Confirmed with Link: Chris Phillips: 2 years, $5M

[jbeck5]

Interesting....

So we're supposed to take you theory about friendship clouding judgment as a potential 'fact' in play here, but ignore something written in the newspaper?

The sun might be a rag, it's true, but it still has more clout than you do.

I clearly worded it as if it was my opinion. People mentioned Boston are not. There's a big difference.

 

[Quo]

Didn't the sun report that Boston was interested in him? Can we really take that as a fact in an argument?

I believe it was Dreger.

NHL.com

The Ottawa Senators are expected to continue contract talks with defenseman Chris Phillips on Friday, according to TSN's Darren Dreger, who said the Boston Bruins are believed to be among the teams interested in trading for Phillips if the Senators decide to move him instead.

Not quite conclusive. Let's see if we can find anything else.

Bah. Everything on TSN is a 404 error now. Silly.

Twitter to the rescue:

Darren Dreger Verified account ‏@DarrenDreger

Expect Chris Philips contract talks to continue today. Trade still an option with Bruins believed to be among teams with interest.

According to this he was the first person on it.

 

[Micklebot]

I believe it was Dreger.

NHL.com



Not quite conclusive. Let's see if we can find anything else.

Bah. Everything on TSN is a 404 error now. Silly.

Here's another one,

"The Bruins are exploring trade talks with the Ottawa Senators to acquire 35-year-old defenseman Chris Phillips, according to a League source"

 

[Ice-Tray]

I clearly worded it as if it was my opinion. People mentioned Boston are not. There's a big difference.

Nice try, observe:

You think: it is "reasonable and obvious" that friendship played a major role in management signing Phillips to 2 more years.

Source: Your head.

Other poster thinks: Phillips' signing was more than just friendship as he has value to other teams, not just Ottawa.

Source: Newspaper article on traded deadline interest.

I suppose he could have said his opinion was unsubstantiated and purely from his head, and then it would be at the same level as yours.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's not uncommon for teams going on on a playoff run to go after vets who are known quantities. Having interest in Phillips for a few months as an insurance policy 6-8th D is a smart move.

That doesn't mean Phillips is having some sort of resurgence in his play or was worth getting a new deal, however. Completely different circumstances.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's not uncommon for teams going on on a playoff run to go after vets who are known quantities. Having interest in Phillips for a few months as an insurance policy 6-8th D is a smart move.

That doesn't mean Phillips is having some sort of resurgence in his play or was worth getting a new deal, however. Completely different circumstances.

That is certainly ONE interpretation of a situation that didn't play out.

It could also mean that Boston recognized that Phillips has traditionally been a playoff beast and felt that he could be a solid addition to the team for a playoff run.

It is also not uncommon for teams to pick up key players for a playoff run.

 

[Quo]

It's not uncommon for teams going on on a playoff run to go after vets who are known quantities. Having interest in Phillips for a few months as an insurance policy 6-8th D is a smart move.

Especially when said player is a known playoff commodity as well. Very smart.

Having other teams interested in him is not really the most important thing people who defend Philly are focused on IMO.

I think most of us have seen the same games and are just coming to a different conclusion on what we've seen and what that means for the future. Who's right? Time will tell.

 

[BigRig4]

Especially when said player is a known playoff commodity as well. Very smart.

Having other teams interested in him is not really the most important thing people who defend Philly are focused on IMO.

I think most of us have seen the same games and are just coming to a different conclusion on what we've seen and what that means for the future. Who's right? Time will tell.

Did anyone ever find out the details of his NTC and whether we could move him whatsoever at the deadline if it makes sense?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That is certainly ONE interpretation of a situation that didn't play out.

It could also mean that Boston recognized that Phillips has traditionally been a playoff beast and felt that he could be a solid addition to the team for a playoff run.

It is also not uncommon for teams to pick up key players for a playoff run.

So....you're saying the newspaper report that Boston was interested in Phillips is wrong, then (by saying it's an interpretation that didn't play out)?

You basically just repeated what I said otherwise. Confusing post.

Especially when said player is a known playoff commodity as well. Very smart.

Having other teams interested in him is not really the most important thing people who defend Philly are focused on IMO.

