Rumor: Chychrun Megathread (Asking price has been met per Sportsnet)

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XX

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Oh yeah and that whole VGK 1st = STL 1st may not be true. Don't forget VGK is about to add Eichel to their lineup. If there is one team who could bump COL out in the first two rounds of the Yoffs it's them.

The prospect(s) are a lot more likely to be the deal maker/breaker for BA. You have to be comfortable with the projected pick but it's still an unknown quantity until the draft order is settled. The players coming back are more tangible and where scouts are going to feel they have the best read. There are probably some names we're considering that they dislike and some we haven't mentioned they are probably very interested to nab.

Give me a YES or a NO

No. Sub Bolduc for Kostin and it's probably a yes.
 
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rt

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Not convinced Krebs is better than Neighbors yet. He is starting to come around, but that 2020 class is starting to look as good as the hype was. Plus we know Neighbors and Guenther have great chemistry. I know it's debated and disputed all the time here that junior chemistry means nothing in the big league, but how often are junior line mates brought together in the NHL. Let alone two players who were in the first half of the 1st round.

Neighbors looks like a 50p winger with a ton of intangibles that helps coaches with flexibility in line combos. That's pretty cool. But if we have the added bonus of him and Guenther continuing their familiarity and chemistry here than maybe there is added value. Say Guenther helps Neighbors be a 60p winger ala Matty Tkachuck-lite and Neighbors helps Guenther play center at a 60p clip. Then does this raise his value? I know its a ton of question marks and hypotheticals but I sure like Neighbors a hell of a lot more than Swayman/Knight being the main piece. I also wouldn't mind BA getting some guys he drafted in STL back on this roster. We know he likes the player already.
I’m a huge Krebs fan. I might take him 5th or 6th overall in this draft. I’d take him over Brandt Clarke or even Seth Jarvis, at this point. Big, big Krebs fan.
 

rt

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The prospect(s) are a lot more likely to be the deal maker/breaker for BA. You have to be comfortable with the projected pick but it's still an unknown quantity until the draft order is settled. The players coming back are more tangible and where scouts are going to feel that have the best read. There are probably some names we're considering that they dislike and some we haven't mentioned they are probably very interested to nab.



No. Sub Bolduc for Kostin and it's probably a yes.
I don’t think I’d trade any of our 2nds for Bolduc. I’ve seen him play maybe a dozen times this season and I don’t like him much at all, honestly. Not a fan at all.

Conversely, I really LOVE Neighbors. I’d take Neighbors alone over Bolduc, Kostin, and that 2nd.
 

Grimes

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Alright, which of you would do this trade?

To STL:
Chychrun

To ARI:
Scandella (dump)
Kostin
Neighbors
‘22 1st
‘23 2nd

Give me a YES or a NO

Put in Perunovich instead of Kotsin and then you got a Yes by me at this point. I do not want a Knight/Swayman deal. And I like Neighbors more than Turcotte at this point. Only a Clarke, Lundell, Schneider deal beats this one to me.
 

XX

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I don’t think I’d trade any of our 2nds for Bolduc. I’ve seen him play maybe a dozen times this season and I don’t like him much at all, honestly. Not a fan at all.

Conversely, I really LOVE Neighbors. I’d take Neighbors alone over Bolduc, Kostin, and that 2nd.

When did the ask drop to a late 1st + A + B?
 

Matias Maccete

Chopping up defenses
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Alright, which of you would do this trade?

To STL:
Chychrun

To ARI:
Scandella (dump)
Kostin
Neighbors
‘22 1st
‘23 2nd

Give me a YES or a NO
Hell no. I want a top prospect on par with Byfield. We have 0 reason to move Chychrun so it should require a giant overpay. If we do have reason to trade him (he's quietly requested a trade or something) then I guess so. But I'd be livid at Armstrong for not finding a way to convince Chychrun to stick around.
 

