Confirmed with Link: Christian Fischer signs 2-year deal

[MIGs Dog]

Ahhh yes, the exact purpose of a body check. I thank you on behalf of all that did not know.

I'd be willing to bet that most hits happen after a pass...meaning the puck is long gone.

 

[Jakey53]

It's saying Fischer produced minorly while getting unfavorable usage, but was responsible enough to negate the opposition decently. Considering his age and size, along with the recent signings, it's possible the plan for him is to start giving him more favorable offensive starts which the stats may be alluding to him being able to cash in more easily than other similar looking players. It's a low enough risk to go with Fischer over Richardson considering what expectations are this year. If Fischer stagnates whatever, but if he becomes anything else it's a win.

Two years ago Fischer was on the PP, consistently, and produced peanuts. For 1 mil. per it's a decent gamble that he gets better as he still has youth on his side, but as it sits now he is a 6'2" 214lb. p***y 4th liner.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I'd be willing to bet that most hits happen after a pass...meaning the puck is long gone.

Have a good time with that, it won’t change the fundamental purpose of a check -
Separate man from puck.

 

[Jamieh]

Have a good time with that, it won’t change the fundamental purpose of a check -
Separate man from puck.

I would suggest for most people there can be a difference between a check and a hit. Most players check in the NHL but there are only a few who hit.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Have a good time with that, it won’t change the fundamental purpose of a check -
Separate man from puck.

How about this: In many cases, the puck separation (via a pass) is in anticipation of being hit.

 

[zerekstar]

There is an outside chance playing around guys like Pitlick and others with some bite, and the fact that our GM values that type of play, may cause him to evolve his game a bit in a similar fashion.

 

[Jakey53]

There is an outside chance playing around guys like Pitlick and others with some bite, and the fact that our GM values that type of play, may cause him to evolve his game a bit in a similar fashion.

I have no idea what kind of player Pitlick is, but his stats mirror that of Fischer. Is he another giant p***y?

 

[moosemeister]

I have no idea what kind of player Pitlick is, but his stats mirror that of Fischer. Is he another giant p***y?

He’s not gonna beat everyone up, or lay massive open ice checks but he’s a buzzsaw of a worker. Maybe not as much as Martinook but could easily become a fan favorite like Martinook with how he works and forecheck. If his injury issues are indeed behind him, you’re gonna f***ing love this kid

 

[Jakey53]

He’s not gonna beat everyone up, or lay massive open ice checks but he’s a buzzsaw of a worker. Maybe not as much as Martinook but could easily become a fan favorite like Martinook with how he works and forecheck. If his injury issues are indeed behind him, you’re gonna f***ing love this kid

Speaking of Martinook. His last year here was not good, then he gets traded to Carolina and gets an A on his sweater. Is this another player that RT misused and abused?

 

[moosemeister]

Speaking of Martinook. His last year here was not good, then he gets traded to Carolina and gets an A on his sweater. Is this another player that RT misused and abused?

RT could get McDavid and turn him into a 50 point player haha

 

[MIGs Dog]

RT could get McDavid and turn him into a 50 point player haha

We could use another 50 pt player.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Speaking of Martinook. His last year here was not good, then he gets traded to Carolina and gets an A on his sweater. Is this another player that RT misused and abused?

Absolutely - and Chayka didn't like him because he isn't a fancy stats machine.

 

[Jakey53]

Absolutely - and Chayka didn't like him because he isn't a fancy stats machine.

That may be true, but I don't think Vinny or Oesterle are fancy stats machines either. With Martinook it's the intangibles you are getting that Chayka missed on.

 

[rt]

RT could get McDavid and turn him into a 50 point player haha

You’re joking but Taylor Hall was a 1.00 points per game player (81pts per season average) with New Jersey - which has never been viewed as a particularly talented team during that time. He gets to Arizona and is a 0.75ppg player (61pts per season average). This is the Rick Tocchet-effect.

Max Domi averaged 53pts per 82gp under Tippett. He averaged 63pts per 82gp in Montreal. For Tocchet? 45. So just like Taylor Hall, Max Domi experienced a TWENTY FIVE PERCENT drop in production under Tocchet.

In the three years prior to playing for Tocchet, Derek Stepan led ALL New York Rangers in points per 82 in that span with 61. He was their most productive forward. His three years under Tocchet? He’s averaged 43 points per 82 games played. That’s a THIRTY PERCENT drop in production.

In parts of two seasons under Tocchet, Dylan Strome averaged 30pts per 82gp. Since the trade, he's average 63pts/82gp with Chicago. No big deal. He just became TWICE as productive is all. Haha.

Well, how about Schmaltz? It's not all bad, afterall. In the season and a half before the trade, he averaged 51pts per 82gp. In the season and a half under Tocchet? 56. So that's basically just a wash. And we aren't alone in the "about even" category.