I think most of us have seen the same games and are just coming to a different conclusion on what we've seen and what that means for the future. Who's right? Time will tell.

What I mean is, teams having interest in Phillips for a playoff run doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not he deserved another contract. Or what he is going forward. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's the concept that other teams wanted Phillips for a playoff run so teams must think he's worth hanging onto for the next two years and management is right is what I'm getting at. To me that's a horrible argument to use.

If people want to argue he's worth a contract for his leadership or experience or dressing room presence or work in the community and all that....those are arguments I can see.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Especially when said player is a known playoff commodity as well. Very smart.

Having other teams interested in him is not really the most important thing people who defend Philly are focused on IMO.

I think most of us have seen the same games and are just coming to a different conclusion on what we've seen and what that means for the future. Who's right? Time will tell.

This is what it boils down to in my mind as well, and given that changing opinions on a condemned player is such a rare occurrence here, this divisiveness will continue until Phillips retires, and likely a year or two afterwards.

I'm curious as to whether a difference in perspective is at the root of it. Those who look for negativity find it wherever they look, and the same goes for positivity. Spezza syndrome....

 

[Micklebot]

Did anyone ever find out the details of his NTC and whether we could move him whatsoever at the deadline if it makes sense?

He had a 10 No trade to list according to CapGeek. His new contract also includes a limited NTC

...
What I mean is, teams having interest in Phillips for a playoff run doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not he deserved another contract. Or what he is going forward. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Boston showing interest was just brought forth as an example of a team that clearly did not think he was the worst defender (or one of) last year, because apparently the sens coach and management aren't valid examples because either the big rig is a nice guy and it clouds their judgment, or they just aren't very good evaluators of talent as evidenced by the teams poor season (but don't bring up the 2 prior season where the same coach was a runner up for the Jack Adams, and the winner of the Jack Adams). Boston was a team that likely evaluated him as someone who could be an asset if required. It's unlikely they inquire about him if they believed as some here do that he was a liability and washed up.

 

[aragorn]

Did anyone ever find out the details of his NTC and whether we could move him whatsoever at the deadline if it makes sense?

I just don't see Chris Phillips being traded, BM had an opportunity to not re-sign Phillips & they went ahead & signed him anyway knowing full well how he plays & that he is regressing. I think this is his last contract with Ottawa & they will let him retire gracefully at the end of it or sooner if he shows he can no longer play at an NHL level. I just don't see how they trade the longest serving Ottawa Senator player that wanted to stay & retire here & after re-signing him, I don't see it no matter how he plays. BM usually sticks by his veteran players & they work it out together.

 

[Quo]

What I mean is, teams having interest in Phillips for a playoff run doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not he deserved another contract. Or what he is going forward. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's the concept that other teams wanted Phillips for a playoff run so teams must think he's worth hanging onto for the next two years and management is right is what I'm getting at. To me that's a horrible argument to use.

If people want to argue he's worth a contract for his leadership or experience or dressing room presence or work in the community and all that....those are arguments I can see.

I don't disagree. As the example was being used, it's still valid. I don't put too much stock in it myself. I mean it's nice and all but not really the core issue. The core issue being 'is he really so terrible as he's sometimes made out to be on the ice?'. The intangibles are points in his favour as well.

 

[Ice-Tray]

So....you're saying the newspaper report that Boston was interested in Phillips is wrong, then (by saying it's an interpretation that didn't play out)?

You basically just repeated what I said otherwise. Confusing post.



What I mean is, teams having interest in Phillips for a playoff run doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not he deserved another contract. Or what he is going forward. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's the concept that other teams wanted Phillips for a playoff run so teams must think he's worth hanging onto for the next two years and management is right is what I'm getting at. To me that's a horrible argument to use.

If people want to argue he's worth a contract for his leadership or experience or dressing room presence or work in the community and all that....those are arguments I can see.

Consider: Since the trade never happened, this situation never played out, and we'll never know what the interest level was, and what role he would have played.

My quote had nothing to do with the veracity of the article in question at all.

My post is pretty much in direct opposition to what you wrote, I'm not sure how you could have confused that. We were hypothesizing about his role on Boston if a trade had been made remember? You: depth, me: Key.