Grimes

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The prospect(s) are a lot more likely to be the deal maker/breaker for BA. You have to be comfortable with the projected pick but it's still an unknown quantity until the draft order is settled. The players coming back are more tangible and where scouts are going to feel that have the best read. There are probably some names we're considering that they dislike and some we haven't mentioned they are probably very interested to nab.

Agreed especially Euro players we haven't seen much. But I think the point I'm making is a 24th pick is better than a 30th pick. We have 5 2nd's. We can use many of those to move from 30th to 20th grab someone we love or use less to move from 24th to 20th to grab the same guy. I feel like this years draft will be all about filling out our roster and to collect trade chips unless we win Wright. Next year will be all about the piece the entire team is built around.
 

Grimes

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Hell no. I want a top prospect on par with Byfield. We have 0 reason to move Chychrun so it should require a giant overpay. If we do have reason to trade him (he's quietly requested a trade or something) then I guess so. But I'd be livid at Armstrong for not finding a way to convince Chychrun to stick around.

Unfortunately I don't think that is the reality of the situation. I think we all want a Byfield level prospect for him, because that is the level of player he is. But for some reason we are talking about moving him pretty heavily and I think at this point the conversation needs to be what you wouldn't quit watching the team over, rather than what is "fair".
 

XX

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Agreed especially Euro players we haven't seen much. But I think the point I'm making is a 24th pick is better than a 30th pick. We have 5 2nd's. We can use many of those to move from 30th to 20th grab someone we love or use less to move from 24th to 20th to grab the same guy. I feel like this years draft will be all about filling out our roster and to collect trade chips unless we win Wright. Next year will be all about the piece the entire team is built around.

As counterintuitive as it may seem, I think a room full of scouts is more likely to hold steady and use their picks due to confidence in how their list is ordered. Someone might fall out of a tier they aren't supposed to be in, sure, but the system is largely devoid of talent. At that point, quantity has a quality of its own.

I think BA has a list of players he wants in a Chychrun trade and isn't willing to deviate much from it. There's probably at least one guy from each calling team that is nonnegotiable.

Teams could close a "basket of value" trade really easily. I think it'd be done already. It's just that BA is asking for the good kush, so teams are hesitant. They're going to try everything to avoid paying that price.
 

rt

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When did the ask drop to a late 1st + A + B?
Huh? I’m saying that I think Neighbors is a WAY better prospect than Bolduc, is all.

Bolduc reminds me of Nick Schmaltz but taller, stronger, and much more willing to use his shot. But I think he’s much worse with the puck, and much poorer in transition. Not as good as Schmaltz at creating turnovers, either. But they’re the same in a lot of ways. Often a bit lazy, often a bit dumb, neither can really figure out how to pay center, other than bots and pieces of it. Both are talented and should be better than they are. Bolduc has time and his production is good, but he never passes the eye test for me. Im honestly more impressed by James Malatesta when I watch Quebec play.

Meanwhile, I see Neighbors as a bit of a poor man’s Matthew Tkachuk. Underrated playmaker. His passing skills aren’t jaw dropping, but his vision and instincts are really good. He puts the puck in high danger areas. He’s really a benefit to skilled linemates because he works his ass off, takes the puck to tough areas, and has the smarts to put it in the best real-estate for goals. He’s fun to watch because of all the intangibles you hear about. I really don’t think his production is only high because he plays with talent. I do believe it’s a two-way street. He’s the kind of guy who earns his secondary assists. You know how sometimes a guy gets a REALLY good secondary assist? That’s Neighbors.

My only point was that I prefer Neighbors and by a whole heckuva lot. I’d probably rather have Neighbors than pick #15. Meanwhile, I’d probably rather have pick #45 than Bolduc.

None of that is to say I’m right about any of it. Just how I see it.
 

rt

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Huh? I’m saying that I think Neighbors is a WAY better prospect than Bolduc, is all.

Bolduc reminds me of Nick Schmaltz but taller, stronger, and much more willing to use his shot. But I think he’s much worse with the puck, and much poorer in transition. Not as good as Schmaltz at creating turnovers, either. But they’re the same in a lot of ways. Often a bit lazy, often a bit dumb, neither can really figure out how to pay center, other than bots and pieces of it. Both are talented and should be better than they are. Bolduc has time and his production is good, but he never passes the eye test for me. Im honestly more impressed by James Malatesta when I watch Quebec play.

