Clarke MacArthur blasts Senators team

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Yeah, but no. Not by a long shot.

There are many reasons why owners are anxious to keep franchises that are apparently losing cash. There is upcoming cash from TV deals. There is also the fact that the value of franchises is appreciating at a faster rate than they are losing cash. Then there are other revenue streams that do not make it into the formal definition of HRR. The true valuation reflects all of these components.

To be sure, the fact that city council did not bend over when Melnyk essentially showed up with a gun and mask puts us at a disadvantage against teams in cities that have already caved in to owner demands. However, that does not make it right to funnel even more cash into a professional sports team.

The Senators hardly showed up with a gun, they filed all the appropriate paperwork but council decided it was more important to prop up the RCR and to forgo the normal process on how to handle these things
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,768
4,186
Ottawa
The Senators hardly showed up with a gun, they filed all the appropriate paperwork but council decided it was more important to prop up the RCR and to forgo the normal process on how to handle these things

I find it hilarious that anyone would side with the City on this matter given their long-standing track record of ineptitude regarding every single matter they get involved in. How does this city's government have even 0.000000001% of credibility with the public? They've made an absolute mess of every single major project they've been involved with. But somehow we're supposed to believe that this is the one thing they got right? Come on.
 

Spez

Registered User
Feb 14, 2013
981
0
Isn't Ottawa's mayor almost as hated as Melnyk is in that city now?
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
Spezza's problem is that he never had a hard ass coach break him of his junior habits. I suppose Jacques was the closest to doing so, but since he left, the philosophy with Spezza has always been "You live with the bad because he's so creative"

So now what are we expecting to happen? Some coach is going to break a 30 year old player?

This is on Murray too.

Blame Murray for a Muckler decision.

By the time Murray arrived in Ottawa the Spezza the hockey player was set in stone.
 

Rodzilla

Registered User
Aug 31, 2010
10,969
3,364
Canada
Mac has been an awesome addition, I'd give him an A+ this year, yeah the team sucked, but he didn't. He has been a real vocal leader and I'd like to have him as a core player that we sign next year for a couple years.

The problem with this team is that they are too comfortable, starting with our leaders. Phillips and Neil are suppose to be leaders but their play on ice has been god damn awful this year it's pathetic. Neil strikes me as a kind of guy who doesn't really like change and that likes his usual routine. Scraps with couple of team mates and you could see in the Ryan videos at the beginning of the year he was really cold. Okay it's speculation and I don't like our vets but it's a feeling I have I am sure I am not the only one. We look like a country club that gets no heat from losing and it pisses me off. I am okay with Spezza because he plays good lately even though he sucked at the beginning (injured and stuff) but our role players and our vets have been awful. People in this team need to realise that it is something to play in the NHL but it should be even harder to stay in the league. Work hard, EVERYDAY, you get paid big bucks to do it
 

StefanW

Registered User
Mar 13, 2013
6,286
0
Ottawa
www.storiesnumberstell.com
The Senators hardly showed up with a gun, they filed all the appropriate paperwork but council decided it was more important to prop up the RCR and to forgo the normal process on how to handle these things

Yes, they did deem it more important to prop up RCR. No they did not forgo process. But whatever, this is not on topic for this thread anyway. I was responding to a point about valuation and where the franchise's appreciation in value comes from. If he is losing money like he says, and if the valuation is poor like you say, then he should sell immediately. If the franchise is appreciating continually through TV deals and other side ventures not captured in HRR then he should keep the franchise while pressing everyone he can, and holding fans hostage when necessary, to try to add more cherries to his pie.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
Spezza is going to keep the C

He had a rough start but he's been money in the home stretch

I'm confident he'll be a fine captain

What does money in the stretch mean exactly?

I grant you Spezza has been skating better, but I'm not sure about the money thing.

How can that possibly apply when the team he leads goes 2-6-2 in the last ten to fall out of the playoff picture?
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
Zibanejad picked it up drastically when the score was out of reach. I've played sports. The easiest games are when you are getting blown out. Or when you are blowing out the other team. He was skating effortlessly through the neutral zone when the rangers had loosened up big time.