As for the second bit...

I don't think anyone is using playoff interest to illustrate how he deserved a contract, It would seem that it is being used to counter the claims that Phillips is the worst defenceman in the league and that he is no longer an NHL player. The idea that at least one other team was interested in picking him up for the most crucial time of the year seems to fly in the face of such claims, no?

Now, if he indeed ISN'T the worst defenceman in the league, and other team's were alleged to be interested, perhaps there really is something missing with the negative assessments. Perhaps it's not actually crazy that he was indeed offered another contract, perhaps it really isn't the actions of a senile GM, rather, a manageable contract given to a veteran defenceman who appears to still have value to NHL teams, including ours.

Keep in mind that I don't agree with your assessment of Phillips' current ability, and as such my opinions don't come from the same place as yours. I can argue for Phillips contract based on whatever I see fit, whether you can 'see it' or not is your issue, not mine.

Phillips is a veteran NHL defenceman with an excellent resume with this team. He is also a better player than many of the other options we have, and THAT'S why he got a contract. Maybe the second year was to keep him here instead of testing the waters, maybe it was a thank you for his mountain of charitable and community works, and maybe the team wanted some insurance in case the youngsters on the back end continue to drop the ball.

Until someone plays better and bumps him down, he plays. Wier is an inferior defenceman, hence the number of healthy scratches. That's what my eyes saw, and it seems to be what the coaches saw as well.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I just don't see Chris Phillips being traded, BM had an opportunity to not re-sign Phillips & they went ahead & signed him anyway knowing full well how he plays & that he is regressing. I think this is his last contract with Ottawa & they will let him retire gracefully at the end of it or sooner if he shows he can no longer play at an NHL level. I just don't see how they trade the longest serving Ottawa Senator player that wanted to stay & retire here & after re-signing him, I don't see it no matter how he plays. BM usually sticks by his veteran players & they work it out together.

I agree.

Such stand up behaviour, and in a forum where so many fans want things to be cut-throat and inhuman.

The truth is, some things are more important than money, loyalty and community mean so much more. Maybe it's an age thing, or maybe it's just an unrecognizable situation for some people. For myself, I have had the pleasure of being part of something where loyalty, dignity and compassion were hard currency.

I respect it a ton, and love seeing it, and feel sorry for those who prefer to look at our team, and league in general, as simply a money generating business.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Consider: Since the trade never happened, this situation never played out, and we'll never know what the interest level was, and what role he would have played.

My quote had nothing to do with the veracity of the article in question at all.

My post is pretty much in direct opposition to what you wrote, I'm not sure how you could have confused that. We were hypothesizing about his role on Boston if a trade had been made remember? You: depth, me: Key.

As for the second bit...

I don't think anyone is using playoff interest to illustrate how he deserved a contract, It would seem that it is being used to counter the claims that Phillips is the worst defenceman in the league and that he is no longer an NHL player. The idea that at least one other team was interested in picking him up for the most crucial time of the year seems to fly in the face of such claims, no?

Now, if he indeed ISN'T the worst defenceman in the league, and other team's were alleged to be interested, perhaps there really is something missing with the negative assessments. Perhaps it's not actually crazy that he was indeed offered another contract, perhaps it really isn't the actions of a senile GM, rather, a manageable contract given to a veteran defenceman who appears to still have value to NHL teams, including ours.

Keep in mind that I don't agree with your assessment of Phillips' current ability, and as such my opinions don't come from the same place as yours. I can argue for Phillips contract based on whatever I see fit, whether you can 'see it' or not is your issue, not mine.

Phillips is a veteran NHL defenceman with an excellent resume with this team. He is also a better player than many of the other options we have, and THAT'S why he got a contract. Maybe the second year was to keep him here instead of testing the waters, maybe it was a thank you for his mountain of charitable and community works, and maybe the team wanted some insurance in case the youngsters on the back end continue to drop the ball.

Until someone plays better and bumps him down, he plays. Wier is an inferior defenceman, hence the number of healthy scratches. That's what my eyes saw, and it seems to be what the coaches saw as well.

With all due respect, you have no idea if I think Phillips deserved that new contract, or whether or not I feel he's the worst D in the league, because I have never specifically said either way.