Meanwhile, I see Neighbors as a bit of a poor man’s Matthew Tkachuk. Underrated playmaker. His passing skills aren’t jaw dropping, but his vision and instincts are really good. He puts the puck in high danger areas. He’s really a benefit to skilled linemates because he works his ass off, takes the puck to tough areas, and has the smarts to put it in the best real-estate for goals. He’s fun to watch because of all the intangibles you hear about. I really don’t think his production is only high because he plays with talent. I do believe it’s a two-way street. He’s the kind of guy who earns his secondary assists. You know how sometimes a guy gets a REALLY good secondary assist? That’s Neighbors.

My only point was that I prefer Neighbors and by a whole heckuva lot. I’d probably rather have Neighbors than pick #15. Meanwhile, I’d probably rather have pick #45 than Bolduc.

None of that is to say I’m right about any of it. Just how I see it.
@XX - I’m an idiot. I thought you said sub Bolduc in for Neighbors. Haha. You said Kostin. I’m a moron. Lol.

Yeah, I’d rather swing for the fences on Bolduc than bunt with Kostin. You are totally right. My bad, man.
 

rt

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As counterintuitive as it may seem, I think a room full of scouts is more likely to hold steady and use their picks due to confidence in how their list is ordered. Someone might fall out of a tier they aren't supposed to be in, sure, but the system is largely devoid of talent. At that point, quantity has a quality of its own.

I think BA has a list of players he wants in a Chychrun trade and isn't willing to deviate much from it. There's probably at least one guy from each calling team that is nonnegotiable.

Teams could close a "basket of value" trade really easily. I think it'd be done already. It's just that BA is asking for the good kush, so teams are hesitant. They're going to try everything to avoid paying that price.
I agree with this.
 

LGB

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Twitter.

EDIT: so it MUST be true…LOL
He had one glaring defensive error earlier in the season that gave up a back door goal. Could definitely see people on Twitter flaming him for that.
If I HAD to choose just one and could only choose between Perunovich, Kostin or Hofer to go with Neighbors and the 1st, my brain says pick Perunovich because he provides a touch of what we’re losing in Chychrun.

My gut says to pick Kostin because I think he has the best chance of being a useful NHL player, even if it’s as a 4th liner. I think Kostin’s “floor” is still a real NHL career. I don’t think Perunovich or Hofer have that same floor. Higher ceilings, sure. But lower floors.

Hofer is the biggest boom-or-bust of the three for me. Perunovich is in the middle. And Kostin has the least amount of headroom.

Which again makes my brain want to pick Perunovich. But I just don’t have good feeling about him. Same with Hofer. Kostin at least gives me a little tiny tingle of excitement about his acquisition.

Overall I think Kostin, Neighbors, and a ‘22 1st is a very underwhelming package for Chcyhrun. A package that’s severely lacking in upside potential and raw talent. Yet it’s still tempting because at least I actually like every piece in the deal.
FWIW I think Perunovich definitely has a higher floor than Kostin. Hard for me to see a scenario where he can't at least be on the third pairing. Obviously his defensive game will determine what he can be, but I'd have a lot more faith in him improving defensively Kostin suddenly becoming an impact guy. I don't really view being an average 4th liner as a floor though since that doesn't really add any value.
 

rt

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He had one glaring defensive error earlier in the season that gave up a back door goal. Could definitely see people on Twitter flaming him for that.

FWIW I think Perunovich definitely has a higher floor than Kostin. Hard for me to see a scenario where he can't at least be on the third pairing. Obviously his defensive game will determine what he can be, but I'd have a lot more faith in him improving defensively Kostin suddenly becoming an impact guy. I don't really view being an average 4th liner as a floor though since that doesn't really add any value.
I can see Kostin (on the low end) being Christian Fischer but less of wimp, and with the occasional flash of skill or little hot streak.