WOW

Zibby scored in the first period, had 14 minutes of ES TOI, 3 shots, and two hits, skated really well the whole game, as did his linemates.

The Rangers didn't loosen up until very late in the 2nd period after making it 4 - 2, then in the 3rd it was pretty relaxed and wide open on both sides.

Since you have played sports you know teams, with the possible exception of the Senators, don't relax when ahead by one or two in the 2nd period.
 

Slow Hands

The feels
Feb 3, 2009
2,141
0
Ottawa
What does money in the stretch mean exactly?

I grant you Spezza has been skating better, but I'm not sure about the money thing.

How can that possibly apply when the team he leads goes 2-6-2 in the last ten to fall out of the playoff picture?

You're just begging there question here. We're 2-6-2 in the last ten because of poor team defense, not because of Spezza's leadership qualities.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Yes, they did deem it more important to prop up RCR. No they did not forgo process. But whatever, this is not on topic for this thread anyway. I was responding to a point about valuation and where the franchise's appreciation in value comes from. If he is losing money like he says, and if the valuation is poor like you say, then he should sell immediately. If the franchise is appreciating continually through TV deals and other side ventures not captured in HRR then he should keep the franchise while pressing everyone he can, and holding fans hostage when necessary, to try to add more cherries to his pie.

I brought up valuation because someone was talking about Phoenix

My point was that Phoenix has a ton of room to grow while Ottawa does not

Plus you can also add the insane subsidies the Coyotes are getting from Glendale to the mix

Phoenix is a better position to attract buyers than Ottawa was my point
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
What saddens me is that we still have two more years of Neil and Phillips.

There are so many better options out there.

Spezza I can live with. Yes, he doesn't backcheck as much as some of us would like and yes, he may not be the best person to represent our team symbolically speaking, but he's a hell of an offensive player and at least until Zibanejad and Turris develop more, I don't see any reason at all why we should get rid of him.

The only thing I'm against would be to extend him 5+ years. I'd keep it 3-4 years maximum, but who knows what will happen with Murray and his loyalty.

Looking forward to next year though. If Murray adds a top-four D (fingers crossed), fixes the logjam we have right now with Wiercioch, Phillips, Gryba, Borowiecki all supposed to be playing bottom pairing minutes, things could be good.

Also looking forward to seeing at least one of Lazar/Stone sticking.

One reason, because he isn't going to make enough of a difference to make this team competitive and therefore he is taking a spot from a young player that could develop with the team.

While some may disagree, I think Spezza could bring a pretty decent return in a trade and this would help the team more in the long run than keeping him.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
I brought up valuation because someone was talking about Phoenix

My point was that Phoenix has a ton of room to grow while Ottawa does not

Plus you can also add the insane subsidies the Coyotes are getting from Glendale to the mix

Phoenix is a better position to attract buyers than Ottawa was my point

I believe you are definitely right.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
You're just begging there question here. We're 2-6-2 in the last ten because of poor team defense, not because of Spezza's leadership qualities.

I wasn't begging any question, just wondering what "money down the stretch" meant given the team record of late.

However since you brought it up, how do you know this as fact (bolded)??

What exactly is the purpose of a leader if it is to rally the troops at a critical time?

I have no idea whether Spezza is or isn't a good leader, but from listening to the player interviews this season seldom do they mention the leadership.

Last year it was a constant part of the response as to why the team was unexpectedly doing so well.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Spezza being money down the stretch means I think he's been solid in the last 20 or so games

And I think it's his fault we lost to Nashville: had he backchecked properly Jones wouldn't have gotten to the rebound and passing it to Phillips when he was the last man back was stupid
 

VortexDr

Registered User
Jul 5, 2013
158
1
Yes, they did deem it more important to prop up RCR. No they did not forgo process. But whatever, this is not on topic for this thread anyway. I was responding to a point about valuation and where the franchise's appreciation in value comes from. If he is losing money like he says, and if the valuation is poor like you say, then he should sell immediately. If the franchise is appreciating continually through TV deals and other side ventures not captured in HRR then he should keep the franchise while pressing everyone he can, and holding fans hostage when necessary, to try to add more cherries to his pie.

