Management Claude Julien - Mod Warning post 643

[Over the volcano]

And I'm still waiting on you to show me how he improved the roster this season. He didn't, he in fact made it worse in the short term.

But here, show me how that happened, because I must have missed it.

Out: Lucic, Smith, Soderberg, and Hamilton.

In: Rinaldo, Beleskey, Hayes, Ferraro, and then Liles and Stemp at the deadline.

Not sure how you can honestly look at the first group and the second group and determine they've in fact improved the roster year over year.

And the inability to keep all of those players is a direct result of the cap mess chia left them with. That Sweeney was able to bring in beleskey, vatrano, Hayes, Acciari, Ferraro, CMiller, likles and stempniak AND clear up cap space AND match their on ice performance from the previous year AND stock the shelves with prospects and picks- that's how he improved the team. Next year the clear need is to rebuild the defense- but if he does that IMO they won't need to make the playoffs for him to stick around for another year.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I see a lot of people pointing out how many teams and fans want Julien as evidence that we shouldn't fire him, but the same was true of Chiarelli and I don't think many here regret firing him.

A guy can be a good coach but still need a change of scenery or not be a good fit for the team any more. It's just like with players. I loved Lucic, but trading him made sense for a lot of reasons and I think the same is probably true of Claude now.

 

[whatsbruin]

This is in response to GloryDaze's post about it only being 3 days since the end of the season:


Generally with a decision like this though theres not a ton of deliberation. It's relatively clear cut and it makes me nervous that there has been no word at all. Not even like a "Don Sweeney will hold a press conference on Thursday" or whatever. Nothing. Just dead air while they know that out in the media etc its widely thought that the coach is a sitting duck and at the very least is on the hot seat. Knowing that and just kind of sitting idly by and not making some sort of statement/decision is irritating me a bit. If I'm being impatient in your eyes I understand that I just think this is something that should have been decided one way or the other by now and I think it makes the organization look disorganized and confused as to what to do.... whether or not that's actually accurate or not.

Perhaps one person, say Neely, wants him gone, and another, say Sweeney want him
to stay, and they are arguing it out.

I think DKH indicated Sweeney was a Julien guy and thus why he was kept last year.

 

[Hamilton Brian]

What year was it that the team started the season in Europe? Was it the same year they had a bog bonding session in Lake Placid?

Keep Julien, do more team-building and high-ropes courses work.

 

[LSCII]

Disagree- being GM is about improving the roster and pipeline in a sustainable way.
They could miss next year but be much better composed as an organization going forward. In his first year he took big strides in untying some of the knots Chia left them in- and he stacked the prospect pool without a fall off on the ice. This next year he needs to fundamentally address the defense (which may include the guys in net). If he can do that he sticks for at least another year playoffs or no.

And the inability to keep all of those players is a direct result of the cap mess chia left them with. That Sweeney was able to bring in beleskey, vatrano, Hayes, Acciari, Ferraro, CMiller, likles and stempniak AND clear up cap space AND match their on ice performance from the previous year AND stock the shelves with prospects and picks- that's how he improved the team. Next year the clear need is to rebuild the defense- but if he does that IMO they won't need to make the playoffs for him to stick around for another year.

But that's not what you said. You said in your first post to me (see above) that it was about improving the roster year over year. And again, they haven't. Now you're changing the argument and making it about cap flexibility. And even then, Sweeney's only move that really helped in that area was Hayes for Smith, and even that move hurt the roster in the short term.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

And I'm still waiting on you to show me how he improved the roster this season. He didn't, he in fact made it worse in the short term.

But here, show me how that happened, because I must have missed it.

Out: Lucic, Smith, Soderberg, and Hamilton.

In: Rinaldo, Beleskey, Hayes, Ferraro, and then Liles and Stemp at the deadline.

Not sure how you can honestly look at the first group and the second group and determine they've in fact improved the roster year over year.

You forgot Matt Irwin.

 

[Jorah Marshmont]

You forgot Matt Irwin.

And Kemp

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Sports is a what have you done lately type of business, no? And long term patience does not really happen in a results oriented business like this. It's not me. It's the mere truth of the situation. If Sweeney fires Claude, his neck is next on the chopping block next year if they miss. It's the nature of the sport.

