Player Discussion Christian Dvorak

[Whitesnake]

Type of guy who goes with the flow. Like....everybody else on the team. What a terrible trade. This whole Danault-Dvorak-Kotkaniemi was a disaster.

 

[LaP]

Adjusting period or not...
Team sucking or not...

He is really invisible, in the worst ways, out there.

It's more than just being invisible. I was watching him yesterday and he has trouble handling the puck while skating. He looked like a legit bottom 6 guy. He got a big body so if he goes in front of the net he'll grab some goals here and there and can certainly score between 15-20 but outside of that his level of skills is very limited.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Type of guy who goes with the flow. Like....everybody else on the team. What a terrible trade. This whole Danault-Dvorak-Kotkaniemi was a disaster.

Do you remember when I was saying we should retain Danault and over pay if we have too. Do you also remember when I said those who agree with Bergevin that we should let Danault go should be nervous that they agree with Bergevin? . People ignore when I don't agree with Bergevin but are obsessed and call me a Bergevin lover when I do agree or fight negative exaggeration to prove weak points.

I went back and forth on KK. But a big part of me thought that with Danault, Weber, Perry gone and with Price hurt, we should stay put and not sign Savard/Hoffman and also keep both 1st's after we didn't match on KK. I'm not that worried about Dvorak cause he's affected by this flawed roster with no identity but I felt our faith was sealed with how our offseason went. I personally wanted the rebuild but a little later in the process while we try to win with Price and Weber but with Weber going on LTIR, it changed things.

Dvorak vs an extra 1st. I'm OK with either in the end but would not have been my choice based on the circumstances we were facing. I also do admit that I got emotionally tied to what this "new" roster with good wingers could do. But did that ever fail! Should of stayed consistent and trusted my gut

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's more than just being invisible. I was watching him yesterday and he has trouble handling the puck while skating. He looked like a legit bottom 6 guy. He got a big body so if he goes in front of the net he'll grab some goals here and there and can certainly score between 15-20 but outside of that his level of skills is very limited.

The issue is he is not a line driver as a center which causes ripple effects cause this team lacks puck possession guys all over the place and we are not that gritty enough to grind out tight games.

I feel that the Habs fan base are going to go on a blame game and nit pick players. Dvorak is a solid center but not an ideal #2C. You need two better guys ahead of him and we only have one in Suzuki and he has puck possession issues as well. I love Suzuki and what he brings to our team but he's not a line driver either

 

[MoneyManny]

Do you remember when I was saying we should retain Danault and over pay if we have too. Do you also remember when I said those who agree with Bergevin that we should let Danault go should be nervous that they agree with Bergevin? . People ignore when I don't agree with Bergevin but are obsessed and call me a Bergevin lover when I do agree or fight negative exaggeration to prove weak points.

I went back and forth on KK. But a big part of me thought that with Danault, Weber, Perry gone and with Price hurt, we should stay put and not sign Savard/Hoffman and also keep both 1st's after we didn't match on KK. I'm not that worried about Dvorak cause he's affected by this flawed roster with no identity but I felt our faith was sealed with how our offseason went. I personally wanted the rebuild but a little later in the process while we try to win with Price and Weber but with Weber going on LTIR, it changed things.

Dvorak vs an extra 1st. I'm OK with either in the end but would not have been my choice based on the circumstances we were facing. I also do admit that I got emotionally tied to what this "new" roster with good wingers could do. But did that ever fail! Should of stayed consistent and trusted my gut

Danault is gone and there's absolutely nothing we have other than his comments to the media that he even wanted to play for us again no matter what. You have to remember that the media feeds you narratives and theyre not always right.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Danault is gone and there's absolutely nothing we have other than his comments to the media that he even wanted to play for us again no matter what. You have to remember that the media feeds you narratives and theyre not always right.

I don't fall for the media narratives. Not the type. What I see is Danault was underappreciated by both fans and our GM. Trying to sign him for under $5M AAV is insulting. He busted his ass off each and every shift and worked as hard or harder than Gallagher. We asked him to play more of a defensive role after Suzuki passed him and he did. He had 60-80% of his starts in the D zone and fans jumped on his back about lack of goals. With the Kings, he is getting more of a 55/45 split favoring the D zone and look at that... 9 pts in 19 games with 3 goals.

We messed that up. Suzuki/Danault was a good 1/2 combo and adding one more good center with them would have been a great situation. I don't care about the 1C, 2C, 3C narratives. I care about team make-up and icing a team that can win games. No doubt in my mind that Danault helps you win games.

 

[MoneyManny]

I don't fall for the media narratives. Not the type. What I see is Danault was underappreciated by both fans and our GM. Trying to sign him for under $5M AAV is insulting. He busted his ass off each and every shift and worked as hard or harder than Gallagher. We asked him to play more of a defensive role after Suzuki passed him and he did. He had 60-80% of his starts in the D zone and fans jumped on his back about lack of goals. With the Kings, he is getting more of a 55/45 split favoring the D zone and look at that... 9 pts in 19 games with 3 goals.