Yes they did forgo process. The RCR was the auto Casino and dont even get me started on what a **** hole the RCR is...Melnyk never even had a real chance to pitch his idea.

I really don't see the issue...If he sells which I doubt he will be cause he is a fan there wont be any buyers....Who in their right mind would want to purchase a team whose city doesn't even support the team.

Perhaps is Watson did a little less Rainbow flag waving and would look at the actual location of both places involved we wouldnt be having a budget team.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,370
8,175
Victoria
Not sure I agree with this, seems to have been written to excuse or justify the Senators performance this season.

MacArthur is 100% correct, this team just didn't work hard enough in every facet of the game to be successful.

The Senators started the year with an inexperienced defense. Every forward on the team had to be aware of this fact and should have realized it likely required some adjustment to their game to compensate.

For the team to be successful, every player had to give 100% regardless of what categorization you might believe they fall in.

There was no reason for any player to coast or hold back any effort at any time for any reason given the results.

I realize players aren't going to be their best every game over the course of six months, but too many nights it wasn't lack of skill, it was lack of effort.

Lack of effort does equate to lack of pride IMO.

Pride doesn't come from good goaltending, set pairings or categories, it comes from within each individual. It drives people to be as good as they can be.

All season long MacLean has been saying this team doesn't play hard enough or long enough to win. Now MacArthur has confirmed this to be true, but he really isn't the first to indicate effort was lacking.

Both Ryan and Methot have made comments about the work ethic, both have been much less direct therefore weren't media fodder.

Sad as it may be, it seems some players lack pride in the job they do.

Hopefully in this off-season Murray removes these guys and replaces them with players that play for the crest on the front of the sweater and not the reflection they see in the mirror.

Lastly using Chicago as a comparative to make your point is misguided at best.

Chicago rid themselves of there older talent years before adding Toews in 2006 and Kane in 2007 drafts.

At the same time they drafted a few decent players from 2002 and 2005.

Keith & Wisniewski 2002
Seabrooke, Crawford & Byfuglien 2003
Bolland, Bickell & Brouwer 2004
Hjalmarsson 2005

Even after all these quality adds the Blackhawks missed the playoffs in 2007-08.

IMO Ottawa should have used the same approach, ridding themselves of more veterans to move higher in the draft.

If Chicago is the benchmark, then Ottawa needs to upgrades on its top line, and bottom six plus needs 2 - 3 years for the defense to mature.

Based on the time requirement alone, it would make sense to move Spezza, Neil, and Phillips if the opportunity presents itself.

Uhm, I used Kane and Keith as examples of the benefits of having 1 way offensive talent, not sure what you're on about.

As for not agreeing with me, that's cool, I'm not offended, I obviously don't agree with you either. ;)

No excuses are being made here, this is my opinion, and I think it makes a lot more sense than your "they're not trying hard because Spezza sucks" approach. I think people are using this season to support their personal agendas, which for many is to trade Spezza, fire the coach, blame Melnyk, ride Murray, and everything else. All of which is much more sexy than witnessing a perfect storm of a disarray, than stems from key injury returns and a young inexperienced club in the third year of a rebuild.

We don't need more high draft picks, we need to allow our current high draft picks to transition into the NHL and become solid players, as they are seeming to do now.

The difference between goaltending and forwards vs defence is that we have a ton of buffering and mentoring forwards which allows our young forwards a safe transition into the NHL.

Our forwards have many solid pieces, and several vets to help the young guys along. We have a lot of young forward prospects who have been given a chance this year to showcase themselves, and all of them have done well (especially DaCosta in his second call up, and Hoffman currently). The problem is that due to our unexpected success last year, it was assumed that we would go further this year because we simply add a few injury returns for a net gain. Life doesn't work that way at all unfortunately.

