Rumor: City of Surrey wants to build new 10,000 Seat Arena - for relocated Professional Hockey Club

[iceburg]

Seattle will out their AHL team in Palm Springs, CA. That being said the tots AHL teams in Cali to 6 once they arrive.

a Surrey ahl team will have to travel to Cali for all division road games. Not ideal to be that far removed from your division opponents.

I always thought it made more sense to try to put the A team in a place like Long Beach or Fresno or another Cali city.

are there benefits to gain having a team close by?

yes but it am not sure if the A team would draw well if they had to play a home game at the same evening as the Canucks.

how often do the giants play a home game on the same day as the Canucks?

Would make a lot of sense from a travel perspective to have Vancouver place the 7th team in California then.
That said, and again I'm not up on AHL gate revenue, it seems likely that an AHL affiliate in a major Canadian city metropolitan area would draw more than a California team, even with the competing parent club. But I could be completely wrong.
Selfishly I'd like to see them in Surrey. Economically, it might make more sense in California.

 

[Hit the post]

I believe an AHL team could work in Metro Vancouver - as long as it's affiliated with the Canucks. If it isn't no one will care. The Canucks and potential future Canucks are a draw to the diehards.

If it were affiliated with either the Laffs or the Canadians, I think they MIGHT be able to support it. But why would either team rellocate their present AHL affiliate umpteen miles away?

 

[CpatainCanuck]

It has to be the Canucks affiliate or it will fail. There just aren’t a lot of people in the lower mainland who want to spend time and money watching AHL level hockey for its own sake.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

If it were affiliated with either the Laffs or the Canadians, I think they MIGHT be able to support it. But why would either team rellocate their present AHL affiliate umpteen miles away?

Why would an eastern team move their affiliate to the most remote city in the farm league? There are significant travel disadvantages even if the team were to be affiliated with the Canucks.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Nothing but upside for local hockey fans and if you are not a hockey you ain't ****. We are not owners so if it does not work so what?

IMO Surrey needs something like this to bring community together. Any city with own city police should have pro-hockey. I am in North Van and only ventured to PNE once for Giants so I am not going but previously working in Surrey it could use something like this.

 

[iceburg]

It has to be the Canucks affiliate or it will fail. There just aren’t a lot of people in the lower mainland who want to spend time and money watching AHL level hockey for its own sake.

I don't agree. There are lots of people who appreciate watching high level hockey. And, if it's an affiliate of the Canadian NHL team in the same area, lots of fans will be much more engaged in prospect development and success.
Average AHL attendance is around 5000, ranging from 2800 to 9000. Abbotsford Heat attendance ranged from 3000 to 3900 over their lifespan. I have little doubt that a team located in Surrey would bring in North of the AHL average.

 

[Hit the post]

Why would an eastern team move their affiliate to the most remote city in the farm league? There are significant travel disadvantages even if the team were to be affiliated with the Canucks.

That's what I said.

I was only commenting that there are still TONS of Laffans & Habfans in this neck of the woods.

 

[VanJack]

Would make a lot of sense from a travel perspective to have Vancouver place the 7th team in California then.
That said, and again I'm not up on AHL gate revenue, it seems likely that an AHL affiliate in a major Canadian city metropolitan area would draw more than a California team, even with the competing parent club. But I could be completely wrong.
Selfishly I'd like to see them in Surrey. Economically, it might make more sense in California.

I realize that most of us have jetted or driven down to California over the years, but we tend forget just how far it really is. From Vancouver to San Francisco is about 1500 kilometers. And it's another 807 kilometers to get to LA-San Diego. By comparison, it's approximately 2293 kilometers from Vancouver to Winnipeg.

In terms of team travel, California isn't really that close to the Lower Mainland. Just ask the Vancouver Canucks who have to plan these trips all the time. Or ask the City of Abbotsford, which ended up underwriting the losses for the Abbotsford Heat.

For an AHL team on a limited budget, the travel costs in the Western Conference would be a killer. Your prospects would spend most of their time in airports and hotels.

I suppose at the end of the day the Aquilini's own the Utica Comets, so they can do whatever they want with their AHL team. But an AHL team on the Lower Mainland just doesn't make any fiscal or logistical sense imo.

