Clarke MacArthur blasts Senators team

Oct 10, 2010
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People still blaming Spezza? He's been much better. There are so many playing way worse than him right now. Didnt we acquire a supposedly 30 goal scorer? Our other first line center has been quiet lately, Zibanejad also has been invisible except last game. Michalek has been useless and same with Cowen. How bout Philoops? And people still blame Spezza?

The only thing that drives me nuts about him is his back checking!

While he's not the only one, he's the captain and should be leading be example by coming back constantly like Mac and Turris do.. Hell, even what looks to be broken down Ryan gives the effort coming back.
 

Kickabrat

WHAT - ME WORRY?
Jul 4, 2004
3,959
0
Ottawa
For those saying who would buy the sens? Well a group bought the coyotes so if the coyotes can be bought then we can be bought as well. Phoenix has had issues with their own city council as well and that didn't stop Gosbee's group from buying the team. In fact they had other owners who tried buying the team at different points so clearly there was interest in them.

People buy sports team for them to become more valuable and sell them off down the road

Considering what we know there doesn't seem to be much potential growth for the Ottawa Senators due to how little "big game" corporate activity goes on in town and that we are sandwhiched between Montreal and Toronto

Phoenix has a ton of room to grow

The two situations are hardly comparable

STOP BRINGING UP PHOENIX AS ANY SORT OF COMPARABLE.

ONE MORE TIME. The city of Glendale is forking over $15M a year after forking over $20M a year to cover some of the operating costs. Yeah, there'd be buyers for the Sens if the city of Ottawa was willing to pony up US $15M a year. When the city won't even listen to proposals for putting a casino next to the stadium, they sure as hell not going to give the team hard cash. A Casino saved the Penguins for Pittsburgh, no such thing happening here. There are NO buyers for the Sens. What corporation will invest in a team and not expect at least a 15-20% return for it's shareholders? NONE. You want Melnyk to increase the budget....BUY MORE TICKETS! And yes I did.
 

Magix

Registered User
Oct 10, 2010
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I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.

Personally, I think Neil is the biggest problem in the room. I do remember a player mentioning that there were two sets of rules in the room, and this was years ago.

Greening for example, doesn't strike me as a guy playing lazy because he has bad leadership. He strikes me as a guy that has marginal talent that had potential largely based on his size.

He scored a big goal with a bloody cheek in the same playoff that fellow scrub Bryan Bickell played way over his head. I think this skewed Murray's already cloudy (at best) judgement, and he figured that he had the next Bryan Bickell on his hands, and therefore rewarded Greening with a contract he isn't worth, and will never earn.

It's not so much that he's taken a step backward, though I think he has, it's that he doesn't have a big forward step in him. He's 28 years old, and has 38 goals in his career.

He is the definition of a scrub. 4th line filler. Lucky to be in the league at all.

Condra is another story. He does almost everything right, but the guy couldn't score in a brothel on 2 for 1 night.

Cowen just plays the game as though he thinks he's already won a Norris. The 3 games off seem to have done him some good, and with his size, which our D is sorely lacking, he's worth some patience. In any case, we have him for 4 more years, so let's hope he can grow into a decent NHL defenseman. He should mature.

Smith is great. Not sure what anyone's issue with him could be. He's probably our only legitimate bottom 6 player in the lineup. Works hard all the time.

I think what we are seeing with Karlsson is just pure frustration. He thinks the game on a level that not many can understand. He has elite level skill. He needs to play with better players.

Guys like that often don't realize that other players don't "get" things the way they do. He is of course human after all.

If I had to sum up the problem with this team in a simple phrase, I would say "No commitment."

I have seen laziness from all of those guys this season. Maybe not as much from cowen as its between the ears for him moreso than anything else. But Greening is the definition of a big guy playing soft and not caring. Smith hasn't been anywhere as consistent since 11-12 in terms of toughness and on the offensive side. Karlsson's might be frustrated but that doesn't excuse him from his lazy plays.

I'll concede that condra might be the hardest worker of this bunch but he is still a scrub that is only good at pk'ing.
 

bacon25

Unenthusiastic User
Nov 29, 2010
3,871
337
Group Study Room F
STOP BRINGING UP PHOENIX AS ANY SORT OF COMPARABLE.