I have said, at times, he was the worst defensemen on our team. That is a huge difference.

And yes, there is a huge difference between a team bringing in a vet to be a great presence as a 6-8D in or 'black aces' insurance policy for a few months, and subsequently extrapolating that somehow it means he is good to go for two whole years.

Now if you honestly think Phillips would've been a key member of Boston's D-corps in a playoff run last season.....now that goes beyond wildly optimistic. Only guy on our D roster that could manage to be a key cog to a team like Boston would've been Karlsson.

 

[Ice-Tray]

With all due respect, you have no idea if I think Phillips deserved that new contract, or whether or not I feel he's the worst D in the league, because I have never specifically said either way.

You said this: "If people want to argue he's worth a contract for his leadership or experience or dressing room presence or work in the community and all that....those are arguments I can see." That statement infers that any other reasons for getting a contract you CANNOT SEE, namely talent. If this is not what you meant, you'll have to excuse me for taking your words literally

I have said, at times, he was the worst defensemen on our team. That is a huge difference.

Though you are on of the consistent vocal detractors of Phillips, I have not said that you in particular called him the worst in the league, on purpose. If you feel that you didn't make such claims, then don't consider this argument aimed at you.

And yes, there is a huge difference between a team bringing in a vet to be a great presence as a 6-8D in or 'black aces' insurance policy for a few months, and subsequently extrapolating that somehow it means he is good to go for two whole years.

Again, no one, including me, have extrapolated that he deserved a 2 year contract based on some alleged interest from Boston at the deadline. What I HAVE said is that if it is the case, it does fly in the face of claims that he is the worst defenceman in the league.

Now if you honestly think Phillips would've been a key member of Boston's D-corps in a playoff run last season.....now that goes beyond wildly optimistic. Only guy on our D roster that could manage to be a key cog to a team like Boston would've been Karlsson.

I'm not wowed by Boston's D corp, but that's neither here nor there. These are your opinions of course, but Boston would not have given up assets to acquire Phillips to be a black ace. There is next to no precedent for a move like that, and would be terrible asset management given that every team has young players that can at best be a bench warmer.

Key addition doesn't mean he plays in the top four, Key means that he plays an important role on the team in the playoffs. An upgrade at any position while heading down the stretch can be a key decision, an upgrade to the pressbox is not.

In reality though, arguing about what his role could have been, and how much of an impact he could have had is meaningless. Your position in this fantasy is simply to support your views on his abilities, my position was merely to counter yours as an equally plausible outcome of a scenario that never played out. Personally, I really don't care much about the Boston bit, but it is interesting to see you run with it to support your opinion, while simultaneously trying to deny others' using it to back theirs.

In the end, we differ on Phillips' current skill, his value to the team, the merit of his contract, and how it all makes us feel inside. I'm ok with that.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

A handful of posts during the entire season and summer does not make one a "constant vocal detractor of Phillips."

And you still don't see what I was talking about, but whatever. You're acting like an internet crusader when there's nothing to crusade against.

 

[Ice-Tray]

A handful of posts during the entire season and summer does not make one a "constant vocal detractor of Phillips."

And you still don't see what I was talking about, but whatever. You're acting like an internet crusader when there's nothing to crusade against.

It's obvious to everyone what you're saying, this is just the response that you're getting because it doesn't make any sense. You keep on about something that no one has said, maybe if you keep at it the outcome will change?

A handful of negative posts in this thread about Phillips where people are discussing Phillips, so yes, you are amongst the detractors, that doesn't have to be taken as an insult, you know. I am among the supporters and have been treated accordingly.

I'm arguing on behalf of my opinions of Phillips' value. I can see it being uncomfortable, given that the argument you introduced got shredded, but it would show much more class to just admit is was a poor one and move on, rather than trying to go on the offensive with some flimsy name calling.

Perhaps, you just don't like it when people disagree with you?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's obvious to everyone what you're saying, this is just the response that you're getting because it doesn't make any sense. You keep on about something that no one has said, maybe if you keep at it the outcome will change?

A handful of negative posts in this thread about Phillips where people are discussing Phillips, so yes, you are amongst the detractors, that doesn't have to be taken as an insult, you know. I am among the supporters and have been treated accordingly.

