Player Discussion Christian Dvorak

[aresknights]

Danault.

Danualt what?

Go back and read the post I responded to which was in turn a response to my original post for context.

 

[Frankenheimer]

KK now is not in the discussion. If we talk about KK, that's his potential. What he will become when he wil be 24 y. Dvorak have to be compared with Danault now. Or you think losing KK is hurts us more than losing Danault. KK plays 3rd winger limited time.

Why should he be compared to Danault? We lost him straight up. Dvo was swapped for KK straight up. Right now Dvorak is performing better than KK on a worse team. Danault’s replacement is Evans or Poehling. That’s the way it would have been seen had KK not been swapped for Dvo.

There is no point to do anything with him. The season is over. If he puts up comparable points to last year and improves defensively he will be doing better than KK, the player he replaced.

 

[dcyhabs]

I hope Dvorak can get better but I don't see him as ever being a key player. KK at least had a possibility of being important to the team in future. I think Danault was key and instead of signing Savard, trading for Dvorak, and signing some other pretty big contracts MB should have kept him.

I hope I'm wrong and that Dvorak figures out the system and starts looking good. Savard has looked better lately, though he couldn't really have gotten worse. I don't see either player being likely to be worth their contracts but I hope they surprise me.

I'm pretty sure Danault would have been worth 6.5 mil.

The secondary players are great, but we're seeing the result of overpaying for depth and losing key players. Some couldn't be helped, Price, Weber, and Edmundson just weren't available, so the season would probably have been a disaster in any case. If the key players are gone there is no point trading picks to try to fill holes. If key players leave for money you are paying the wrong players. Just have to hope that Bergevin has learned something and won't start rushing and busting the young guys to try to compete next year. Let Guhle play in lower leagues and take the pick, unless he makes it really clear he's ready. Not, "hey KK can survive in the NHL if he's sheltered" ready, "he has nothing left to learn at lower levels and he doesn't need to be protected from elite players in the NHL" ready.

I suppose Dvorak isn't helped by the winger selection, either. They have some good wingers but too many that need to be sheltered at even strength.

 

[LaP]

Why should he be compared to Danault? We lost him straight up. Dvo was swapped for KK straight up. Right now Dvorak is performing better than KK on a worse team. Danault’s replacement is Evans or Poehling. That’s the way it would have been seen had KK not been swapped for Dvo.

There is no point to do anything with him. The season is over. If he puts up comparable points to last year and improves defensively he will be doing better than KK, the player he replaced.

Playing "better" on a worse team doesn't mean much. We have seen many many players over the years having great seasons in a non playoffs team just to then become depth in a winning team. Dvorak would be 4th center on Carolina or at best a 3rd line winger and it would greatly affect his production. He's playing 1st line minutes atm and he's producing like a 3rd line center that's not good at all. He's playing almost 19 minutes a game and his pace is 33 points while being weak defensively. That's honestly downright awful and in any winning team he would have been downgraded a long time ago and would play significantly less. The best asset in this movement of players remains the 1st round pick by a fair margin for now ans that's the asset i'd rather have right now.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Why should he be compared to Danault? We lost him straight up. Dvo was swapped for KK straight up. Right now Dvorak is performing better than KK on a worse team. Danault’s replacement is Evans or Poehling. That’s the way it would have been seen had KK not been swapped for Dvo.

There is no point to do anything with him. The season is over. If he puts up comparable points to last year and improves defensively he will be doing better than KK, the player he replaced.

Ok, I see the point. Technicly, Dvorak replace KK because this is what happened in that OS to KK saga.
Dvorak is 25, KK is 21. So Dvorak is closer to his full potential, he was the #1 center of the worst nhl team in a place where cactus grows on sand. So he is replacement of KK but he nhl ready for a regular #2 C duty role. I want to add that I was prefering Hertl for the #2 C job. In reality, acquiring a center is way more difficult to get than with a playstation. We are all living room gms here, lol, we can all get a center from another team with good stats by snapping the fingers, hahaha, well ...

If Dvo is KK replacement, Evans and Paquette-Perreault are Danault replacement. Where Bergerin swapped the money he wasn't able to pay Danault. He did paid for Armia, Evans, Paquette, Perreault. He overpaid for Suzuki too. But I guess he was affraid of Dundon. Let's say he had no choice for Zuk because of the KK saga.

But the thing is, it's so easy for opposite teams to score vs the Habs. I could understand we lose Weber and Price. And Edmun. And losing Byron makes the Habs a slower team. Nobody in the Habs players can do the shut-down plays, winning FO 56%, cutting passes and great defensive overall Danault was doing. Nobody does that and Gallagher is an orphan of his center. Right?