ONE MORE TIME. The city of Glendale is forking over $15M a year after forking over $20M a year to cover some of the operating costs. Yeah, there'd be buyers for the Sens if the city of Ottawa was willing to pony up US $15M a year. When the city won't even listen to proposals for putting a casino next to the stadium, they sure as hell not going to give the team hard cash. A Casino saved the Penguins for Pittsburgh, no such thing happening here. There are NO buyers for the Sens. What corporation will invest in a team and not expect at least a 15-20% return for it's shareholders? NONE. You want Melnyk to increase the budget....BUY MORE TICKETS! And yes I did.

Not to mention the Coyotes will be gone in a few years when the OUT CLAUSE is activated. The current owner got a sweet deal and unless their is a drastic change in their attendance numbers it only delayed the inedible.
 

TeamRenzo

Registered User
Jul 20, 2009
3,164
1,065
Melnyk's sideshow behavior and interference is what I was referring to.

Unless he sells the team, we're stuck with an lunatic with possible alcohol related dementia.

Only a coward would blame the on ice issues with Melnyk's odd behavior. Players need to look in the mirror and ask themselves why they cant get it done. This seasons failures rest solely on the players and coaches.

Murray has assembled a decent team (on paper) the rest is on the coaches and players...get it done!
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,768
4,186
Ottawa
Not to mention the Coyotes will be gone in a few years when the OUT CLAUSE is activated. The current owner got a sweet deal and unless their is a drastic change in their attendance numbers it only delayed the inedible.

47450363.jpg
 

John Holmes*

Guest
Only a coward would blame the on ice issues with Melnyk's odd behavior. Players need to look in the mirror and ask themselves why they cant get it done. This seasons failures rest solely on the players and coaches.

Murray has assembled a decent team (on paper) the rest is on the coaches and players...get it done!

You don't think that a juggalo owner has no effect on what happens on the ice?

Ever heard of Harold Ballard?

Pls go.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,444
16,057
its amazing how some in this fan base overblow a chuckle. Spezza has chuckled when answering a question in the media (not even serious questions). someone laughed..while answering a question. and he gets bashed for it. I don't think anything is more deserving of a giggle than this right here.
 

Still miss Vermette

Registered User
Mar 2, 2013
736
0
Good, he should. He's been one of the very few guys who actually look like they give a **** this season. Extend him in the off season and give him a letter for ****s sake.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Not to mention the Coyotes will be gone in a few years when the OUT CLAUSE is activated. The current owner got a sweet deal and unless their is a drastic change in their attendance numbers it only delayed the inedible.

Username is bacon

Last word in the post is "inedible"

DOES NOT COMPUTE
 

Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
What saddens me is that we still have two more years of Neil and Phillips.

There are so many better options out there.

Spezza I can live with. Yes, he doesn't backcheck as much as some of us would like and yes, he may not be the best person to represent our team symbolically speaking, but he's a hell of an offensive player and at least until Zibanejad and Turris develop more, I don't see any reason at all why we should get rid of him.

The only thing I'm against would be to extend him 5+ years. I'd keep it 3-4 years maximum, but who knows what will happen with Murray and his loyalty.

Looking forward to next year though. If Murray adds a top-four D (fingers crossed), fixes the logjam we have right now with Wiercioch, Phillips, Gryba, Borowiecki all supposed to be playing bottom pairing minutes, things could be good.

Also looking forward to seeing at least one of Lazar/Stone sticking.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,371
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Victoria
Spezza coming to Greening's defence because he knew the cameras were watching? Hahaha, what an embarrassing comment!

One of the main problems on this board is the unrealistic expectations of many posters towards players, likely caused by video games, and the ease of which you can alter teams and manipulate players (by controlling them or changing stats).

There are very few stars in this league compared to the total, and they come in three main types: 1 way offensive players, 1 way defensive players, and 2 way players.