Chia's efforts were sabotaged by his own stupidity. His choice for coach was a train wreck and then he made the cap issues worse by trading prospects for Manny Fernandez and his overpriced at the time contract.

Lonnie, before Chia was fired you were all aboard the bandwagon to get rid of him due to him putting us in "cap jail" (a phrase you used all the time). But that cap jail was a direct result of Chia making rash short-term decisions (like the Iginla deal). Just pointing it out because if you're going to argue that the team should have that kind of mentality all the time then it's in pretty direct contradiction to your past opinions.

 

[LSCII]

You forgot Matt Irwin.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I honestly didn't include part time guys because they either weren't good enough or haven't officially made it yet. So players like Irwin or Vatrano are not germane to the argument, IMO. A guy like Rinaldo was because they moved good assets to get him and he was fully expected to be here in a role with the Bruins.

 

[Over the volcano]

But that's not what you said. You said in your first post to me (see above) that it was about improving the roster year over year. And again, they haven't. Now you're changing the argument and making it about cap flexibility. And even then, Sweeney's only move that really helped in that area was Hayes for Smith, and even that move hurt the roster in the short term.

"Improving the roster in a sustainable way" means what it says- what chia left them with wasn't sustainable. The team is MUCH better set up for the future (next year included) under DS than they were when chia was shown the door- AND they didn't perform any worse on the ice this year than they did with soderberg, Hamilton and lucic.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Did you really expect Chia to right that ship in 1 year?

Right the ship in 1 year?

You mean the ship he was sinking since 2011 by falling in love with the roster he built? The B's did not miss playoffs because of one year, it was a culmination of things over the last half of his tenure.

The funny part is that most people seem to think that Sweeeney should have been able to fix Chia's messes in one year.

 

[JOKER 192]

FWIW ,Ray Ferraro just said on TSN Montreal that his son is doing his exit interview with Claude at this very minute. Would a coach that is going to be fired be doing exit interviews?

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

FWIW ,Ray Ferraro just said on TSN Montreal that his son is doing his exit interview with Claude at this very minute. Would a coach that is going to be fired be doing exit interviews?

He might, if he doesn't know he's going to be fired.

But, really, it prolly is a sign that he's staying.

Keep in mind....I'm always wrong about these things!!!

 

[LSCII]

Lonnie, before Chia was fired you were all aboard the bandwagon to get rid of him due to him putting us in "cap jail" (a phrase you used all the time). But that cap jail was a direct result of Chia making rash short-term decisions (like the Iginla deal). Just pointing it out because if you're going to argue that the team should have that kind of mentality all the time then it's in pretty direct contradiction to your past opinions.

And so many people here were against Chia getting fired at first but over the course of this year, they've embraced it. Imagine that?

In terms of short term decisions, there are different instances. With Iggy, Chia made the mistake of sacrificing future years for a shot at winning now. I can at least understand that since it's motivated by trying to win a cup. The other side of the coin is the Boychuk move that just weakened the team and roster for no other reason than being in cap jail. That kind of move I can't get on board with. Similar to Sweeney moving Lucic for ultimately a pick. He didn't really gain cap space since the B's ate money on the deal, so he weakened the roster in the short term and hopefully gained an asset in the future, but we won't know for a while.

 

[Scotto74]

good read here on CJ and the position management put him in this year.

http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/...h-don-sweeney-cam-neely-collapse-nhl-playoffs

 

[Hamilton Brian]

He might, if he doesn't know he's going to be fired.

But, really, it prolly is a sign that he's staying.

Keep in mind....I'm always wrong about these things!!!

Yeah, but wouldn't management quietly tell him, "Don't worry about it Claude, we'll call you" and do the exit interview themselves?

Wouldn't an exit interview go better with both the GM and coach present?

 

[BMC]

probably upper management trying to convince Julien to resign as opposed to having to fire him. Perhaps another role in the organization or they are getting the watch that they bought for him appraised to see the value of it, which is taking some time to get the appraised value of .

If I was Julien I'd tell upper management to just **** off, you want me gone then grown a pair & fire me. I would not give them the satisfaction of resigning, not after the way they let him twist in the wind for 2 months last year trying to make up their minds whether to keep or fire him.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

And so many people here were against Chia getting fired at first but over the course of this year, they've embraced it. Imagine that?