On a management money wise, Dvorak is Danault replacement. Because Danault was paid 3,1 and asking for 5,5. Dvorak is paid 4,5. This is not in the numbers KK was worth. Bergevin was probably expecting to pay KK between 1,8 to 2,8. KK have been healthy scratch during PO. He was a non factor. Danault had more icetime for a center during that PO run.

In the money chart, we replace 5,5 of Danault by 4,5 of Dvorak + a raise for Evans and Armia. And little extra for Paquette and Perreault. Bergy must have some ti gars de cheu nous to satisfy the local fanfans you know, wink. But he totally forgot how to build a team. And he listened to most of you guys, he let Danault walk.

 

[dcyhabs]

I'm not sure Dvorak is a good number 2 C on a competitive team. I don't know that you want him in a defensive role, either. He may just not be a fit.

 

[Schwang]

Dvorak is strong on faceoffs and I believe he can produce (maybe nor 2nd line numbers though). I think he lacks some drive.
Bottom line is, you think people are complaining now, just wait if they drop out of the bottom 10 and they lose that pick to Arizona. That could be a very high pick they give up for him. Yikes!

 

[26Mats]

Dvorak is strong on faceoffs and I believe he can produce (maybe nor 2nd line numbers though). I think he lacks some drive.
Bottom line is, you think people are complaining now, just wait if they drop out of the bottom 10 and they lose that pick to Arizona. That could be a very high pick they give up for him. Yikes!

If MB has even an iota of sense, which he may or may not, it's not clear to me, he'll do everything he can to make sure we don't fall out of the top 10.

That's the 2nd most important thing that could come out of this season.

The first is him getting fired.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Dvorak is strong on faceoffs and I believe he can produce (maybe nor 2nd line numbers though). I think he lacks some drive.
Bottom line is, you think people are complaining now, just wait if they drop out of the bottom 10 and they lose that pick to Arizona. That could be a very high pick they give up for him. Yikes!

We should talk more about who we should pick or not. There is not only Wright. The russian locomotive seems interesting and Nemec at D too. There are picks I would avoid in the top 10. There are good picks later in first round and second round. Someone should start a thread about that.

 

[Schwang]

If MB has even an iota of sense, which he may or may not, it's not clear to me, he'll do everything he can to make sure we don't fall out of the top 10.

That's the 2nd most important thing that could come out of this season.

The first is him getting fired.

I don't think he'll get fired. I think the smarter thing to do is bring in a successor asap to learn the ropes. It's pretty clear MB won't be back. I get the impression he doesn't want to be back.

 

[Schwang]

We should talk more about who we should pick or not. There is not only Wright. The russian locomotive seems interesting and Nemec at D too. There are picks I would avoid in the top 10. There are good picks later in first round and second round. Someone should start a thread about that.

Absolutely. But they can't slip out of that bottom 10. Carolina could pick I the high 20's. Even the 30's.

 

[Guy Larose]

If MB has even an iota of sense, which he may or may not, it's not clear to me, he'll do everything he can to make sure we don't fall out of the top 10.

That's the 2nd most important thing that could come out of this season.

The first is him getting fired.

All teams want to win, period. They'll never do it on purpose to lose. They might sell everything off in the hopes of having a better pick, but this won't happen in MTL. In an interview the other day he was asked specifically about tanking and he said it's not an option at all.

 

[Tyson]

Dvorak needs Drouin to carry the puck for him which is ok.
Dvorak and every other vet had started poorly.
We have seen Savard getting much better and I think Dvorak is slowly coming around as well.

 

[1909]

I'm not sure Dvorak is a good number 2 C on a competitive team. I don't know that you want him in a defensive role, either. He may just not be a fit.

Dvorak is perfect #2 on bad teams like Arizona or Montréal.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

I think he's been getting better with time , I can see some chemistry developing. I don't think he's the type that will "wow you" with his skill but I can see him carving out a solid role. I need more time to judge the trade appropriately especially if it ends up being a late 1st from Carolina.

Je started well on the line with Joe and Josh. When Joe was out it showed. The chemistry between them is evident. I think the best is yet to come as well. It’s tough to judge the new guy , who’s rumoured to be playing injured, on one of the worst teams in the league. We didn’t get to where we are because of Dvorak. The season has been a tire fire so far. GHG

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

I had hopes for him.