I'm arguing on behalf of my opinions of Phillips' value. I can see it being uncomfortable, given that the argument you introduced got shredded, but it would show much more class to just admit is was a poor one and move on, rather than trying to go on the offensive with some flimsy name calling.

Perhaps, you just don't like it when people disagree with you?

My argument wasn't shredded. It was sidestepped.

 

[DrEasy]

Doesn't the fact that the Phillips trade didn't happen mean that Ottawa values him more than whatever Boston offered to get him?

So maybe Boston sees him as a valuable 7th D on the bench to use in case of injury, and maybe Ottawa sees him as a top 4 D to use in all important phases of the game, including the PP or in the last minutes of a game to preserve (and unfortunately sometimes blow) a win.

In any case, clearly Phillips isn't the worst defenseman in the league. I don't know who said it, and it could have simply been rhetorical anyway. Doesn't mean that other Phillips detractors don't have a point. And that was my second double negative for this post.

 

[Micklebot]

Doesn't the fact that the Phillips trade didn't happen mean that Ottawa values him more than whatever Boston offered to get him?

So maybe Boston sees him as a valuable 7th D on the bench to use in case of injury, and maybe Ottawa sees him as a top 4 D to use in all important phases of the game, including the PP or in the last minutes of a game to preserve (and unfortunately sometimes blow) a win.

In any case, clearly Phillips isn't the worst defenseman in the league. I don't know who said it, and it could have simply been rhetorical anyway. Doesn't mean that other Phillips detractors don't have a point. And that was my second double negative for this post.

He had a Limited NTC. He could have been asked to waive and declined. For what it's worth, I seem to recall reading that the team asked him if he'd be interested in being moved to a contender at the deadline, and his preference was to stay, so we didn't push the matter any further.

It's also worth mentioning that Boston did have some injuries on the backend at the time, I think it was Seidenberg, but that's just off the top of my head. That doesn't mean the intent was to replace him with Phillips though. They ended up settling for Mezaros (a conditional 3rd was used to acquire him). Assuming this was their second choice, we can presume either they value Phillips more, or the cost for Phillips was less. I'd lean towards the former, but who knows.

All that said, I think Phillips was signed for 2 reasons; 1) he's as good as any option not named Methot on our Left side. 2) he'll act as a player coach, and help groom a young group for the future.

The second point is where the bulk of his value likely comes, and is something nobody here will actually see in action. While his play may not be up to par, having him pass on his experience is certainly an asset (if you can't do, teach, after all). In the end, the move is low risk because if he's not in the lineup, he's still an asset to the team.

 

[operasen]

I just don't see Chris Phillips being traded, BM had an opportunity to not re-sign Phillips & they went ahead & signed him anyway knowing full well how he plays & that he is regressing. I think this is his last contract with Ottawa & they will let him retire gracefully at the end of it or sooner if he shows he can no longer play at an NHL level. I just don't see how they trade the longest serving Ottawa Senator player that wanted to stay & retire here & after re-signing him, I don't see it no matter how he plays. BM usually sticks by his veteran players & they work it out together.

Not now that they just resigned him - and that NMC will handcuff them moving forward. Terrible signing. Should have retired and become an assistant coach in Binghamton.

He's keeping Claesson out of the mix entirely.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not now that they just resigned him - and that NMC will handcuff them moving forward. Terrible signing. Should have retired and become an assistant coach in Binghamton.

He's keeping Claesson out of the mix entirely.

Does Claesson deserve to be in the mix? We really seem to have a lot of guys who are borderline NHL/AHL defensemen. I really doubt Gryba, Boro, Claesson, or Grant would ever be full time NHLers on most teams.

 

[Micklebot]

Not now that they just resigned him - and that NMC will handcuff them moving forward. Terrible signing. Should have retired and become an assistant coach in Binghamton.

He's keeping Claesson out of the mix entirely.

Claesson is far better off playing big minutes in Bingo than fighting for the right to sub in and out of the 6th spot in Ottawa. If he's good enough to surplant a top 4 position, or a permanent spot on the bottom pair, the team will make room for him.