I can see Perunovich spending a decade ripping up European leagues. I’m not sold on Perunovich at all. At his age, I really don’t care about what he can do in the AHL. He’s getting sheltered minutes and his PP/EV split is WILD. Who the heck gets 13min/GP EV and 2min/GP PP? Especially with EIGHTY percent OZ%. Even for a rookie, that’s crazy. But it’s just that he’s not really doing anything with it that’s concerning. I mean, Scandella is basically the inverse on usage, right. And yet they’ve got the same Pts/60 5v5 despite it being 80/20 v 20/80.

I know he’s a rookie. But he’s an old rookie. And I’m not criticizing him for what he doesn’t do well. I’m criticizing him for his bread and butter. Where is it?

Its only a handful of games and I’m over reacting. Sample is small and I’m being unfair. Still, I want him to show me something.

You’ve seen more than I have and know better than I do. I’ll take your word for it.
 

LGB

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I can see Kostin (on the low end) being Christian Fischer but less of wimp, and with the occasional flash of skill or little hot streak.

I can see Perunovich spending a decade ripping up European leagues. I’m not sold on Perunovich at all. At his age, I really don’t care about what he can do in the AHL. He’s getting sheltered minutes and his PP/EV split is WILD. Who the heck gets 13min/GP EV and 2min/GP PP? Especially with EIGHTY percent OZ%. Even for a rookie, that’s crazy. But it’s just that he’s not really doing anything with it that’s concerning. I mean, Scandella is basically the inverse on usage, right. And yet they’ve got the same Pts/60 5v5 despite it being 80/20 v 20/80.

I know he’s a rookie. But he’s an old rookie. And I’m not criticizing him for what he doesn’t do well. I’m criticizing him for his bread and butter. Where is it?

Its only a handful of games and I’m over reacting. Sample is small and I’m being unfair. Still, I want him to show me something.

You’ve seen more than I have and know better than I do. I’ll take your word for it.
241 min is a pretty tiny sample size to evaluate a defenseman's 5v5 scoring rate. I thought he looked really really good as a PP quarterback which is why he got a lot of time even though he had low 5v5 ice time. I don't think scoring points will be an issue with him.

The usage is ridiculous. Berube seems to really specialize usage with defenseman and that does say something about what he thinks about his defensive game.
 

Jormungandr

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Watched Perunovich play quite a few times with the bulldogs. He’s very impressive. I would prefer him over Kostin personally.
 

Jakey53

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As counterintuitive as it may seem, I think a room full of scouts is more likely to hold steady and use their picks due to confidence in how their list is ordered. Someone might fall out of a tier they aren't supposed to be in, sure, but the system is largely devoid of talent. At that point, quantity has a quality of its own.

I think BA has a list of players he wants in a Chychrun trade and isn't willing to deviate much from it. There's probably at least one guy from each calling team that is nonnegotiable.

Teams could close a "basket of value" trade really easily. I think it'd be done already. It's just that BA is asking for the good kush, so teams are hesitant. They're going to try everything to avoid paying that price.
That's how it's looking. It just takes one playoff team to make a big trade to add depth for the SC run and then many others will follow. IF BA has his mind made up that Chych is gonzo he has all the leverage. He better get a big over payment, or just keep him.
 

PainForShane

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Unfortunately I don't think that is the reality of the situation. I think we all want a Byfield level prospect for him, because that is the level of player he is. But for some reason we are talking about moving him pretty heavily and I think at this point the conversation needs to be what you wouldn't quit watching the team over, rather than what is "fair".

Not really -- I mean other teams and the media are talking about a trade / making noise but we (the team) isn't really talking about this at all. Armstrong said he's doing his job and listening to all offers. Which is what he should be doing.



BA's a good GM, he won't make a trade just to make a trade (unlike one particular member of the board of Wendy's Canada). He definitely won't make a 'pile of stuff' trade because we have a pile of stuff coming our way in a few months anyway via the draft.

Seems like a lot of this forum is getting worked up for nothing. Up to you guys
 
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