We messed that up. Suzuki/Danault was a good 1/2 combo and adding one more good center with them would have been a great situation. I don't care about the 1C, 2C, 3C narratives. I care about team make-up and icing a team that can win games. No doubt in my mind that Danault helps you win games.

I agree with you that we'd be way more dangerous with Danault right now. With all his flaws, he was still a gamer. But we still have no idea if he even wanted to be back with this team and probably never will. Maybe he still chooses LA even if we matched the contract he has right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree with you that we'd be way more dangerous with Danault right now. With all his flaws, he was still a gamer. But we still have no idea if he even wanted to be back with this team and probably never will. Maybe he still chooses LA even if we matched the contract he has right now.

If he didn't want to come back, what do you think the reasons were? It can't be that we were only calling him a 3C and should not be paid more than $4.5M right? No way it's that?

Popularity contest. Petry and Gallagher got their max deals and we ignored Danault who provided equal value in us winning games. No wonder he left. You would to if you were him!

 

[26Mats]

I agree with you that we'd be way more dangerous with Danault right now. With all his flaws, he was still a gamer. But we still have no idea if he even wanted to be back with this team and probably never will. Maybe he still chooses LA even if we matched the contract he has right now.

Phil didn't like being pushed back to 3c in the bubble, in favor of Suzuki and KK.

It's unfortunate he reacted that way. Not a good look on him, imo. It would have taken proper management of his ego to right the situation. Even though he was in the wrong for reacting that way (though probably inbthe right that he was better than KK), I would have tried to heal the wounds.

Another wound was created in his last contract. MB used his bargaining power to get Phil to sign a low ball deal. The minute after he signed it, Phil said he took less on this deal and wouldn't take less on his next one. This summer, MB drew the line at 5M and Phil was true to his word. That was less money than his market value and he went with his market value. I definitely think if Marc had given him what he deserved on his last deal that may have made him more amenable to signing for 5M onnthis deal, a very good offer for what he brings.

 

[cphabs]

Kind of a related question… was Pierre Turgeon our last true 1C?

 

[Wats]

Type of guy who goes with the flow. Like....everybody else on the team. What a terrible trade. This whole Danault-Dvorak-Kotkaniemi was a disaster.

I know they won't do it but I feel like Dvorak would be better suited as LW to Suzuki. He seems like a good complimentary bumper pass/position type player to a high skill guy.

They can move Drouin to C (attempt to boost trade value by showing he can play there).

 

[shamrun]

Outside of bergevin....is there a gm that would be willing to send us a 1st round pick for him?

 

[Doc McKenna]

Phil didn't like being pushed back to 3c in the bubble, in favor of Suzuki and KK.

It's unfortunate he reacted that way. Not a good look on him, imo. It would have taken proper management of his ego to right the situation. Even though he was in the wrong for reacting that way (though probably inbthe right that he was better than KK), I would have tried to heal the wounds.

Another wound was created in his last contract. MB used his bargaining power to get Phil to sign a low ball deal. The minute after he signed it, Phil said he took less on this deal and wouldn't take less on his next one. This summer, MB drew the line at 5M and Phil was true to his word. That was less money than his market value and he went with his market value. I definitely think if Marc had given him what he deserved on his last deal that may have made him more amenable to signing for 5M onnthis deal, a very good offer for what he brings.

Hes a third line center. Who pays their 3rd line center 5.5 million. 5 was more than fair and if we went by his regular season, before "He shut down marner and mathews" crap was started and wasn't even true, he would have been lucky to make 5 million. At the end of last season he was pacing for 37 points on the season. This year 39 points WITH PP time. SO much for his comments about more O zone opportunities, and him having another gear. He just doesn't have the gear for it. Guy is given golden opportunties that he SAYS he never had with the habs and is producing 2 extra points a year...pffft.

He is a minus player this year as well. So I guess the entire narrative about his 5 on 5 prowess can be thrown out the window too. Also the narrative of him making his line so much better. Good 3rd line center, bad 2nd line C on a poor team. WOW lets overpay to 6 million for this clown, sign me up!! Isn't gallys, anderson, price, weber, armia....etc terrible contracts warning enough?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Type of guy who goes with the flow. Like....everybody else on the team. What a terrible trade. This whole Danault-Dvorak-Kotkaniemi was a disaster.

Let's say when Carolina gave us a free first pick for a 3rd line center at best we should have kept that 1st and 2nd pick and have a better in Montreal at the end of the season.

 

[nhlfan9191]

If he didn't want to come back, what do you think the reasons were? It can't be that we were only calling him a 3C and should not be paid more than $4.5M right? No way it's that?

Popularity contest. Petry and Gallagher got their max deals and we ignored Danault who provided equal value in us winning games. No wonder he left. You would to if you were him!

Gallagher should’ve never got that deal. His age, size and millage had disaster written all over it. Petry I understand. He was extremely valuable. Danault isn’t changing much with this team if he’s here in the short term which makes losing him not a big deal. With the Price/Weber era wrapped up, we didn’t need another bloated long term contract. The mistake made was throwing away high draft picks for mediocre players like Dvorak. That’s what happens when you have management with no vision. The only vision they have is building average teams that can hopefully compete for the playoffs and get lucky if they make them. They should’ve been prepping for Weber and Price aging/declining years ago.

