreychuk, Fuhr in various blockbuster trade, I can't help but look at his whole body of work as some of the most disastrous management regime we have ever seen in modern Leafs history post Harold Ballard.

Sure, JFJ and Burke received their fair share of criticism for the Rask/Raycroft, Kessel trades which set us back years and Pat Quinn never really planned for a post lockout/salary cap world, but the amount of damage Cliff Fletcher did to the Leafs cannot be understated.

The Panic Buy of 1996:

Kenny Jonsson, the 1997 first round pick (Roberto Luongo), Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson - for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and DJ Smith. Basically undid all the gains from the Mats Sundin trade in 1994 and took two franchise cornerstones out of the equation.

The Panic Sell off of 1996-97, when Steve Stavro slashed budget over night which resulted in the trading of still valuable assets for nothing:

Doug Gilmour and Dave Ellett - traded for Steve Sullivan, Alyn McCauley and Jason Smith. Probably a substandard return for Killer to begin with given the lack of picks in return, but made worse by mismanagement down the road.
Mike Gartner - traded for a 4th round pick.
Dave Andreychuk - traded for a third round pick.
Dave Gagner - traded for a third round pick.
Larry Murphy - traded for nothing.
Kirk Muller - traded for Jason Podollan.
Todd Gill - traded for a 5th round pick and Jamie Baker.

The Dismantling of the Muskoka Five 2008-09:

Alex Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo - traded for Lee Stempinak
Bryan McCabe with a 4th round pick! - traded for Mike Van Ryn
Pavel Kubina - traded for Garnett Exelby and Colin Stuart
Darcy Tucker - bought out.

To summarize, it's just insane how little return the Leafs got from the dismantling of two core groups at the hands of one GM over the course of two decades. The first go round was bad enough, but the second was just awful and unnecessary. I feel like we are looking at this history from a safe distance with a young team poised to do great things, but if you ever wonder why it took so long to get here, I think one man deserves more blame than all the rest.

I disagree. This is not all of his body of work. You need a little more balance here.

You're also naming players that were mostly average in their waning careers. Murphy the only exception. He wasn't a bad player on TOR. He just had D partners that didn't jive with his speed/style.

Every single GM has a list like the one you mentioned. Even Dubas is compiling a mistake list and he's only a couple of years into his tenure.

Try to take Fletcher's cup away from him.

 

[Stephen]

I disagree. This is not all of his body of work. You need a little more balance here.

You're also naming players that were mostly average in their waning careers. Murphy the only exception. He wasn't a bad player on TOR. He just had D partners that didn't jive with his speed/style.

Every single GM has a list like the one you mentioned. Even Dubas is compiling a mistake list and he's only a couple of years into his tenure.

Try to take Fletcher's cup away from him.

Cliff Fletcher did great work in Toronto initially but undid it all - twice - on the way down. The main issue looks like panic buys and then panic sell offs in high volume. Like you lose one trade in a fire sale, fine, but when you do it a dozen times, you open up holes in an organization that takes years to recover from.

His work in Calgary was phenomenal but unfortunately that Stanley Cup banner isn't hanging at the Scotiabank Arena.

 

[ottomaddox]

Cliff Fletcher did great work in Toronto initially but undid it all - twice - on the way down. The main issue looks like panic buys and then panic sell offs in high volume. Like you lose one trade in a fire sale, fine, but when you do it a dozen times, you open up holes in an organization that takes years to recover from.

His work in Calgary was phenomenal but unfortunately that Stanley Cup banner isn't hanging at the Scotiabank Arena.

The JFJ mess was cleaned up by not 1, but 2 GMs! I have no idea what you wanted? He couldn't successfully put lipstick on a pig after JFJ. I think The Silver Fox was villanized when he attempted to get Sundin to waive his NTC. He did bold things no doubt. He would swing hard and strike out. There's no question about that. In hindsight the Steen/Carlo trade didn't work out. At the time Carlo's injuries/development was in serious question. Many Leaf fans felt that he was made of glass. It wasn't a good trade, but again it was a mistake. Huge mistake? Ok. I can probably find many in any GM that's been around as long as Fletcher.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Thinking Jeff Finger was Kurt Sauer and giving him a contract neither of them were worth will be an all timer for Fletcher.

 

[Mess]

The recent Alex Steen retirement brought me back to thinking about Cliff Fletcher. For all the good and excitement he brought to Toronto in between 1992-1996 and the reputation for being a shrewd wheeler and dealer that brought us so many names like Gilmour, Sundin, Andreychuk, Fuhr in various blockbuster trade, I can't help but look at his whole body of work as some of the most disastrous management regime we have ever seen in modern Leafs history post Harold Ballard.

