Confirmed with Link: Clayton Keller, Coyotes agree on 8-year, $7.15M AAV extension

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,342
3,379
There are many things that Chayka has done that I don't agree with, but Keller's contract is not one of them. DVO and Chick's contract has more risk than Keller's.
$56 mill for a small somewhat unpoven winger has a lot of risk. DVO/Chych are being paid much less with less term, and they both play more valuable positions. What if Keller gets hurt or goes the way of Bods then what? Keller isn't a shoe in to be a 60+ point scorer the next 8 years. I think there is more risk in Kellers deal.

I hope Keller gets 80 points this year, DVO 50, and Chych 40, we get 100+ points as a team, Chayka is GM of the year and Tocc is coach of the year. That is what I am hoping for. I'm really not negative, I'm actually excited about this year for the team and I like Keller.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RemoAZ

BUX7PHX

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
5,581
1,350
$56 mill for a small somewhat unpoven winger has a lot of risk. DVO/Chych are being paid much less with less term, and they both play more valuable positions. What if Keller gets hurt or goes the way of Bods then what? Keller isn't a shoe in to be a 60+ point scorer the next 8 years. I think there is more risk in Kellers deal.

I hope Keller gets 80 points this year, DVO 50, and Chych 40, we get 100+ points as a team, Chayka is GM of the year and Tocc is coach of the year. That is what I am hoping for. I'm really not negative, I'm actually excited about this year for the team and I like Keller.

Of Dvorak, Chychrun, and Keller, who is most likely to eclipse 50 points? There are such things as calculated risks. Of those three, we are paying more to the player who is most likely to have a more dramatic effect on our team and its ability to put the puck in the net. That player also had over 60 points at age 19, whereas we are all aware that defensemen typically take more time to reach their peak, and Dvorak has come close to 40 points at age 20 and 21, but not over that number.

I think that we acing some of these contract values and matching up to what the expectation of what the players will produce. Considering that an article had mentioned how Chayka deserved praise for getting Schmaltz to sign a long-term deal when there have been players who were not willing to do that, I think it should be looked at as a feather in his cap that he is locking up good players for a good amount of time, whereas each year, other teams may not know how to approach an offseason if they aren't sure if their top player(s) can be anywhere between $9 and $13.5 M per year. That $4.5 M difference can cost you at least 1 and as many as 2 or 3 players that you now can't afford.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jakey53

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
9,260
4,606
Just stop -as usual, you have no earthly idea what you are talking about. All athletics has been on a "what will you do for me?" basis and not a "what have you done for me?" basis.

It's even in the way that the contracts are structured - take any player with a long-term deal and you will see exactly what is being talked about:

Jeff Carter signed an 11 year deal in 2010-11 offseason. He has won 2 Stanley Cups. Based on past performance, like you said, he should be making more money in the last years of his deal, because the expectation is that his past performance would affect the latter part of his deal. Yet, in the 2020-21 and 2021-22 season, he is only making $2 M per season. The reason why is because the expectation is that what he will do for your team in those seasons is less than what he would do when he was at a younger age.

You use what has been done in the past to help assess the value of where the player compares to peers, but depending on where they are at in career is what determines what they will be capable of.

What would you pay for the following free agents next year for a 1 year AAV (or are you going to skirt the question, as usual?):

Tyler Toffoli
Mike Hoffman
Evgeni Dadonov
Chris Kreider
Corey Perry

I want to see if your salaries match up with what the player has done in the past, or if they match up to what you think the player is capable of. Because if you are following what you are stating that you base it off what the player has done, then Corey Perry should be no worse than the 2nd highest salary amongst these five.

The car and house payment relative to an athlete is exactly what you fail to understand - those payments aren't made on what that can become. My 2000 square foot house isn't going to magically become a 3500 sq ft. house. But an 18 or 19 year old kid can easily gain 10-40 pounds of muscle, and grow 1-4 inches. There are very few 18, 19, 20, and 21 year olds that have their best seasons in those years, and then decline the rest of the way. Houses, cars, or any other big ticket item don't have a specific bell curve to them. A player should be peaking between the ages of 25 and 31. In other sports, that number can be different. In basketball, it is probably 22-32. In football, it is probably 24-28 for RBs, but 25-34 for a QB. We are placing the bulk of the money into the prime years of that player. How you do not understand that is beyond my comprehension.
Just...can’t... do it.
 

RemoAZ

Let it burn
Mar 30, 2010
11,176
7,528
Glendale, Arizona
I'd pay market value for a 94 point player, especially if he had seasons of 61/69 and then 94, 75 point avg over 3 years. Marner is more proven today, Keller is not, Marner should get more, way more.