Duclair’s is much less dramatic. It’s roughly the same in all games away from him vs all games under him. It’s all in the 35-40/82 range. It’s kinda the same in the Panik situation. In the season and a half before the trade he put up half a point per game. In the season and a half under Tocchet that following he dropped only by a few percentage points. Roughly the same.

 

[Name Nameless]

You’re joking but Taylor Hall was a 1.00 points per game player (81pts per season average) with New Jersey - which has never been viewed as a particularly talented team during that time. He gets to Arizona and is a 0.75ppg player (61pts per season average). This is the Rick Tocchet-effect.

Max Domi averaged 53pts per 82gp under Tippett. He averaged 63pts per 82gp in Montreal. For Tocchet? 45. So just like Taylor Hall, Max Domi experienced a TWENTY FIVE PERCENT drop in production under Tocchet.

In the three years prior to playing for Tocchet, Derek Stepan led ALL New York Rangers in points per 82 in that span with 61. He was their most productive forward. His three years under Tocchet? He’s averaged 43 points per 82 games played. That’s a THIRTY PERCENT drop in production.

This is just like somebody should have suggested to fire Tocchet or something. Never thought of that.

 

[0point1]

I knew the "Tocchet Effect" was bad didn't realize it was that bad.

 

[Fuhrious]

I mean...I dont disagree with what @rt is saying...but throwing Strome in skews things a bit. He went from playing with AHL calibre linemates on the 3rd/4th line in Arizona to playing with DeBrincat, Kane and Kahun. One would hope he'd see an uptick in production with that substantial bump in quality.

 

[rt]

I mean...I dont disagree with what @rt is saying...but throwing Strome in skews things a bit. He went from playing with AHL calibre linemates on the 3rd/4th line in Arizona to playing with DeBrincat, Kane and Kahun. One would hope he'd see an uptick in production with that substantial bump in quality.

I didn't throw in Kessel or Galchenyuk yet. And if you want to call some of the negatives neutrals, that's fine. The key point is there are ZERO positives. Nobody has outpaced expectation. Keller and Dvorak have largely stalled. Crouse hasn't lived up to expectations. Fischer has regressed. And Garland? Well Garland had to lead the entire team in goal scoring BEFORE the coaches started giving him real opportunities. He had to lead the team from the 4th line first. His success has been despite them, rather that because of them.

You can throw out some of my negatives for sample, size, quality of linemates, or whatever you want. Chuck them in the neutral category. But there's nobody in the positive category. No player has gotten much better under Tocchet or exceeded expectations under him.

 

[Fuhrious]

I didn't throw in Kessel or Galchenyuk yet. And if you want to call some of the negatives neutrals, that's fine. The key point is there are ZERO positives. Nobody has outpaced expectation. Keller and Dvorak have largely stalled. Crouse hasn't lived up to expectations. Fischer has regressed. And Garland? Well Garland had to lead the entire team in goal scoring BEFORE the coaches started giving him real opportunities. He had to lead the team from the 4th line first. His success has been despite them, rather that because of them.

You can throw out some of my negatives for sample, size, quality of linemates, or whatever you want. Chuck them in the neutral category. But there's nobody in the positive category. No player has gotten much better under Tocchet or exceeded expectations under him.

I agree with you 1000%. I'm just saying, as someone who firmly believes Strome's development was mishandled from beginning to end, that he wouldnt be one of my top 5 examples for a statistical analysis as to why RT is a lousy NHL HC.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

I mean...I dont disagree with what @rt is saying...but throwing Strome in skews things a bit. He went from playing with AHL calibre linemates on the 3rd/4th line in Arizona to playing with DeBrincat, Kane and Kahun. One would hope he'd see an uptick in production with that substantial bump in quality.

That's true but the quality of linemates is directly under Tocchet's control. So, the skewed results are actually due to how Tocchet coached Strome and how he was used by a different coach... making them not skewed, actually. Tocchet COULD have used better linemates for Strome, but chose not to. Therefore, the results are fair to compare.

 

[XX]

I agree with you 1000%. I'm just saying, as someone who firmly believes Strome's development was mishandled from beginning to end, that he wouldnt be one of my top 5 examples for a statistical analysis as to why RT is a lousy NHL HC.

He didn't give Strome a consistent run of games and seems to have encouraged the organization to move on, both big mistakes. I think it's completely fair to include him. A player should not leave and instantly go on to be a near PPG 2C with someone else.

They specifically refused to give Strome a housing letter after he was Tucson's 1C and did everything asked of him. The same horseshit is playing out with Hayton. BA talked a big game about 'getting the coach to give the young players room to breathe'. Guess we'll see.