Just wish he looked like he cared about being in MTL but maybe thats just not his style

He has always been a « all business » type of guy. Look at video throughout the years. He never smiles

 

[aresknights]

Playing "better" on a worse team doesn't mean much. We have seen many many players over the years having great seasons in a non playoffs team just to then become depth in a winning team. Dvorak would be 4th center on Carolina or at best a 3rd line winger and it would greatly affect his production. He's playing 1st line minutes atm and he's producing like a 3rd line center that's not good at all. He's playing almost 19 minutes a game and his pace is 33 points while being weak defensively. That's honestly downright awful and in any winning team he would have been downgraded a long time ago and would play significantly less. The best asset in this movement of players remains the 1st round pick by a fair margin for now ans that's the asset i'd rather have right now.

The whole team is awful so far.
Is he getting #1 C minutes over NS? ( u did say 1st line minutes)
If he was the 4th C on Car. Does that mean he slots ahead of KK (ok that was just for fun)
DVO will be fine for the price paid in comparison to other deals in the NHL just MO but I won't judge after 1/4 of a shot start to a season
Cost controlled, will play better ( injury/ new team,/ team played like shi.... ect....)

 

[LaP]

The whole team is awful so far.
Is he getting #1 C minutes over NS?
If he was the 4th C on Car. Does that mean he slots ahead of KK (ok that was just for fun)
DVO will be fine for the price paid in comparison to other deals in the NHL just MO but I won't judge after 1/4 of a shot start to a season
Cost controlled, will play better ( injury/ new team,/ team played like shi.... ect....)

Please we will not go at it again. We went thru this with DD already. 18:52 minutes is bordering dangerously with is 1st line minutes. He is playing 25 sec less than Suzuki total per game and 35 sec less on the PP. This is deluxe 2nd line minutes at worst and some people would call this 1B TOI. 3rd line center doing 33 points on a winning team don't play 18:52 minutes. Also it's not common for a 3rd line center to return a 1st round pick in the summer (where unlike the TDL you don't know the position of the pick). Eller sure did not and everyone called this trade good. Eller trade can't be good if Dvorak trade is good. Unless Dvorak is on a bad sequence this is not a good trade at all.

 

[aresknights]

Please we will not go at it again. We went thru this with DD already. 18:52 minutes is bordering dangerously with is 1st line minutes. He is playing 25 sec less than Suzuki total per game and 35 sec less on the PP. This is deluxe 2nd line minutes at worst and some people would call this 1B TOI. 3rd line center doing 33 points on a winning team don't play 18:52 minutes. Also it's not common for a 3rd line center to return a 1st round pick in the summer (where unlike the TDL you don't know the position of the pick). Eller sure did not and everyone called this trade good. Eller trade can't be good if Dvorak trade is good. Unless Dvorak is on a bad sequence this is not a good trade at all.

20 games in I won't judge a trade esp with a shi... show team so far and his injury ( n time off.from practice)
He will be fine and worth a 1st rd pick when comparing so many other deals.
Yes a rental for 1/2 yr. goes for a later 1st rd pick but he is locked in at a good price for years as a 2/3 centre.. That adds value.
If he players the next 400 games at this pace I'll agree with ya. But 20 games under these circumstances, na

 

[Habs Halifax]

Absolutely. But they can't slip out of that bottom 10. Carolina could pick I the high 20's. Even the 30's.

We would have to play .600 hockey for the rest of the year to pick outside of the top 10. If I was guessing, our pick before lottery draw is 5-10 range. Habs made a slight comeback but it's limited.

Finishing in the 10-15 range would be a big disappointment

 

[Stubu]

Damn, this used to be the Jesperi Kotkaniemi meme. What happened to it?

(I know, I know. Just saying one can't hijack it like that.)

 

[Miller Time]

Adjusting period or not...
Team sucking or not...

He is really invisible, in the worst ways, out there.

 

[Et le But]

He was sold as a Plekanec type, a good defensive C who can score goals.

Turns out his defense is terrible and it doesn't make up for his average offensive skill set.

 

[Miller Time]

He was sold as a Plekanec type, a good defensive C who can score goals.

Turns out his defense is terrible and it doesn't make up for his average offensive skill set.

time to get him away from Anderson imo... just not enough hockey sense from the big guy and Dvorak doesn't have the elite playmaking ability to prop him up.

Toffoli - Dvorak - Caufield

i'd give that line a go and pump them full of easy minutes/heavy offensive zone starts.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

time to get him away from Anderson imo... just not enough hockey sense from the big guy and Dvorak doesn't have the elite playmaking ability to prop him up.

Toffoli - Dvorak - Caufield

i'd give that line a go and pump them full of easy minutes/heavy offensive zone starts.

I'd like to see Drouin with Dvorak and Caufield, mainly because Drouin is always looking to pass and I want to see Caufield shooting as much as possible.