GWT: CL Matchweek 2

[Cassano]

Or he was overrated to begin with?

Ross Barkley isn't a good for a top 6 team.

I still think he is a decent player. Probably in the same category as Pulisic.

 

[Cassano]

Everyone definitely underrated Chelsea's youth players, but Barkley isn't good enough for Chelsea in my opinion. I can't see him playing much when RLC and Kante are both 100% fit.

But not good enough to make bench? It's same thing as Pulisic. Both are bench level players or starters for Everton.

 

[robertmac43]

I still think he is a decent player. Probably in the same category as Pulisic.

Barkley is 25 and likely not growing too much more. Solid depth player in a top 6 side ,.nothing more though.

Pulisic still has time to grow to his ceiling.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I still think he is a decent player. Probably in the same category as Pulisic.

Pulisic should end up the better player of those two, pretty easily imo. Barkley's IQ really holds him back, as he does have some decent raw tools.

 

[Blender]

But not good enough to make bench? It's same thing as Pulisic. Both are bench level players or starters for Everton.

Barkley started on Saturday, and Kante and James were back healthy today. They had a goalie, 2 wingers, a midfielder, a defender, and 2 strikers on the bench today.

 

[Blender]

Pulisic should end up the better player of those two, pretty easily imo. Barkley's IQ really holds him back, as he does have some decent raw tools.

Barkley is such a frustrating player. His movement off the ball is really good which often leaves him open for a quick pass, but he makes terrible decisions with the ball when he tries to do anything but make a safe pass.

 

[Cassano]

Barkley is 25 and likely not growing too much more. Solid depth player in a top 6 side ,.nothing more though.

Pulisic still has time to grow to his ceiling.

Barkley at 20 was good

 

[robertmac43]

Barkley at 20 was good

I think he's still good. Just not top 6 starter good.

 

[Juve]

Is Juve still appealing against one of the titles Inter won a long time ago?

It's not about that.

Technically, Inter never won that trophy.



Is this thread going into a "Arsenal vs Tottenham" type thread?

 

[robertmac43]

Is this thread going into a "Arsenal vs Tottenham" type thread?

Nope just a Pulisic thread at this point.

 

[Live in the Now]

Nope just a Pulisic thread at this point.

I think we need to take this for what it is. The person would rather see Chelsea finish 6th or 7th with Pulisic playing every week than see them finish 3rd or 4th with Pulisic playing about the same as he was at Dortmund and maybe even less. Honestly, so would I, but that's because I hate Chelsea. The reality is that this isn't a video game and nobody in the real world would do that. The FIFA thread where you make a club team with all the Americans playing every game is over that way.

Also, it's getting to the point where I wish we wasted money on Pulisic instead so that I could read this about Mane being picked over him. The whining is delicious. He would barely ever play at the best teams in the league. Probably less than Origi tbh.

It's still early days anyway. He needs to improve from that performance against Sheffield United. He barely looked like a Premier League player there and needs to be far more aggressive. He has been tentative by any real standard a person could use, but he's also not playing and Chelsea won...so it is irrelevant to this thread. The results matter far more than his performance level. It's an absolute fact that Chelsea played shit with him in the team and won games when he wasn't in the team.


Anyway, as for our game....it was 40 of the best minutes I've seen Liverpool play. Godly level football. When you have the left back running into the #9 position with no chance of the opponent counter attacking, the ball being crossed to them and they score like they're a striker, that's perfection in a nutshell. Then Salzburg dominated the second phase and I can't really pinpoint why. They didn't have the ball very much. Gomez and some others made mistakes that were very ruthlessly punished. Only one of the goals was easy and it was the one where he should have tracked Haaland much better. Rest of the game was open and fortunately we had the better chances and won it. I would point out about Salah that we have had the misfortune of Shaqiri getting hurt multiple times, right at the time when Salah needs to rest. He shouldn't have played today, but we can't rotate the team when our only backup player for the right side is injured and we need to win.

Now that being said, he saved our shit with that late winning goal after the team had completely shit the bed. Was a great run and nice finish.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I think we need to take this for what it is. The person would rather see Chelsea finish 6th or 7th with Pulisic playing every week than see them finish 3rd or 4th with Pulisic playing about the same as he was at Dortmund and maybe even less. Honestly, so would I, but that's because I hate Chelsea. The reality is that this isn't a video game and nobody in the real world would do that. The FIFA thread where you make a club team with all the Americans playing every game is over that way.

Also, it's getting to the point where I wish we wasted money on Pulisic instead so that I could read this about Mane being picked over him. The whining is delicious. He would barely ever play at the best teams in the league. Probably less than Origi tbh.

It's still early days anyway. He needs to improve from that performance against Sheffield United. He barely looked like a Premier League player there and needs to be far more aggressive. He has been tentative by any real standard a person could use, but he's also not playing and Chelsea won...so it is irrelevant to this thread. The results matter far more than his performance level. It's an absolute fact that Chelsea played **** with him in the team and won games when he wasn't in the team.


Now that being said, he saved our **** with that late winning goal after the team had completely **** the bed. Was a great run and nice finish.

I have literally done this in the past... buy only Argentinean players. Won the champions league and EPL with River plate lol. It's a blast.

 

[Corto]

Also the narrative that Liverpool beating Spurs in the final isn't impressive is a little strange. Tottenham/Ajax had to come through Real Madrid, Manchester City and Juventus. Liverpool snuffed out Tottenham in the final and completely stifled them but they were no less worthy than other teams in the past of being there based on their run and performances in the CL. At that point domestic form really doesn't matter.

The final was a dull affair, but that doesn't take anything away from what Liverpool have done.
It wasn't a cinderella story either, they made it to the final the year before and were absolutely fantastic for the whole of last season.
It wasn't their fault Madrid imploded, PSG choked and got done by Man Utd B team and a dodgy penalty call, Juve got complacent vs Ajax, City can't get over the hump in the CL, etc.

So, I agree 100%, they are as worthy CL winners as any other team. And in 3 or 5 years time, noone will be mentioning that the final was dull anyway.

I'm also not sold on this Bayern team being much better than last season. They were a strong team last season and are a strong team this season. Coutinho is talented but I doubt that he makes a difference in the really tough games against the top teams. Tolisso didn't impress me and Neuer looks far from the best keeper in the world he once was. I think 7-2 is a bit flattering to Bayern even in that game, tbh.

They're a LOT better IMO.

They are younger, hungrier, faster, more physical. Lucas and Pavard are fantastic buys, Perisic gives them a 3rd winger to play (with Gnabry and Koman), Tolisso is back - and while still finding his form - can be so good in that midfield, Coutinho looks like he's fit in like a glove, Neuer is healthy (it's not just the shot stopping, he is still THE best sweeper keeper in the world, he basically revolutionized and (IMO) has had the most impact on the position since Yashin.

The biggest difference is how they win the ball back now.
The level of aggression, speed, tenacity between Lucas, Pavard, Perisic, etc... compared to last year's Hummels, Ribery, Robben is night and day.

They basically upgraded in 6.5 positions, just quietly. Some through good buys, some through less injuries, and younger guys like Süle, Gnabry and Koman are a year older and a year better.

And the 7-2, of course they were lucky, you have to be lucky to put 7 past the Spurs away.
That doesn't mean they weren't impressive or dominant though.

 

[Live in the Now]

Savage from Martinez, though Gnabry did get it back.

Also the narrative that Liverpool beating Spurs in the final isn't impressive is a little strange. Tottenham/Ajax had to come through Real Madrid, Manchester City and Juventus. Liverpool snuffed out Tottenham in the final and completely stifled them but they were no less worthy than other teams in the past of being there based on their run and performances in the CL. At that point domestic form really doesn't matter.

I'm also not sold on this Bayern team being much better than last season. They were a strong team last season and are a strong team this season. Coutinho is talented but I doubt that he makes a difference in the really tough games against the top teams. Tolisso didn't impress me and Neuer looks far from the best keeper in the world he once was. I think 7-2 is a bit flattering to Bayern even in that game, tbh.

Beating them in one game (in that context) wasn't impressive because we already beat them twice earlier in the season. The one at Wembley was a complete domination where they'd scored without ever really coming close to our goal. I think the chance in the last minute was their only chance., it still ended 2-1, but with 3.4 xG to their 0.9, that one should have been similar to the game Tottenham played against Bayern. Getting to the final two years in a row, on the other hand, and who they beat in those two seasons, on the other hand, is an incredible achievement as is winning the competition.

But in a vacuum, as a supporter, I expected Liverpool to win that game the entire way, and I was disappointed we played as poorly as we did, but they don't have the talent of Liverpool and the last three seasons have showed that. I believe we have 34 more points than them over the course of the last two seasons and the seven games in this one.

What I fail to understand is the lack of reinforcement by Tottenham, and say all you want about N'Dombele, his role is really only that of replacing Dembele, who left last winter. He's better, but that's not relevant because his role is to do what Dembele was doing. They've swapped one midfielder for another while adding Lo Celso and losing a right back. I don't think Sessegnon even played yet and he needs to be loaned out to begin with. The right back situation they have now is absolute shit compared to the one they had. I think they have a good team and that every manager has some weak form, but everyone very well knows the deficiencies of that team by now. Plus, I think it would have been daft to imagine them kicking on to challenge City and Liverpool, and they're only 3 points behind a position in the table where they could realistically be.

People are overreacting and talking about Poch leaving, which is what I would be doing if I was a rival fan. Remember when they were managed by Tim Sherwood? He was their last manager after all. Spurs have consistently hired some horrible managers over the years, or guys who it was perceived would do better at a team with more money, and it never worked.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Dembele is highly unprofessional and is always injured.

Goetze is in the final year of his contract and refuses to take a pay cut.

In both those situations, there are non-sporting reasons keeping them from more playing time.

What’s the non-sporting reason keeping Pulisic from playing? All I’ve heard with the excuses for Lampard is that it’s sporting.

You don't show up at training, you don't put an effort, you will not play.

This is football 101, that's the culture with youngsters and it's completely normal Lampard is implementing it with a roster full of them.

Sorry but Pulisic is not Messi and he can't take things for granted.

 

[maclean]

So, I agree 100%, they are as worthy CL winners as any other team. And in 3 or 5 years time, noone will be mentioning that the final was dull anyway.

I (and I hope everyone) will always remember the manner in which Chelsea won the CL.

That said, for Liverpool it was one game, they played plenty of exciting football up till then and I'll certainly give them the pass, though I think if they'd wanted to they could have given Spurs a thrashing and it's kind of a pity they didn't.

 

[maclean]

Some of you Canadians are very jealous that we have a proven good player at the top level before you guys do. I saw another Canadian who is one of the biggest haters @Pouchkine repped your post. He regularly insults MLS and American players. You guys give Canadian fans a bad name because most of the Canadians who post here aren't haters. You don't see any of us criticizing Davies, David or any of your players, yet a lot of you pour a lot of hate into Pulisic anytime he's mentioned. If this section is going to be shared by Canadians and Americans, you should stop hating on our players for no reason. It'd be very easy for us to hate on Canadian soccer, but we don't do that.

What an argument. The chip on your shoulder gets bigger every post. Have you even noticed that it's people of every single nationality weighing in against you? Personally I've never in my life watched Pulisic play and have no opinion on him whatsoever, but this argument is only really fun to watch if the paragraph count sticks to like 0.5.

(p.s. pouchkine consistently disses every single player and league and though he may reside in canada, his posting profile clearly screams russian)

 

[Incubajerks]

What an argument. The chip on your shoulder gets bigger every post. Have you even noticed that it's people of every single nationality weighing in against you? Personally I've never in my life watched Pulisic play and have no opinion on him whatsoever, but this argument is only really fun to watch if the paragraph count sticks to like 0.5.

(p.s. pouchkine consistently disses every single player and league and though he may reside in canada, his posting profile clearly screams russian)

You can rest assured, he is still a player like there are a thousand around, he is a good player who does not shift the balance, and I repeat, there are a thousand players like him in the same age group.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If you aren't jealous, you wouldn't mention you prefer a Canadian player in the same paragraph you made sure to clarify that weren't jealous.

And besides, who are these Americans I'm arguing against? The guy that says he hates international football and a bunch of Chelsea fans? Have you encountered the average educated USMNT fan and know what their opinion is of Pulisic? I'm not blaming you or any of these people either who are ignorant when it comes to opinions of Pulisic. But at the same time I find it bizarre how some claim I have homerism. This is a pretty basic discussion about Pulisic with people who for the most part don't have much knowledge about the player. I have never considered myself to be particularly high on Pulisic. If someone is ignorant, why would they try to psychoanalyze what someone else thinks. Thats not necessarily directed towards you, more the people who think its a good argument to call me biased.

I'm USMNT fan.

 

[YNWA14]

Catching up on other CL games and nice to see Memphis leading the way for Lyon over Leipzig; big game against a pretty good team (though their defender on Memphis' goal was pretty comical). Ajax goals were great...still think Tadic would have been a savvy buy by Liverpool, very clever pass for the 3rd goal and in general playing up front suits him well. Ziyech is a gem for sure...Ajax doing well to keep him.

 

[robertmac43]

I have literally done this in the past... buy only Argentinean players. Won the champions league and EPL with River plate lol. It's a blast.

I put TFC in the Championship with just Canadian players... The climb to the top was a slow one.

 

[bluesfan94]

I put TFC in the Championship with just Canadian players... The climb to the top was a slow one.

In FIFA 13(?), I turned Barnet into a global superpower using primarily New Zealand footballers

 

[bleedblue1223]

Pshh, I play as the super-clubs, sign a bunch of stars to pre-contracts in January, win everything, and then start completely over after 2 seasons after I get bored out of my mind.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Pshh, I play as the super-clubs, sign a bunch of stars to pre-contracts in January, win everything, and then start completely over after 2 seasons after I get bored out of my mind.

What's the fun in that?

 

[robertmac43]

What's the fun in that?

Global domination from start to finish.