In terms of short term decisions, there are different instances. With Iggy, Chia made the mistake of sacrificing future years for a shot at winning now. I can at least understand that since it's motivated by trying to win a cup. The other side of the coin is the Boychuk move that just weakened the team and roster for no other reason than being in cap jail. That kind of move I can't get on board with. Similar to Sweeney moving Lucic for ultimately a pick. He didn't really gain cap space since the B's ate money on the deal, so he weakened the roster in the short term and hopefully gained an asset in the future, but we won't know for a while.

He got two firsts and Colin Miller for Lucic so you're way off on what the return was. Miller is arguably one of our top 3 D prospects and I would argue he was good enough to play a lot more this year than he did (one of the reasons I'm ok with firing Julien actually).

And since Lucic almost certainly wasn't going to be signed it is pretty much inarguable that trading him was the right move. It was an exceptional return for a guy who only had a year left before almost certainly walking as a UFA.

And it proved to be the right call btw given that Marchand proved this year that the Lucic money will be better spent on him and that Beleskey could bring a lot of what Lucic brought for a lot less money.

 

[Spanky185]

He might, if he doesn't know he's going to be fired.

But, really, it prolly is a sign that he's staying.

Keep in mind....I'm always wrong about these things!!!

If Claude stays I won't watch next season. More of the same is not worth my time

 

[Over the volcano]

And so many people here were against Chia getting fired at first but over the course of this year, they've embraced it. Imagine that?

In terms of short term decisions, there are different instances. With Iggy, Chia made the mistake of sacrificing future years for a shot at winning now. I can at least understand that since it's motivated by trying to win a cup. The other side of the coin is the Boychuk move that just weakened the team and roster for no other reason than being in cap jail. That kind of move I can't get on board with. Similar to Sweeney moving Lucic for ultimately a pick. He didn't really gain cap space since the B's ate money on the deal, so he weakened the roster in the short term and hopefully gained an asset in the future, but we won't know for a while.

You mean ultimately for two first round picks CMiller and Sean kurlay- all for one season of lucic?

 

[BMC]

good read here on CJ and the position management put him in this year.

http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/...h-don-sweeney-cam-neely-collapse-nhl-playoffs

This article confirms a lot of my thinking. Which is downright scary!

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

And so many people here were against Chia getting fired at first but over the course of this year, they've embraced it. Imagine that?

In terms of short term decisions, there are different instances. With Iggy, Chia made the mistake of sacrificing future years for a shot at winning now. I can at least understand that since it's motivated by trying to win a cup. The other side of the coin is the Boychuk move that just weakened the team and roster for no other reason than being in cap jail. That kind of move I can't get on board with. Similar to Sweeney moving Lucic for ultimately a pick. He didn't really gain cap space since the B's ate money on the deal, so he weakened the roster in the short term and hopefully gained an asset in the future, but we won't know for a while.

A month ago I was touting him for the Jack Adams!

 

[LSCII]

Right the ship in 1 year?

You mean the ship he was sinking since 2011 by falling in love with the roster he built? The B's did not miss playoffs because of one year, it was a culmination of things over the last half of his tenure.

The funny part is that most people seem to think that Sweeeney should have been able to fix Chia's messes in one year.

I didn't think he'd fix it in a year, but I also felt that they really needed a new set of eyes on this roster, the prospect pool, the drafting, and the current NHL player evaluations. I think Sweeney has been a much unwanted continuation of the ground work that Chia set so far. Hopefully if they move on from Julien, they'll go in a different direction and start valuing skilled players, but I'm not all that confident it will happen.

 

[Sturm]

If Claude is going to be fired, at least do it early in the off season so the guy can find a job. Guy was left dangling in the wind last year with no idea what was going on.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

FWIW ,Ray Ferraro just said on TSN Montreal that his son is doing his exit interview with Claude at this very minute. Would a coach that is going to be fired be doing exit interviews?

Is this a repeat of last year ? They will let this non-sense of not confirming Julien's fate happen for months again ? Is Donnie ever going to man up and answer the questions ?