If you want to OD on irony, here's RT on the importance of comfort/faith:

Making the opening night roster is certainly an accomplishment, though it can be fleeting. The time-honored tradition of a coach or general manager giving a player permission to check out of the hotel and find a place to live means he is sticking around for a long time, if not the entire season.

"When you're at the hotel for a couple months, you're always wondering, 'When are they going to tell me?'" former player and current Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet said not long after giving goaltender Scott Wedgewood the green light to get a place in Arizona. "You're comfortable. You're not just in a hotel. It really helps you."

Get a place: NHL tradition holds value for young players

 

[rt]

I agree with you 1000%. I'm just saying, as someone who firmly believes Strome's development was mishandled from beginning to end, that he wouldnt be one of my top 5 examples for a statistical analysis as to why RT is a lousy NHL HC.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm making a list, not a ranking. I'm just lumping guys into categories:

Negatives:
Domi - better before and after Tocchet
Strome - better after Tocchet
Hall - better before Tocchet
Stepan - better before Tocchet
Kessel - free fall
Galchenyuk - better before Tocchet
Fischer - regressed under Tocchet

Neutrals:
Duclair - about the same before/after
Panik - about the same before/after
Keller - Roller coaster, averaging about to about the same as rookie season. Plateaued production.
Schmaltz - Roller coaster, averaging about the same as before/after.
Dvorak - hasn't lived up to expectations, but made small strides, largely plateaued production.
Crouse - hasn't lived up to expectations under Tocchet, but made small strides
Hayton - 27 healthy scratches and 11 minutes of ice time per game.

Positives:
Garland - surprise break-through player. Context:

On 11/18 he scored his 10th goal. First Coyote to double digits. The next highest goal total on the team was 6 goals. He scored 9 of those at even-strength. He was 10th among all Coyotes forwards at TOI/GP. He was playing 4th line minutes with no PP time. Over the next 30 days he played 15 games. He was 11th among all Coyotes forwards in TOI/GP, despite continuing to lead the team in total goals through that date. Over the next month, he played another 14 games. During this stretch, he was finally elevated to 3rd line ice-time among forwards, getting the 8th most time on ice per game. He was still leading the team in goals at this point. Finally, in that next 30 days, he was 4th in ice-time per game among forwards, reaching 2nd line status. Still leading the team in goal scoring.

He had to lead the team in goals from the 4th line literally for months before he started getting any decent opportunities from this coaching staff. You can call this a Tocchet/MacLean success if you wish. I absolutely do not.

 

[Fuhrious]

I mean...I agree with all of you. I just cringe when I think of comparing Strome's output in Arizona to what he was able to do playing with a generational guy like Kane. Call it a personal thing, I guess.

 

[rt]

I mean...I agree with all of you. I just cringe when I think of comparing Strome's output in Arizona to what he was able to do playing with a generational guy like Kane. Call it a personal thing, I guess.

It's a good thing he's only one of the fifteen names on my list.

 

[Fuhrious]

That's not what I'm doing. I'm making a list, not a ranking. I'm just lumping guys into categories:

Negatives:
Domi - better before and after Tocchet
Strome - better after Tocchet
Hall - better before Tocchet
Stepan - better before Tocchet
Kessel - free fall
Galchenyuk - better before Tocchet
Fischer - regressed under Tocchet

Neutrals:
Duclair - about the same before/after
Panik - about the same before/after
Keller - Roller coaster, averaging about to about the same as rookie season. Plateaued production.
Schmaltz - Roller coaster, averaging about the same as before/after.
Dvorak - hasn't lived up to expectations, but made small strides, largely plateaued production.
Crouse - hasn't lived up to expectations under Tocchet, but made small strides
Hayton - 27 healthy scratches and 11 minutes of ice time per game.

Positives:
Garland - surprise break-through player. Context:

On 11/18 he scored his 10th goal. First Coyote to double digits. The next highest goal total on the team was 6 goals. He scored 9 of those at even-strength. He was 10th among all Coyotes forwards at TOI/GP. He was playing 4th line minutes with no PP time. Over the next 30 days he played 15 games. He was 11th among all Coyotes forwards in TOI/GP, despite continuing to lead the team in total goals through that date. Over the next month, he played another 14 games. During this stretch, he was finally elevated to 3rd line ice-time among forwards, getting the 8th most time on ice per game. He was still leading the team in goals at this point. Finally, in that next 30 days, he was 4th in ice-time per game among forwards, reaching 2nd line status. Still leading the team in goal scoring.

He had to lead the team in goals from the 4th line literally for months before he started getting any decent opportunities from this coaching staff. You can call this a Tocchet/MacLean success if you wish. I absolutely do not.

Ugh...I was pissing and moaning about Garland's utilization all last season. The guy was leaving it all out there and actually putting up numbers, and was being rewarded in subsequent games with 6-7 minutes TOI. I know I questioned it in at least a couple threads over the course of the year.