 

[iceburg]

I realize that most of us have jetted or driven down to California over the years, but we tend forget just how far it really is. From Vancouver to San Francisco is about 1500 kilometers. And it's another 807 kilometers to get to LA-San Diego. By comparison, it's approximately 2293 kilometers from Vancouver to Winnipeg.

In terms of team travel, California isn't really that close to the Lower Mainland. Just ask the Vancouver Canucks who have to plan these trips all the time. Or ask the City of Abbotsford, which ended up underwriting the losses for the Abbotsford Heat.

For an AHL team on a limited budget, the travel costs in the Western Conference would be a killer. Your prospects would spend most of their time in airports and hotels.

I suppose at the end of the day the Aquilini's own the Utica Comets, so they can do whatever they want with their AHL team. But an AHL team on the Lower Mainland just doesn't make any fiscal or logistical sense imo.

I've done A LOT of travel for business and can say, from my perspective, West Coast travel is by far the easiest. I used to go to Boston every 6 weeks, NY & Toronto frequently, and California a half a dozen times a year in addition to overseas travel. Time zones make a huge difference. When I can catch a mid afternoon flight in Vancouver and be eating dinner in San Fransciso at 7PM in the same time zone it actually isn't that difficult. You're right though , SF/SJ is a lot closer than LA and San Diego. So it's important have direct flights.

 

[Fatass]

Aren’t there a fancy arenas in Langley and Abbotsford already? Maybe putting one in Surrey could attract three AHL teams?

 

[iceburg]

Aren’t there a fancy arenas in Langley and Abbotsford already? Maybe putting one in Surrey could attract three AHL teams?

I don't know about you but my limit for traveling regularly to a game is 30 minutes, 45 minutes at most. I'd bet that 90% of the population in the greater Vancouver area either lives in Surrey or is at least 30 minutes away from Langley and certainly from Abbotsford.

 

[VanJack]

I've done A LOT of travel for business and can say, from my perspective, West Coast travel is by far the easiest. I used to go to Boston every 6 weeks, NY & Toronto frequently, and California a half a dozen times a year in addition to overseas travel. Time zones make a huge difference. When I can catch a mid afternoon flight in Vancouver and be eating dinner in San Fransciso at 7PM in the same time zone it actually isn't that difficult. You're right though , SF/SJ is a lot closer than LA and San Diego. So it's important have direct flights.

The problem isn't time zones or hours in the air....it's the fact that in an 82 game schedule, you play half your games on the road. And Vancouver's position as a geographic outlier, means long arduous road-trips not just to Southern California, but also to places like Denver, Tuscon, Las Vegas, and Texas and even to Chicago and Rockford, which all play in the Western Conference. Their travel might actually be worse than the Canucks, because you can only get to some of these places by connecting in Seattle.

Currently the Utica Comets play in the AHL's Northern Division with Syracuse, Rochester, Cleveland Toronto, Belleville, Laval and Binghampton. And some teams in the Atlantic Conference are also on a bus-ride away. The schedule is heavily weighted towards weekend games, so your prospects have lots of time during the week for practice and drills.

Will say it again, an AHL team in the Lower Mainland would be a poor choice if the goal of your AHL farm team is to develop young players for your NHL club.

 

[iceburg]

The problem isn't time zones or hours in the air....it's the fact that in an 82 game schedule, you play half your games on the road. And Vancouver's position as a geographic outlier, means long arduous road-trips not just to Southern California, but also to places like Denver, Tuscon, Las Vegas, and Texas and even to Chicago and Rockford, which all play in the Western Conference. Their travel might actually be worse than the Canucks, because you can only get to some of these places by connecting in Seattle.

Currently the Utica Comets play in the AHL's Northern Division with Syracuse, Rochester, Cleveland Toronto, Belleville, Laval and Binghampton. And some teams in the Atlantic Conference are also on a bus-ride away. The schedule is heavily weighted towards weekend games, so your prospects have lots of time during the week for practice and drills.

Will say it again, an AHL team in the Lower Mainland would be a poor choice if the goal of your AHL farm team is to develop young players for your NHL club.

My comment was based only on California in division trips. And an assumption based on the response thread that we were discussing the comparison between a California-based team and a Vancouver-based team. Clearly, travel for Utica is far superior by comparison.

 

[Bubbles]

An arena in downtown Surrey would definitely work, as there are many skytrain and bus links, so people can enjoy themselves with liquor without worries. The Vancouver Giants get less than half of their attendance in their heydays in 2005. Maybe they would move there.

The Abbotsford Heat had abysmal attendance numbers, and they were also the Flames affiliate, I don't think Canucks fans like going to those.

 

[lawrence]

terrible idea.

 

[bandwagonesque]

It has to be the Canucks affiliate or it will fail. There just aren’t a lot of people in the lower mainland who want to spend time and money watching AHL level hockey for its own sake.

I bets there's tons of people who would. You can see well-known prospects and fringe NHL players for $10-40. But yes, there's no question it would be more popular if it was the Canucks' AHL affiliate. Plenty of people with season's tickets to the Canucks would go there on off nights whenever the games were staggered.

 

[bandwagonesque]

An arena in downtown Surrey would definitely work, as there are many skytrain and bus links, so people can enjoy themselves with liquor without worries. The Vancouver Giants get less than half of their attendance in their heydays in 2005. Maybe they would move there.

The Abbotsford Heat had abysmal attendance numbers, and they were also the Flames affiliate, I don't think Canucks fans like going to those.

Abbotsford is a 60km drive from Vancouver, which most attendees would have to make just following rush hour. I think that killed attendance.

 

[Paulinbc]

Surrey Riot.

 

[StreetHawk]

My comment was based only on California in division trips. And an assumption based on the response thread that we were discussing the comparison between a California-based team and a Vancouver-based team. Clearly, travel for Utica is far superior by comparison.

If it we my choice I would target anAHL affiliate in California with the other west coast teams. You don’t need to have the ahl club next door. But find a city in Cali like the old IHL long beach ice dogs who would fly out of one of the big airports in LA allows you to get a call up to Vancouver after practice and onto a plane in the early afternoon and arrive before 5pm.

can an ahl club draw well in Surrey in the same weekend night that the Canucks play?

 

[Jyrki]

The Canucks don't sell out when the team's doing bad. Vancouver also has an WHL team. The AHL didn't work out in the Fraser Valley. In what world can Surrey support a pro franchise? This seems like strictly a deal to defraud taxpayers for the benefit of real estate moguls.

The arena makes a lot of sense with the argument from the article.

If they can turn the complex into a giant community centre instead of just a stadium, this has potential. People who live in surrounding areas would vote for this, not only would this offer them economic value in increasing their home values, it would be a great community building.

Then build a bloody community center, not an arena.

 

[Bougieman]

We're not even sure how many YEARS it's going to be before we can start shoving tens of thousands of people in the same room safely again, and they're planning on building more arenas? Maybe lets focus on coming up with ways to keep the ones we already have for a bit before jumping all over this.

 

[bandwagonesque]

It's also worth remembering that Seattle will need an AHL affiliate as well, making it more practical for a proposed lower mainland Canucks affiliate to take fewer road swings out east. Two more teams would have the AHL at 11 from Texas west, with most of those in grouped closely in California and the southwest.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The Canucks don't sell out when the team's doing bad. Vancouver also has an WHL team. The AHL didn't work out in the Fraser Valley. In what world can Surrey support a pro franchise? This seems like strictly a deal to defraud taxpayers for the benefit of real estate moguls.



Then build a bloody community center, not an arena.

You think that team being the Abbotsford FLAMES had something to do with it?

 

[Interior Cascadian]

Has Seattle confirmed where their AHL affiliate will play?

Palm Springs, although it looks like their original plans for an arena location fell through and they’re working on a spot closer to Palm Desert now.

245 miles south of Death Valley.

 

[Pure West]

I think it makes more sense for the Giants than it does for an AHL affiliate. I have never been a big fan of having an AHL team locally as the travel for a team is absolutely abysmal and expensive. It may make sense from a business point of view, but the #1 priority of your AHL team should be player development, and a big piece of that is practice time rather than having them spend entire days travelling around the continent. In Utica, they have a team basically in the exact geographic centre of the entire Eastern Conference, all within a 4-5 hour drive max.

The Giants haven't had good attendance in Langley, but a Surrey arena would be more central and provide transit access to Vancouverites and people from the closer burbs.