Now, our team has TWO 1 way offensive stars in Spezza and Karlsson. 1 way offensive stars can still play defence, and the can still backcheck, and do, but they're eye is always for the turn over and the transition to offence. They conserve energy in the defensive zone, and blast off driving the offence the moment they have the puck or it changes possession. That is who they are, and how they think the game, that is why they rack up points. You NEED these players to win games.

1 way defensive players are the opposite. They can make a breakout pass and make a big hit when needs be, but their bread and butter is focusing on the defensive zone. They likely won't put up many points, since they are the last out of the zone, but they will balance out the presence of the 1 way offensive players.

2 way players fill the in-between. These forwards will be the first guys back, and the last out of the defensive zone. They rarely drive transitional offence, but are great being the trailer, or working the cycle in the offensive zone. They will also look to cover pinching defencemen. The two-way defenceman plays balanced D follows the transition game with speed, and is activated for pinches and backdoor plays. their speed and decision making allow them a little more freedom in the offensive zone, since they make good choices, and are solid in their own zone.

We have 2 offensive stars, winning teams always have a few of these, and we have one on offence and one on defence. We have a few solid 2 way players smattered through the lineup, which balances out the offence (Turris and MacT with Ryan, Michalek with Hemsky and Spezza, Zib with Hoffman and Condra, GSN line). We can certainly look to upgrade some players if possible, like a more dangerous 2 way forward instead of Michalek or Condra, but I think what we're really missing is 1 way defensive players, guys who take pride in shutting the other teams offence down.

Winning is a team outcome, and to have a winning team we need the proper make up. I think the main issue is that we don't have defined goals in the defensive end. Most of the guys are too young to have a defined role, or they're not being forced into a role (perhaps for development reasons). It's less team defence, and more the fact that it seems like everyone on D is trying to be everything, instead of playing to their strengths. I expect this to change as the young guys begin to establish what kind of players they can actually be at this level of hockey.

Team stability comes from the net out. When our goalies are playing at least average, and our defencemen have established roles within pairings, THEN guys can start having pride in their game, then we can see some solid play. Our forwards are a good group that are ripe to be awesome with a few switches (Stone, Prince, Puempel, Stone, DaCosta, Lazar). It's our D that needs work.

We shouldn't be looking to trade the guys that are stars in important roles (adding another 2 way player in place of our 1 way offensive star is a mistake, think Chicago without Kane or Keith), we need to acquire players that fill roles we lack. Thankfully, we are lacking in the cheapest area of 'starness'.
 
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Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,167
9,909
Well Id never take stock advice from you. You buy at the bottom for the potential, your exactly right, we should be sold out ;)

The point of owning a professional sports team is it's valuation

The Ottawa Senators don't have a lot of room to grow, and even less when you consider how inept our council is when they'd rather prop up the RCR rather than help the Senators
 
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BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,768
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Ottawa
The point of owning a professional sports team is it's valuation

The Ottawa Senators don't have a lot of room to grow, and even less when you consider how inept our council is when they'd rather prop up the RCC rather than help the Senators

Couldn't disagree more. Melnyk bought the team for $92 million and Forbes valued it this year at $380 million. In 10 years, the team has more than tripled in value.

We just signed a huge TV contract. The naming rights for the arena brought in 30-60% more revenue than the previous agreement. And all this despite the fact that the team has struggled performance wise and hasn't yet shown to be a consistent winner that draws sell out crowds.

We have a superstar in Karlsson that could bring us massive marketing opportunities not just in North America but also in Europe.

In another 10 years this team's value will again double, at the minimum, and the NHL will be looking at a new American TV deal that will undoubtedly be significantly bigger than their current pact with NBC.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
Spezza coming to Greening's defence because he knew the cameras were watching? Hahaha, what an embarrassing comment! It was obviously him showing off for Mrs Underwood, I mean their affair is why Fisher was traded right?

One of the main problems on this board is the unrealistic expectations of many posters towards players, likely caused by video games, and the ease of which you can alter teams and manipulate players (by controlling them or changing stats).

There are very few stars in this league compared to the total, and they come in three main types: 1 way offensive players, 1 way defensive players, and 2 way players.

Now, our team has TWO 1 way offensive stars in Spezza and Karlsson. 1 way offensive stars can still play defence, and the can still backcheck, and do, but they're eye is always for the turn over and the transition to offence. They conserve energy in the defensive zone, and blast off driving the offence the moment they have the puck or it changes possession. That is who they are, and how they think the game, that is why they rack up points. You NEED these players to win games.

1 way defensive players are the opposite. They can make a breakout pass and make a big hit when needs be, but their bread and butter is focusing on the defensive zone. They likely won't put up many points, since they are the last out of the zone, but they will balance out the presence of the 1 way offensive players.

2 way players fill the in-between. These forwards will be the first guys back, and the last out of the defensive zone. They rarely drive transitional offence, but are great being the trailer, or working the cycle in the offensive zone. They will also look to cover pinching defencemen. The two-way defenceman plays balanced D follows the transition game with speed, and is activated for pinches and backdoor plays. their speed and decision making allow them a little more freedom in the offensive zone, since they make good choices, and are solid in their own zone.

We have 2 offensive stars, winning teams always have a few of these, and we have one on offence and one on defence. We have a few solid 2 way players smattered through the lineup, which balances out the offence (Turris and MacT with Ryan, Michalek with Hemsky and Spezza, Zib with Hoffman and Condra, GSN line). We can certainly look to upgrade some players if possible, like a more dangerous 2 way forward instead of Michalek or Condra, but I think what we're really missing is 1 way defensive players, guys who take pride in shutting the other teams offence down.

Winning is a team outcome, and to have a winning team we need the proper make up. I think the main issue is that we don't have defined goals in the defensive end. Most of the guys are too young to have a defined role, or they're not being forced into a role (perhaps for development reasons). It's less team defence, and more the fact that it seems like everyone on D is trying to be everything, instead of playing to their strengths. I expect this to change as the young guys begin to establish what kind of players they can actually be at this level of hockey.

Team stability comes from the net out. When our goalies are playing at least average, and our defencemen have established roles within pairings, THEN guys can start having pride in their game, then we can see some solid play. Our forwards are a good group that are ripe to be awesome with a few switches (Stone, Prince, Puempel, Stone, DaCosta, Lazar). It's our D that needs work.

We shouldn't be looking to trade the guys that are stars in important roles (adding another 2 way player in place of our 1 way offensive star is a mistake, think Chicago without Kane or Keith), we need to acquire players that fill roles we lack. Thankfully, we are lacking in the cheapest area of 'starness'.

Not sure I agree with this, seems to have been written to excuse or justify the Senators performance this season.

MacArthur is 100% correct, this team just didn't work hard enough in every facet of the game to be successful.

The Senators started the year with an inexperienced defense. Every forward on the team had to be aware of this fact and should have realized it likely required some adjustment to their game to compensate.

For the team to be successful, every player had to give 100% regardless of what categorization you might believe they fall in.

There was no reason for any player to coast or hold back any effort at any time for any reason given the results.

I realize players aren't going to be their best every game over the course of six months, but too many nights it wasn't lack of skill, it was lack of effort.

Lack of effort does equate to lack of pride IMO.

Pride doesn't come from good goaltending, set pairings or categories, it comes from within each individual. It drives people to be as good as they can be.

All season long MacLean has been saying this team doesn't play hard enough or long enough to win. Now MacArthur has confirmed this to be true, but he really isn't the first to indicate effort was lacking.

Both Ryan and Methot have made comments about the work ethic, both have been much less direct therefore weren't media fodder.

Sad as it may be, it seems some players lack pride in the job they do.

Hopefully in this off-season Murray removes these guys and replaces them with players that play for the crest on the front of the sweater and not the reflection they see in the mirror.

Lastly using Chicago as a comparative to make your point is misguided at best.

Chicago rid themselves of there older talent years before adding Toews in 2006 and Kane in 2007 drafts.

At the same time they drafted a few decent players from 2002 and 2005.

Keith & Wisniewski 2002
Seabrooke, Crawford & Byfuglien 2003
Bolland, Bickell & Brouwer 2004
Hjalmarsson 2005

Even after all these quality adds the Blackhawks missed the playoffs in 2007-08.

IMO Ottawa should have used the same approach, ridding themselves of more veterans to move higher in the draft.

If Chicago is the benchmark, then Ottawa needs to upgrades on its top line, and bottom six plus needs 2 - 3 years for the defense to mature.

Based on the time requirement alone, it would make sense to move Spezza, Neil, and Phillips if the opportunity presents itself.
 

2015

Registered User
Mar 17, 2014
232
0
Team lacks passion and work ethic.

Therefore I don't understand why they let Cony go through waivers. He deserved to stay and play.
 

Wondercarrot

By The Power of Canadian Tire Centre
Jul 2, 2002
8,153
4,000
The Spezza Whisperer? :laugh:

As much as this is about Spezza, it's also about NHLers over 30 in general. Age 30 is usually the top of the mountain, and if guys want the chance of becoming the next Alfredsson or Selanne, they have to start taking a serious look at their overall game and conditioning. It's all part of the life cycle of a pro athlete...that learning curve for every new amateur level, then learning the pro game, refining and polishing, hitting their prime, then onto modifying their game and greater focus on their body and being an overall asset to a team.

I seriously doubt any team in the league would want a 35-year-old guy who doesn't play a 2-way game. Teams will use that roster spot on a kid with upward potential.

but he's 30, not 35.
his last full season was over PPG, played pretty well 2 way and finished top 5 for the Hart.
He had a miserable start to this year coming back from a year off and as you would expect has hit stride in the back half of the season and looks a lot like the guy from 2 years ago now and it show both in his points as well as his D/compete level.
he's going to finish with 75 or 76 games played and over 70pts.

There would be a lineup of teams for him if he ever went UFA, or if the sens are forced to sell low on him.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,596
9,111
MacArthur didn't say anything that a number of us haven't been saying for a long time about this team. I've been complaining about Spezza not competing & not playing well defensively since his first yr on the team. Ryan doesn't compete hard enough & for some reason Karlsson doesn't seem to want to compete or play defensively this yr. Lots of fault & blame to go around & problems this yr we can point our finger at.

The whole team has taken a huge step backwards this yr for whatever reasons & I know there are many. But I could also see this same team with some minor changes, some luck & bounces turn it around next yr as Colorado did this yr from a terrible season the yr before. Same for Annahiem & be a much better playoff contending team with mostly the same players. Maybe it's a major attitude change that is required & it takes a stinker of a season like this to force the players to change their ways, we'll see. If not, a lot of familiar faces will be the next to go next season including management/coaches.
 

StefanW

Registered User
Mar 13, 2013
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Ottawa
www.storiesnumberstell.com
The point of owning a professional sports team is it's valuation

The Ottawa Senators don't have a lot of room to grow, and even less when you consider how inept our council is when they'd rather prop up the RCC rather than help the Senators

Yeah, but no. Not by a long shot.

There are many reasons why owners are anxious to keep franchises that are apparently losing cash. There is upcoming cash from TV deals. There is also the fact that the value of franchises is appreciating at a faster rate than they are losing cash. Then there are other revenue streams that do not make it into the formal definition of HRR. The true valuation reflects all of these components.

To be sure, the fact that city council did not bend over when Melnyk essentially showed up with a gun and mask puts us at a disadvantage against teams in cities that have already caved in to owner demands. However, that does not make it right to funnel even more cash into a professional sports team.
 

Busboy

Registered User
Jul 29, 2011
2,014
0
Yeah, but no. Not by a long shot.

There are many reasons why owners are anxious to keep franchises that are apparently losing cash. There is upcoming cash from TV deals. There is also the fact that the value of franchises is appreciating at a faster rate than they are losing cash. Then there are other revenue streams that do not make it into the formal definition of HRR. The true valuation reflects all of these components.

To be sure, the fact that city council did not bend over when Melnyk essentially showed up with a gun and mask puts us at a disadvantage against teams in cities that have already caved in to owner demands. However, that does not make it right to funnel even more cash into a professional sports team.

Using extreme hyperbole rarely has the desired effect.

Melnyk fought for what he thought was best for the team, himself, and the city. Are we really going to vilify him for not spending enough money and for fighting too hard to bring in more revenue?
 

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