Sure, JFJ and Burke received their fair share of criticism for the Rask/Raycroft, Kessel trades which set us back years and Pat Quinn never really planned for a post lockout/salary cap world, but the amount of damage Cliff Fletcher did to the Leafs cannot be understated.

The Panic Buy of 1996:

Kenny Jonsson, the 1997 first round pick (Roberto Luongo), Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson - for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and DJ Smith. Basically undid all the gains from the Mats Sundin trade in 1994 and took two franchise cornerstones out of the equation.

The Panic Sell off of 1996-97, when Steve Stavro slashed budget over night which resulted in the trading of still valuable assets for nothing:

Doug Gilmour and Dave Ellett - traded for Steve Sullivan, Alyn McCauley and Jason Smith. Probably a substandard return for Killer to begin with given the lack of picks in return, but made worse by mismanagement down the road.
Mike Gartner - traded for a 4th round pick.
Dave Andreychuk - traded for a third round pick.
Dave Gagner - traded for a third round pick.
Larry Murphy - traded for nothing.
Kirk Muller - traded for Jason Podollan.
Todd Gill - traded for a 5th round pick and Jamie Baker.

The Dismantling of the Muskoka Five 2008-09:

Alex Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo - traded for Lee Stempinak
Bryan McCabe with a 4th round pick! - traded for Mike Van Ryn
Pavel Kubina - traded for Garnett Exelby and Colin Stuart
Darcy Tucker - bought out.

To summarize, it's just insane how little return the Leafs got from the dismantling of two core groups at the hands of one GM over the course of two decades. The first go round was bad enough, but the second was just awful and unnecessary. I feel like we are looking at this history from a safe distance with a young team poised to do great things, but if you ever wonder why it took so long to get here, I think one man deserves more blame than all the rest.

 

[Voodoo Child]

The Jonsson-Pick that became Lou for Wendel was bad - but this was a pre-cap world and the Leafs then, much like the Leafs today, could print money. They went to the final four four times in eight years under those rules.

Was KJ really anything special? To me he looked like an injury-prone #3D who ran off to play in Europe when he was 30...and what if they picked Nick Boynton or Daniel Tkaczuk instead of Lou?

Dougie was washed up and had been usurped by Mats when he was traded to NJ.

Mikey Moustache was either 36 or 37 years old when he was shipped.

Larry Murphy was never appreciated and clearly needed a culture change.

The Muskoka-5, despite their years of service, were holding the franchise hostage. They had become complacent and too willing to accept losing as long as they got their ends.

All that being said, Steen-Cola for Stempniak was putrid, the Jeff Finger signing was hilarious and McCabe was sort of a Murphy retread and one of the M5.

But as bad as Cliff was, Burke was worse.

1. Kessel for Seguin, Hamilton and Knight. The most important skill for anyone in any position of leadership is the ability to properly assess the situation, this was a monumental failure.

2. Mike Komisarek, 5 years, 4.5, Brett Lebda, 2 years, 2.9.

3. The Kubina trade you attribute to Cliff happened on 7.1.2009, so it was Burke's trade not Clifford's.

4. Anointing Dion captain right when he walks in the door, you think that won't cause any resentment? At least Dubas gave JT a year to settle to throw up the pretense of it being a tough call.

5. His drafting was garb. 2009, Kadri. 2010, 0fer. 2011, Leivo, 2012, Mo and Brown.

The best player he drafted, aside from gimme top ten picks, was Connor Brown...and the best part is he has the balls to try and critique the Leafs after every draft. He's awfully quick to take credit for Morgan Rielly, but never takes the blame for the other 30+ picks he sewered.

Ffs he whiffed on two first rounders in 2011 alone.

A number two defenseman, a second line center, a third line center, a fourth line winger and two career AHLers in four years is terrible.

He's an absolute moron, and when he ran the Leafs everyone said he was a moron, but now he's like some sort of hockey Gandalf according to the main boards.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's still the best GM we've had in my lifetime, although, it is not like he's had much competition.

 

[Mess]

One thing you're neglecting is the Full NMC of the Muskoka Five, who stood behind those No Movement clause contracts, refused to be traded, so looking at the return of McCabe or the buyout of Tucker or the deal of Kabina was all to net getting full value but rather fulfilling the obligation of MLSE who brought him in to "Clear the Slate".

Turning the page and starting over and removing big, long term contracts was the goal. It would have been nice had the Muskoka 5 capitulated including Mats at the time but that wasn't the case of the returns would have been much higher..

Remember the Thomas Kaberle to Flyers for Jeff Carter and a First Round Pick accepted trade that Tomas vetoed?

What If Mats Sundin and Thomas Kaberle Had Agreed to Trades?

This time around, "The Silver Fox" inherited a roster full of veterans, five of whom were carrying no-trade clauses in their back pockets courtesy of former GM John Ferguson, Jr.

As the Feb. 26 trade deadline approached, the media reported that Mats Sundin, Thomas Kaberle, Bryan McCabe, Pavel Kubina, and Darcy Tucker had all been asked to waive their no-trade clauses.

Fletcher is one of the best general managers that this city has ever seen, but even he could not salvage anything from this situation. By the end of the day, he had only moved Hal Gill, Wade Belak, and Chad Kilger for picks.

In Cliff's defense, he did his job and fielded offers for all of the players, but it was their right to choose. Tucker was the first to announce his answer—a flat out "no."

Full Story: What If Mats Sundin and Thomas Kaberle Had Agreed to Trades?

 

[david999]

I have to disagree that Fletcher was the worst GM. That title belongs to JFJ. He set the franchise back a minimum of 10 years with the disastrous moves he made. Traded Rask to Boston for Raycroft, traded three picks, including a 1st to the Sharks for Toskala, traded picks ( including a 1st and 2nd) plus ++ for Brian Leach, and then doesn’t even try to resign him, doesn’t attempt to resign Gary Roberts, fires Pat Quinn, signs Jason Blake for 5 years, etc.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'll never forget the story of how he was brought back. He was sitting poolside at his house in Arizona, likely taking a nap, and the Leafs called him to come be a puppet GM for a little while. And I certainly won't forget the embarrassment that is Richard Peddie. You could actually see Peddie mouthing the words of Fletchers first speech, sitting right beside him, when Cliff came back. What a gongshow era it was.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I have to disagree that Fletcher was the worst GM. That title belongs to JFJ. He set the franchise back a minimum of 10 years with the disastrous moves he made. Traded Rask to Boston for Raycroft, traded three picks, including a 1st to the Sharks for Toskala, traded picks ( including a 1st and 2nd) plus ++ for Brian Leach, and then doesn’t even try to resign him, doesn’t attempt to resign Gary Roberts, fires Pat Quinn, signs Jason Blake for 5 years, etc.

Again, I'll go back to Peddie here. Peddie pressured the front office to do everything possible, including throwing away assets, to make the playoffs every year. They wanted that sweet, sweet playoff revenue. It always blows me away that Leafs fans zero in on JFJ, yet ignore his boss. I'm no fan of JFJ but when you look deeper into the politics of the Leafs, everything pointed to the man who worked for the board and wouldn't hesitate to throw everyone under the bus. I wouldn't be shocked if Tanenbaum had his fingerprints on it too.

 

[Buds17]

The initial run went well until it finished poorly and led to his eventual firing. The sequel wasn't as memorable as the original. Building the organization up and making a run fared better than tearing things down and aiming for futures.

I actually didn't mind the return from the Gilmour and Ellett trade to NJ. Smith and Sullivan had already appeared in the NHL with the Devils. McCauley was a prospect that made the show both here and afterwards. McCauley's career was shortened due to injury. However, Smith and Sullivan remained in the league for many years post Toronto. The three players essentially panned out as NHLers. Unfortunately, their best years weren't realized while with the Leafs.

 

[New Liskeard]

I have to disagree that Fletcher was the worst GM. That title belongs to JFJ. He set the franchise back a minimum of 10 years with the disastrous moves he made. Traded Rask to Boston for Raycroft, traded three picks, including a 1st to the Sharks for Toskala, traded picks ( including a 1st and 2nd) plus ++ for Brian Leach, and then doesn’t even try to resign him, doesn’t attempt to resign Gary Roberts, fires Pat Quinn, signs Jason Blake for 5 years, etc.

There is a big difference here. Fletch had autonomy, JFJ did not. Huge difference, and Fletch was a disaster in his second go around. Look at the facts, one was a puppet, the other had free will.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Thinking Jeff Finger was Kurt Sauer and giving him a contract neither of them were worth will be an all timer for Fletcher.

This might be the single most inept thing a hockey GM has ever done.

That contract on today's cap is 5.03 AAV.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

One thing you're neglecting is the Full NMC of the Muskoka Five, who stood behind those No Movement clause contracts, refused to be traded, so looking at the return of McCabe or the buyout of Tucker or the deal of Kabina was all to net getting full value but rather fulfilling the obligation of MLSE who brought him in to "Clear the Slate".

Turning the page and starting over and removing big, long term contracts was the goal. It would have been nice had the Muskoka 5 capitulated including Mats at the time but that wasn't the case of the returns would have been much higher..

Remember the Thomas Kaberle to Flyers for Jeff Carter and a First Round Pick accepted trade that Tomas vetoed?

What If Mats Sundin and Thomas Kaberle Had Agreed to Trades?

This time around, "The Silver Fox" inherited a roster full of veterans, five of whom were carrying no-trade clauses in their back pockets courtesy of former GM John Ferguson, Jr.