Perfect storm: Alfie leaves stunning everyone. This leaves a massive and unexpected void in the dressing room. Eventually Spezza is given the C, which he is excited for, but will still come to see what the added expectations and profile feels like, and that's on top of his already heavy whipping boy burden. He starts of the season recovering from back surgery, and promptly suffers another injury hampering his ability to play the game at his usual level for the first half of the season. Michalek can simply no longer score at his previous level, and looks more like a quality checking winger at this point. Spezza and Ryan don't find instant chemistry, thankfully he does with Turris and MacT so we have one real top six line, and an injured Spezza playing with bottom six wingers. Expectations are extremely high for a top six comprised of 3.5 top six players. Instead of playing a defensive style to protect our young defence, and to make up for the regression of top six talent, we go full possession. Spezza can't keep up, and Greening and Michalek can't play a top six possession game to begin with. The losses start to pile up, and so does the frustration and vitriole that follows a losing team that is falling far short of expectations, never mind how unrealistic the situation is. The one bright spot is that our young forwards get insulated and are given room to grow, despite the rash fans clamouring for them to be inserted into critical roles. In the end, slow return from injury, a huge loss in team identity, and the absolute wrong playing style for the current players lead us to the present. Hemsky and Spezza being healthy have done wonders for the top line, which is good since the second line has disappeared.

Anderson is our starter and shelters Lehner.

Perfect storm: Anderson starts the year cold. Expectations are high after making the second round, but our defence is young and inexperienced and our system isn't designed with that in mind. We give up a ton of high quality chances and our goaltending suffers. Andy isn't able to keep up and goes into a slump. By the time he's able to get his act together, we have lost to many games. His level of play eventually rises, but he is still dealing with a ton of quality chances. The pressures of not meeting last year's levels are clearly there. Fans turn on Andy early.

On D we don't have much of a buffer as we have a high risk offensive young vet in Karlsson, a blue collar defender in Methot, and an aging deffensive D man in Phillips. That leaves 3 important spots to be filled by rookies and sophomores.

Perfect storm: Karlsson coming back from serious Achilles injury, and cannot play the same game his is used to yet. Phillips regresses mightily and is no longer a top 4 defender, yet is still being asked to, and Methot is asked to play above his head. Our three young blueliners have very little in the way of quality on-ice mentorship, nor are they able to be eased into positions given that they are being thrust into important roles. ignoring the rest of the team, a defence like this would be expected to struggle as they learn the game, in the mould of a young rebuilding team filled with rookie. We shouldn't be surprised that they have. The expectations on this young D and their failure to meet them has likely undermined their confidence. I don't see a group of D men out there that don't try, I see a group that once scored on expect to lose.

The problem is that the expectations should not be much higher for this young group then how they are playing, and they defensive system should have been real simple with lots of support from the forwards (especially since this is where the bulk of the high level vets are). They should have been able to apprentice all year knowing that they were expected to grow into their positions NOT excel in them. The pressure of failing expectations is crushing, and the expectations on this team coming from last year, is one that this young D had no chance of meeting.

In sum, for anyone who read it, this is about where we should be given the number of inexperienced players on the roster, the overall inexperience of our defence as a group, the style of play based on previous success rather than current roster, slow return from injury by our two offensive stars, and too many players on the team that aren't good at anything they do.

You want to trade Spezza, when he's about the only player out there doing a ton of what he does best to win games. Try focusing on the guys sucking at what they do best, and/or the guys who don't do anything well. I'm looking at Phillips, Greening, Condra, Ryan (injured?), Michalek (not top 6 anymore), Smith, Neil.
 

Spez

Registered User
Feb 14, 2013
981
0
Martin was heavily criticized though for not playing Spezza in the playoffs vs the leafs when we badly needed a boost on offense. He was worried Spezza would have been too much of a liabilty yet the offense went into the tank in 5 of the 7 games we played vs them. We were fortunate to win 1 game only putting up 2 goals on the board considering the team was giving up 2 goals a game usually.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad