Proposal: Chychrun to Anaheim

[rt]

For Anaheim's Choice of Either of the Below:


A. Comtois + Zellweger + 22nd Overall

or

B. Comtois + Perreault + 10th Overall


Please feel free to flame me. And go ahead and vote while you're at it.

Click to read more...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trade B looks really good to both sides IMO

 

[tomd]

OP is persistent if nothing else.

Why would Anaheim want to acquire Chychrun now when they are as likely to make the playoffs in the next two years as Arizona is?

Why would Chychrun be happy going from one rebuilding team to another rebuilding team?

How does this trade make sense at all? Can that be an option to pick???

 

[Empoleon8771]

OP is persistent if nothing else.

Why would Anaheim want to acquire Chychrun now when they are as likely to make the playoffs in the next two years as Arizona is?

Why would Chychrun be happy going from one rebuilding team to another rebuilding team?

How does this trade make sense at all? Can that be an option to pick???

Because Chychrun is a cost controlled 24 year old top pair D.

The idea that this website has where the only way to become good is to try to be as bad as possible is just weird to me. They would be acquiring Chychrun to be the future core with Drysdale, Zegras and Terry.

 

[tomd]

Because Chychrun is a cost controlled 24 year old top pair D.

The idea that this website has where the only way to become good is to try to be as bad as possible is just weird to me. They would be acquiring Chychrun to be the future core with Drysdale, Zegras and Terry.

Compare the Anaheim roster right now with Arizona's and tell me if they are any different in talent level.

Why does Anaheim give up assets that are cost cost controlled for a decade for a player who cost controlled for 3 years? Especially when the team isn't close to making the playoffs for at least another 2 years?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Compare the Anaheim roster right now with Arizona's and tell me if they are any different in talent level.

Why does Anaheim give up assets that are cost cost controlled for a decade for a player who cost controlled for 3 years? Especially when the team isn't close to making the playoffs for at least another 2 years?

1. Yes, Anaheim's roster is on a higher talent level than Arizona
2. Anaheim is acquiring Chychrun with the intent of him being their top pair D for the next decade. This is a classic case of overrating the shit out of prospects. You acquire Chychrun instead of keeping the prospects because Chychrun is a young and established elite player, while the prospects are just magic beans.

It's just mind boggling to argue that acquiring a 24 year old top pair D doesn't make sense for you team because "we're trying to suck!". Every single team in hockey would be interested in Chychrun because Chychrun is a perfect fit on any team due to his age, contract and ability. He fits both rebuilding teams and win-now teams.

Any team acquiring Chychrun is acquiring him with the thought that he'll be the top pair LD for as long as they can possibly have him.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Because Chychrun is a cost controlled 24 year old top pair D.

The idea that this website has where the only way to become good is to try to be as bad as possible is just weird to me. They would be acquiring Chychrun to be the future core with Drysdale, Zegras and Terry.

In terms of asset management for a rebuilding team, it's risky to just assume he can be locked up to a reasonable extension as an impending UFA. It would be a completely different story if his contract expired in one of the next two summers and he was still under RFA control.

He isn't necessarily a long term asset. You get him for three years and then he may want to test the open market. Anaheim may very well still be in rebuild mode for two or three of those years. At that point they've essentially paid a premium to rent him, and possibly have to sell him for much less (or lose him for nothing).

If the Ducks are forking over this type of package, it needs to be for a player they have RFA control over, to ensure they can be apart of this core for 5+ years with a long term deal.

 

[tomd]

1. Yes, Anaheim's roster is on a higher talent level than Arizona
2. Anaheim is acquiring Chychrun with the intent of him being their top pair D for the next decade. This is a classic case of overrating the shit out of prospects. You acquire Chychrun instead of keeping the prospects because Chychrun is a young and established elite player, while the prospects are just magic beans.

It's just mind boggling to argue that acquiring a 24 year old top pair D doesn't make sense for you team because "we're trying to suck!". Every single team in hockey would be interested in Chychrun because Chychrun is a perfect fit on any team due to his age, contract and ability. He fits both rebuilding teams and win-now teams.

Any team acquiring Chychrun is acquiring him with the thought that he'll be the top pair LD for as long as they can possibly have him.

And that could be as little as 3 years. No thanks. There is a team right up the road from Anaheim that really needs a LHD and is in their playoff window. Try them.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

In terms of asset management for a rebuilding team, it's risky to just assume he can be locked up to a reasonable extension as an impending UFA. It would be a completely different story if his contract expired in one of the next two summers and he was still under RFA control.

He isn't necessarily a long term asset. You get him for three years and then he may want to test the open market. Anaheim may very well still be in rebuild mode for two or three of those years. At that point they've essentially paid a premium to rent him, and possibly have to sell him for much less (or lose him for nothing).

If the Ducks are forking over this type of package, it needs to be for a player they have RFA control over, to ensure they can be apart of this core for 5+ years with a long term deal.

On that end I think its a risk you have to take. You're not getting a top pairing caliber guy on an entry level or one with that many years remaining, so three years of control is probably the most you can bank on if you're trading for someone. Your other options would be hoping someone like Zellweger or maybe someone taken 10th turns into that guy or trading for an ELC type who you hope turns into that guy. I think the risks on trading for Chychrun are far lesser than that.

That's just the flight risk angle. What to give up for him and all that is another story.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Pretty fair value I think the question is would Chychrun be willing to stay long term in Anaheim.

He’s young enough to be part of what they’re building, I don’t see why he would not. Unless he hates Southern California

 

[tomd]

Pretty fair value I think the question is would Chychrun be willing to stay long term in Anaheim.

He’s young enough to be part of what they’re building, I don’t see why he would not. Unless he hates Southern California

Isn't Arizona building something as well? Why doesn't he want to stay there? Neither team is going to make the playoffs next year so what is the advantage going from one lottery team to another? Isn't there an actual playoff bound team that the OP can try to pawn him off on? Seriously, the OP is just looking at the team with the highest pick and best prospects and trying to force a match. The match isn't there.

 

[rt]

I’ll just do a blanket justification of my reasoning:

Anaheim’s best “future” assets will almost all be playing professionally next season, and most of them in the NHL. (Zegras, McTavish, Lundestrom, Drysdale, Dostal, etc).

Arizona is a few years behind that.

Anaheim is at a phase in their rebuild where they need to decide whether it’s time to take another step backward and keep filling the cupboards or another step forward and start progressing toward playoffs.

Trading some of their lesser/longer term assets for a very young, core roster player, aligns with the latter strategy. It doesn’t align with the former.

If Anaheim decided to trade Zellweger+10 or Perreault+22, they’d still have whichever set they didn’t move. I’d say hang onto that set. And the rest of the young assets. Make some smart free agency signings and let the core grow into a winning environment. They’ve got the capspace to give Forsberg or Gaudreau a ridiculous contract, too.

They could be competitive right away and still have all their best assets be under 25. It’s not a bad spot.

Isn't Arizona building something as well? Why doesn't he want to stay there? Neither team is going to make the playoffs next year so what is the advantage going from one lottery team to another? Isn't there an actual playoff bound team that the OP can try to pawn him off on? Seriously, the OP is just looking at the team with the highest pick and best prospects and trying to force a match. The match isn't there.

Arizona is at least three years behind where a while is today.

Pretty fair value I think the question is would Chychrun be willing to stay long term in Anaheim.

He’s young enough to be part of what they’re building, I don’t see why he would not. Unless he hates Southern California

With Chychrun and a key free agent signing, Anaheim would be in the mix with LA for the playoffs next season. Arizona will still be losing on purpose to get the best pick.

 

[bsu]

This ship has sailed imo.

 

[Duck Off]

The value isn't far off, but I don't think Anaheim does either. If I were picking, I'd go with option B because I think Zellweger is going to be a stud.

I think Anaheim's offer (if they're interested, which depends on what stage in the rebuild PV thinks we're in) would be

22nd overall
one Comtois/Milano/Jones (I'd prefer to trade Milano myself)
Perreault
another prospect not named Zellweger or McTavish

I'm aware other teams can beat that

 

[tomd]

I’ll just do a blanket justification of my reasoning:

Anaheim’s best “future” assets will almost all be playing professionally next season, and most of them in the NHL. (Zegras, McTavish, Lundestrom, Drysdale, Dostal, etc).

Arizona is a few years behind that.

Anaheim is at a phase in their rebuild where they need to decide whether it’s time to take another step backward and keep filling the cupboards or another step forward and start progressing toward playoffs.

Trading some of their lesser/longer term assets for a very young, core roster player, aligns with the latter strategy. It doesn’t align with the former.

If Anaheim decided to trade Zellweger+10 or Perreault+22, they’d still have whichever set they didn’t move. I’d say hang onto that set. And the rest of the young assets. Make some smart free agency signings and let the core grow into a winning environment. They’ve got the capspace to give Forsberg or Gaudreau a ridiculous contract, too.

They could be competitive right away and still have all their best assets be under 25. It’s not a bad spot.


Arizona is at least three years behind where a while is today.


With Chychrun and a key free agent signing, Anaheim would be in the mix with LA for the playoffs next season. Arizona will still be losing on purpose to get the best pick.

When you say Anaheim will be in the playoffs next season with Chychrun and some unnamed key FA then it tells me there is no hope for this discussion.

I'll save myself the aggravation and just put this thread on ignore. Happy daydreaming.

 

[Duck Off]

I’ll just do a blanket justification of my reasoning:

Anaheim’s best “future” assets will almost all be playing professionally next season, and most of them in the NHL. (Zegras, McTavish, Lundestrom, Drysdale, Dostal, etc).

Arizona is a few years behind that.

Anaheim is at a phase in their rebuild where they need to decide whether it’s time to take another step backward and keep filling the cupboards or another step forward and start progressing toward playoffs.

Trading some of their lesser/longer term assets for a very young, core roster player, aligns with the latter strategy. It doesn’t align with the former.

If Anaheim decided to trade Zellweger+10 or Perreault+22, they’d still have whichever set they didn’t move. I’d say hang onto that set. And the rest of the young assets. Make some smart free agency signings and let the core grow into a winning environment. They’ve got the capspace to give Forsberg or Gaudreau a ridiculous contract, too.

They could be competitive right away and still have all their best assets be under 25. It’s not a bad spot.


Arizona is at least three years behind where a while is today.


With Chychrun and a key free agent signing, Anaheim would be in the mix with LA for the playoffs next season. Arizona will still be losing on purpose to get the best pick.

I agree with most of this (though I think Anaheim will stay away from the 2 large contracts you mentioned). However, I agree because I think Anaheim is in the stage of the rebuild you mentioned. tomd (and a few others) think we're still in the early stages, which is 100% fine. Truthfully we don't know what stage of the rebuild we're in, but we'll find out this offseason.

 

[rt]

I agree with most of this (though I think Anaheim will stay away from the 2 large contracts you mentioned). However, I agree because I think Anaheim is in the stage of the rebuild you mentioned. tomd (and a few others) think we're still in the early stages, which is 100% fine. Truthfully we don't know what stage of the rebuild we're in, but we'll find out this offseason.

But you voted Bad Fit?

 

[Duck Off]

But you voted Bad Fit?

Yeah i understand the questioning that. I thought it was the best option for my view. Neither team gets robbed. Although the value is fair, I don't think Anaheim should give up quite that much because not sure the time is right. I figured if I voted the bottom one, it implied I'd do one of those deals as is.

 

[Kaibur]

I voted bad fit because if we're trading Chychrun, I really want a center to be the dominant piece in return. But I'm guessing @rt that you are thinking of this in regard to who might be sitting at pick 10 and how badly they might want Gauthier. And I get that thinking too.

 

[Grimes]

As an outsider and Yotes fan who ended up watching more Ducks games than expected (Zegras and Drysdale are so much fun and we aren't in the same division!) I was very surprised at how coherent the team looked and the kids took a huge step. I think Chychrun would be a great fit for the Ducks due to his age and the idea that he can help prop the team up a bit during the next potential transition year.

Couple things though.
1. I would rather us keep Chychrun but our GM has pretty much made it clear that is not happened. I like this trade because getting a great defensive prospect or center back feel like a must if we trade Chychrun. Also there is great supplemental value in the picks. That's the AZ side.
2. I thought the teams were better fits pre trade deadline. Seeing Rakel and Lindholm move was somewhat surprising and it does make me think the org would rather get another top 10 pick next year before turning the corner.
3. But there should be some very appealing UFA's this year as mentioned. And I thought the team very much performed better then expected. Losing stings for players, fans and owners. Without Getzlaf theres a leadership role void that Chychrun could fit into. With Lindholm gone there are a lot of minutes to be soaked up, Chychrun can help ensure Drysdale doesn't take a step back. Adding a top young player like him allows the team to add MacTavish and with more ease.

I can see where Duck fans and management may lean on one more year of stink, but this is an opportunity that doesn't always appear (25 year old top defenseman signed to a team friendly contract who is on the market).

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Trade him to someone who's further along in their rebuild. They need multiple pieces to be relevant again, so trading away multiple young, cost controlled assets for one piece, seems like a step backwards. If the one piece had more long-term control, that could be different. If they had resigned Lindholm, then this move would've been much more of a fit.

 

[Static]

The injuries are an issue. That's a huge package to pay for a guy who has missed significant time in almost every season he's played.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

As an outsider and Yotes fan who ended up watching more Ducks games than expected (Zegras and Drysdale are so much fun and we aren't in the same division!) I was very surprised at how coherent the team looked and the kids took a huge step. I think Chychrun would be a great fit for the Ducks due to his age and the idea that he can help prop the team up a bit during the next potential transition year.

Couple things though.
1. I would rather us keep Chychrun but our GM has pretty much made it clear that is not happened. I like this trade because getting a great defensive prospect or center back feel like a must if we trade Chychrun. Also there is great supplemental value in the picks. That's the AZ side.
2. I thought the teams were better fits pre trade deadline. Seeing Rakel and Lindholm move was somewhat surprising and it does make me think the org would rather get another top 10 pick next year before turning the corner.
3. But there should be some very appealing UFA's this year as mentioned. And I thought the team very much performed better then expected. Losing stings for players, fans and owners. Without Getzlaf theres a leadership role void that Chychrun could fit into. With Lindholm gone there are a lot of minutes to be soaked up, Chychrun can help ensure Drysdale doesn't take a step back. Adding a top young player like him allows the team to add MacTavish and with more ease.

I can see where Duck fans and management may lean on one more year of stink, but this is an opportunity that doesn't always appear (25 year old top defenseman signed to a team friendly contract who is on the market).

I think some duck fans are obsessed with the idea of not doing much this offseason, they want to be in bottom 5 this year. Which could be what PV wants to do... and we might not make any significant moves... just help teams out with cap issues for assets, and maybe some good depth/role players/locker room leaders, possibly trying to steal a player or 2 for 2nds like the burakovsky/toews trade.

Personally i think if a top player is available, and the cost is within reason, why not? But i dont think chychrun is nearly as good as his current ask. Im not sure Chychrun is even better than fowler... Then we have Vaaks, Benoit, Zellweger, Thrun, Lacombe etc. Prob a 50/50 chance were going left handed dmen at 10. While right now he fills a need, im not sure hes worth the assets from us, given our window doesnt really coincide with the part of chychrun that makes his value so high, his contract. I think Arizona will get much better value from teams where his cap will be a big bonus.

 

[jmelm]

Just for fun, how about this proposal that may be more palatable to the Ducks because they don’t include a Zellweger/Perrault:

- 10th overall
- Calle Clang
- Drew Helleson
- 2023 2nd round pick (highest of the 3 ANA has)

Helleson gives them a guy who most believe is a future 2nd pairing RD with size which is a need, who would make for a good more defensive oriented partner for Moser.

Clang could be their goalie of the future. Legit #1 starter potential, which ARI doesn’t have in their pipeline. (ANA could probably let him go because they have Dostal)

2nd in 2023 gives ARI a high 2nd in what’s supposed to be an exceptionally good draft, which they would like to stockpile more picks in since they have plenty already in 2022 & 2024.

And the centrepiece of 10th overall (which along with Helleson), would allow ARI to really rebuild their D core, which could look like this with ARI’s choice of the best available LD available at #10 — one of Korchinski/Mintyukov/Pickering:

#10 pick — Soderstrom
Moser — Helleson
Kolyachonok — Timmons

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I think some duck fans are obsessed with the idea of not doing much this offseason, they want to be in bottom 5 this year. Which could be what PV wants to do... and we might not make any significant moves... just help teams out with cap issues for assets, and maybe some good depth/role players/locker room leaders, possibly trying to steal a player or 2 for 2nds like the burakovsky/toews trade.

Personally i think if a top player is available, and the cost is within reason, why not? But i dont think chychrun is nearly as good as his current ask. Im not sure Chychrun is even better than fowler... Then we have Vaaks, Benoit, Zellweger, Thrun, Lacombe etc. Prob a 50/50 chance were going left handed dmen at 10. While right now he fills a need, im not sure hes worth the assets from us, given our window doesnt really coincide with the part of chychrun that makes his value so high, his contract. I think Arizona will get much better value from teams where his cap will be a big bonus.

I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it. We have probably the least amount of veteran talent since the Samueli's bought the team and it's in a year with a generational talent. If you're a believer in "rebuilding the right way", is that the year you want to see the building start?

As for Chychrun, I'm a bit skeptical teams will pony up more for him because of his great contract given they rarely have in the past, even if I think they should. I think its a fairly level playing field in that sense where everyone's just valuing him for the player he is.