As the Feb. 26 trade deadline approached, the media reported that Mats Sundin, Thomas Kaberle, Bryan McCabe, Pavel Kubina, and Darcy Tucker had all been asked to waive their no-trade clauses.

Fletcher is one of the best general managers that this city has ever seen, but even he could not salvage anything from this situation. By the end of the day, he had only moved Hal Gill, Wade Belak, and Chad Kilger for picks.

In Cliff's defense, he did his job and fielded offers for all of the players, but it was their right to choose. Tucker was the first to announce his answer—a flat out "no."

Full Story: What If Mats Sundin and Thomas Kaberle Had Agreed to Trades?

Cliff also publicly lowered value on his assets and somehow managed to leave us with more commitments than when he started, doing so with the Hollweg's of the world. Absolutely brutal second tenure.

 

[ACC1224]

Absolutely brutal in his second go around. Astounding how badly he bungled selling off Sundin, et al.

 

[The Podium]

There has been a sad history of Leafs ownership and management that cascaded into decades of ineptitude.

It is no surprise that less than a decade after the Leafs, Raptors and TFC got stable ownership they all turned it around.

Same can be said for the Blue Jays, albeit a bit earlier than the rest

 

[ShaneFalco]

As brutal as he was, he was handed a life-time gig

But yeah, Peddie was really the big problem

 

[Clark4Ever]

Fletcher single handedly brought the franchise back from the depths of the abyss when he took over. He made his share of mistakes in the latter stages of his tenure, but I will always remember him fondly.

 

[4thline]

Thinking Jeff Finger was Kurt Sauer and giving him a contract neither of them were worth will be an all timer for Fletcher.

I have chosen to believe the same thing happened with the Steen/Carlo trade, and he thought he was getting Backes.

 

[Stephen]

What If Mats Sundin and Thomas Kaberle Had Agreed to Trades?

I don't believe those players would have made much of a dent in the Fletcher sell low destruction of the team. How anybody manages to get absolutely negative value for McCabe, Kubina, Steen and Colaiacovo in that timeline should tell you he wasn't fit to conduct the auction.

 

[Stephen]

Cliff also publicly lowered value on his assets and somehow managed to leave us with more commitments than when he started, doing so with the Hollweg's of the world. Absolutely brutal second tenure.

Agreed. I can't remember a GM whose primary function was to alienate the more valuable players, drive down their value and ship them out to return the franchise back to an expansion team talent level. Obviously Richard Peddie deserves the bulk of the blame for the direction, but you'd assume the veteran hand would have been able to execute the plan with some finesse.

 

[4thline]

I don't believe those players would have made much of a dent in the Fletcher sell low destruction of the team. How anybody manages to get absolutely negative value for McCabe, Kubina, Steen and Colaiacovo in that timeline should tell you he wasn't fit to conduct the auction.

08 had such a swing of events
Leading up to the deadline it sucked that the big guns balked, but getting 2nd+3rd+5th+5th for Gill/Kilger/Belak was a decent haul, seemed to bode well.

Then f***ing June came, the offseason saw
2nd+3rd+3rd+4th+5th go out the door for two 4th line players, a slightly higher draft pick, and the right to watch a top pairing defender be named Captain of another team and put up 3 straight 40 points seasons.

He more than erased the haul he brought in at the deadline, and for less than nothing in return.

 

[Stephen]

08 had such a swing of events
Leading up to the deadline it sucked that the big guns balked, but getting 2nd+3rd+5th+5th for Gill/Kilger/Belak was a decent haul, seemed to bode well.

Then f***ing June came, the offseason saw
2nd+3rd+3rd+4th+5th go out the door for two 4th line players, a slightly higher draft pick, and the right to watch a top pairing defender be named Captain of another team and put up 3 straight 40 points seasons.

He more than erased the haul he brought in at the deadline, and for less than nothing in return.

Yeah, it's crazy to think what kind of normal hockey returns he got for lesser roster players but under the directive of breaking up the Muskoka Five he just threw away half decent players and any chance of getting normal foundational assets. The same vicious cycle and terrible asset management can be seen in his 90s panic sells:

Drafts the then up and coming Eric Fichaud in the first round in 1994, and trades him to the Islanders for a substandard forward upgrade in Benoit Hogue. Wheels and deals him for Dave Gagner, debatably a better forward, but then ownership slashes budget and he bails on Gagner for a third round pick in 1996, downgrading a first round asset to basically nothing in two calendar years.

Then for all the good money he threw at guys like Muller, Gagner, Murphy in pursuit of a championship in the mid 90s, finds himself in a cash crunch and can't sign the greatest player of all time, Wayne Gretzky. What a comedy of errors.