I get the strategy Chayka is trying, and I hope it works. But its guess work, hoping all these players work out that aren't proven yet. Chayka traded Domi/Strome and they both had career years. I don't trust his judgement with young players, he might wind up being right, but it will be because he guessed right on Kellers deal.

I'd much rather pay a more proven Marner $10+ mil than any of our guys $7 or $8m mil. I'd bet every team in the league would. I'd also bet he wouldn't have had near those same numbers with us because our management, past and present has proven they suck royally at evaluating and developing young players. Marner, because he wasn't drafted by the wiz kid would have been stuck on the 4th line playing a role he never has in his life with our geniuses wondering why he isn't flourishing in it. So we sit here asking ourselves, is Keller an elite skilled forward with 70 plus point potential playing for a team that can't score or is he a 50 to 60 point "good" player? Chayka is obviously betting on the first. I hope he's right. You'd think he'd eventually bet right with one of these young guys.

Chayka said Keller is a player that makes other players better. I sure would have liked to see an extended look (hell even one damn game) of him trying to make Domi and Strome better before we dumped them. Nah, we're better off just dumping those guys. Right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cobra427

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,335
6,386
I'd much rather pay a more proven Marner $10+ mil than any of our guys $7 or $8m mil. I'd bet every team in the league would. I'd also bet he wouldn't have had near those same numbers with us because our management, past and present has proven they suck royally at evaluating and developing young players. Marner, because he wasn't drafted by the wiz kid would have been stuck on the 4th line playing a role he never has in his life with our geniuses wondering why he isn't flourishing in it. So we sit here asking ourselves, is Keller an elite skilled forward with 70 plus point potential playing for a team that can't score or is he a 50 to 60 point "good" player? Chayka is obviously betting on the first. I hope he's right. You'd think he'd eventually bet right with one of these young guys.

Chayka said Keller is a player that makes other players better. I sure would have liked to see an extended look (hell even one damn game) of him trying to make Domi and Strome better before we dumped them. Nah, we're better off just dumping those guys. Right?
Not that it matters but Marner played quite a bit on the 4th line while he learned to be a more complete player.
 

BUX7PHX

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
5,581
1,350
Just...can’t... do it.

Cant do what?

Keller is averaging 56 points per season after two seasons. Are we paying him based on averaging 56 points for the remaining life of his deal, or are we paying him with the expectation that his best years are ahead and we are looking for 60-70 points (or more) consistently?

What he has done established him as a $5-6 M AAV player. We are paying him for the expectation of what he will be. Should he average 65 points over the 8 years, and we re-sign him again, he could get a 7 year deal worth $7M AAV where he earns:

$9.5 M/$9 M/$8 M/$7.5 M/$6 M/$ 5 M/$4 M - the expectation being that he will be in his prime for the first 2 or 3 seasons with the likelihood or potential that his game will decline over the final 2 years or so.
 

WrinkledPossum

Play Dead
Apr 23, 2016
3,367
1,068
I think Keller has an extreme difference in his points floor and ceiling this season. I could see him anywhere between 55 and 90 points this year. Maybe we continue to struggle to score as a team and he has trouble hitting 60. Maybe Keller and Kessel work well together when paired with the right C. If together I think Kessel would be good for another PPG season, and Keller would be close in production.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,299
9,267
$56 mill for a small somewhat unpoven winger has a lot of risk. DVO/Chych are being paid much less with less term, and they both play more valuable positions. What if Keller gets hurt or goes the way of Bods then what? Keller isn't a shoe in to be a 60+ point scorer the next 8 years. I think there is more risk in Kellers deal.

I hope Keller gets 80 points this year, DVO 50, and Chych 40, we get 100+ points as a team, Chayka is GM of the year and Tocc is coach of the year. That is what I am hoping for. I'm really not negative, I'm actually excited about this year for the team and I like Keller.
Come on Cobra, this is laughable. You are worried about Keller getting hurt and more of a risk than DVO and Chick who have not had a injury free season. Unproven, maybe, but he had a 65 pt. season. What has DVO done? We all complained that Chick has not taken that next step, and that was before his lastest injury. I would personally take Keller's contract over DVO's and Chychrun's. To be quite honest, I think all three of those contracts, four if you include Schmaltz will turn out just fine. They may have paid a premium now, but it's not a crazy amount over market value, and all four could play above their contract this year. Chayka now has cost certainty with all his core. It could back fire on one or two players, but so could signing a 28 yo. to a long contract. I like Chayka's strategy better.
 