 

[dcyhabs]

The issue is he is not a line driver as a center which causes ripple effects cause this team lacks puck possession guys all over the place and we are not that gritty enough to grind out tight games.

I feel that the Habs fan base are going to go on a blame game and nit pick players. Dvorak is a solid center but not an ideal #2C. You need two better guys ahead of him and we only have one in Suzuki and he has puck possession issues as well. I love Suzuki and what he brings to our team but he's not a line driver either

I agree. Suzuki is one of the few key players, most of the guys they have are good complimentary players if they have someone driving the line, or good players individually if the other two can take care of themselves. Other than Suzuki who do they have?

The habs lost a guy who didn't put up a lot of points, but who drove the play, opened space for hist linemates, and ate tough minutes without getting scored on. They replaced him with Dvorak, who is OK if someone else is driving the play but who can't do it himself. There are reasons why Dvorak was shopped for so long at his age, and why no one else was willing to take him.

Losing Weber and Danault was tough. The habs need Edmundson and Price back. They don't particularly need Dvorak, short term or long term.

 

[JianYang]

Kind of a related question… was Pierre Turgeon our last true 1C?

No, the habs have had other number 1 centers. Damphousse, koivu, and pleky for a brief period were all #1 centers.

Turgeon was probably the most highly ranked out of that bunch though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gallagher should’ve never got that deal. His age, size and millage had disaster written all over it. Petry I understand. He was extremely valuable. Danault isn’t changing much with this team if he’s here in the short term which makes losing him not a big deal. With the Price/Weber era wrapped up, we didn’t need another bloated long term contract. The mistake made was throwing away high draft picks for mediocre players like Dvorak. That’s what happens when you have management with no vision. The only vision they have is building average teams that can hopefully compete for the playoffs and get lucky if they make them. They should’ve been prepping for Weber and Price aging/declining years ago.

* We agree on Gallagher.
* I would have overpaid to retain Danault before giving a contract to Gallagher. Rebuild or not, I'm retaining Danault
* We agree on Petry
* Price/Weber... I've said it many times. I was open to re rebuild but I was also willing to delay it to try to win with them now (which we tried last year). But once Weber goes on LTIR and Price needs another knee surgery, and you loose Danault, Perry. I would have chosen a different direction
* Not matching on KK was a good decision. I originally said keep both our 1st's but then fell into the trap of what we can do with our "new" roster with good wingers and how Dvorak would fit.

I think our management is guilty of thinking we can still be a playoff team after that cup run last year. But the circumstances in the offseason created a different situation and we should have considered more of a youth movement. We agree on that part.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

On pace for 31 points and -999... This trade is horrible.

Can't defend, can't attack, most vanilla player ever...

 

[Habs Halifax]

On pace for 31 points and -999... This trade is horrible.

Can't defend, can't attack, most vanilla player ever...

We knew he was not a perfect center though. What we didn't know is how the entire team would lack identity and how even guys like Petry and Gallagher would struggle this badly. So I would steer shy of evaluating Dvorak in this team mess.

Dvorak has more to offer if we have the right situation for him and we don't. That's the issue.

 

[Seb]

I didn't follow the Coyotes and never paid attention to Dvorak, but was he always like this?

How can you justify giving a 1st and 2nd round pick for him?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I didn't follow the Coyotes and never paid attention to Dvorak, but was he always like this?

How can you justify giving a 1st and 2nd round pick for him?

Coyotes played a defense first system and Dvorak fit that system well. Habs have an identity crisis and Dvorak is not the type to drive a line. Ripple effects and Habs fans going to throw players under the bus.

Was he worth a 1st and 2nd? I would not try to evaluate it with certainty this early. It could be very well a similar issue to what we are getting from Petry and Gallagher at the moment... they look horrible too!

The problem is Dvorak may not be a center we have after our rebuild so that 1st does hurt. We made the trade thinking we were a bubble team which we are not. That's why it stings

 

[x15Kotkaniemi15x]

Spoke about Dvorak and Poehling and how the Habs are lacking a true number two center here. Cheers everyone, GHG!

 

[Miller Time]

Good GMs/teams don't give up that kind of return (1st/2nd) for a player as limited as Dvorak, unless it's a trade deadlinemove for playoff run needs...

you spend that either for potential, or for impact. Dvorak provides neither.

All these excuses about the state of the team are silly. If he's only going to produce when the team is rolling, he's a spare part, not a key cog... waiver wire is full of players who can ride a hot team/great situation to some decent productivity. He was brought in to be a quality 2C, he has not played anywhere close to that level, despite getting more ice time & pp time, playing with 11M$ worth of NHL wingers.

If anything, the context he's in should be prime opportunity to take a step forward, instead, he's regressed. That's a bad sign no matter how much spin or how many excuses one tries to come up with...

 

[dcyhabs]

Bergevin went out and got players with offensive stats. Those players were available because they are not play drivers, guys who can put up points if other players do the hard work, not guys who make the team better.

Gazette article suggested playing Dvorak only on exploitation and PK. Odd, but yet another guy who needs to be sheltered.