Schemp

Registered User
Nov 12, 2018
4,063
2,550
Forum 40
I think Keller has an extreme difference in his points floor and ceiling this season. I could see him anywhere between 55 and 90 points this year. Maybe we continue to struggle to score as a team and he has trouble hitting 60. Maybe Keller and Kessel work well together when paired with the right C. If together I think Kessel would be good for another PPG season, and Keller would be close in production.
I'm expecting Kessel and Keller only to be together on the power play. Crouse-Stepan-Kessel vs Keller-Soderberg-Schmaltz on 5on5. Hoping the power play be in the top ten this season!
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,299
9,267
I'd much rather pay a more proven Marner $10+ mil than any of our guys $7 or $8m mil. I'd bet every team in the league would. I'd also bet he wouldn't have had near those same numbers with us because our management, past and present has proven they suck royally at evaluating and developing young players. Marner, because he wasn't drafted by the wiz kid would have been stuck on the 4th line playing a role he never has in his life with our geniuses wondering why he isn't flourishing in it. So we sit here asking ourselves, is Keller an elite skilled forward with 70 plus point potential playing for a team that can't score or is he a 50 to 60 point "good" player? Chayka is obviously betting on the first. I hope he's right. You'd think he'd eventually bet right with one of these young guys.

Chayka said Keller is a player that makes other players better. I sure would have liked to see an extended look (hell even one damn game) of him trying to make Domi and Strome better before we dumped them. Nah, we're better off just dumping those guys. Right?
And I would rather pay McDavid what ever over all our guys. What's your point? Teams have salary caps to worry about and every year many have to trade good players because of it. I really do not see a down side in any of these deals unless of injuries, but that can happen with any player. Chayka has his faults, but these contracts aren't one of them.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
97,886
47,322
A Rockwellian Pleasantville
Let’s vote:

A. I approve of this signing
B. I regret this signing

Quote this post with a letter option selected (keeping non-Coyotes fans out).
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
9,260
4,606
Cant do what?

Keller is averaging 56 points per season after two seasons. Are we paying him based on averaging 56 points for the remaining life of his deal, or are we paying him with the expectation that his best years are ahead and we are looking for 60-70 points (or more) consistently?

What he has done established him as a $5-6 M AAV player. We are paying him for the expectation of what he will be. Should he average 65 points over the 8 years, and we re-sign him again, he could get a 7 year deal worth $7M AAV where he earns:

$9.5 M/$9 M/$8 M/$7.5 M/$6 M/$ 5 M/$4 M - the expectation being that he will be in his prime for the first 2 or 3 seasons with the likelihood or potential that his game will decline over the final 2 years or so.
Can’t... read... such long... posts.
 

YotesFan47

Registered User
Jun 16, 2012
4,165
2,088
Phoenix, Arizona USA
I'd much rather pay a more proven Marner $10+ mil than any of our guys $7 or $8m mil. I'd bet every team in the league would. I'd also bet he wouldn't have had near those same numbers with us because our management, past and present has proven they suck royally at evaluating and developing young players. Marner, because he wasn't drafted by the wiz kid would have been stuck on the 4th line playing a role he never has in his life with our geniuses wondering why he isn't flourishing in it. So we sit here asking ourselves, is Keller an elite skilled forward with 70 plus point potential playing for a team that can't score or is he a 50 to 60 point "good" player? Chayka is obviously betting on the first. I hope he's right. You'd think he'd eventually bet right with one of these young guys.

Chayka said Keller is a player that makes other players better. I sure would have liked to see an extended look (hell even one damn game) of him trying to make Domi and Strome better before we dumped them. Nah, we're better off just dumping those guys. Right?
Keller is a solid player who has done nothing but achieve until last season. Are we really going to take a kid who fits the culture and continually shows his value and talk like he doesn't stack up with Strome and Domi?

Strome just has his fist full season in the NHL and if he had spent the entire year in Chicago and maintained his point pace, he would have had 72 points. A whole 7 point difference from Keller in their rookie campaigns . Domi never cracked 60 points in 3 years with us and hit 72 in his 4th NHL season. He was given plenty of opportunity to put up points and never did it here under 2 different coaching regimes . The only argument that can be made at this point is that Keller is still a little too unproven to deserve that contract but there is certainly enough evidence to suggest the measly 7.15 AAV won't be an albatross.

Dvorak's contract seems like market value for a player that should sit in that 40-55 point range at a premium position. There is no reason anyone should hate that deal unless he just falls off a cliff. Chychrun is the highest risk deal and that isn't even awful. If here were to maintain his point pace for the rest of his career that he had last year, he's overpaid by roughly $1 million. Schmaltz deal is even fair given his history and projections. At worst he's overpaid by $1 million unless he falls off a cliff.
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad