Value of: Chris Kreider

[SlapshotTheMovie]

Much more likely that Hayes or Zuccarello get traded.

I would be extremely surprised if either of them are in New York the day after the deadline.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Prep school hockey is all over the US. You just don't know about it, but I'll open it up a little more.

Players who aren't playing major junior or men's level pro hockey when drafted.



Well, at that point he definitely wasn't. Stepan had an absolutely incredible WJC earlier on that year and a good season at Wisconsin as was viewed as the most ready prospect the team had. So while HF might have had him there, he definitely wasn't the best according to the organization.



I'm not deflecting anything. I've come out and listed fact after fact about this guy and because you think Bernmeister speaks for every Ranger fan that he's a bust, when he's not. He is what he is and could he score 30+ in a season? Yes, considering he had 28 2 years ago and missed 7 games that year.

It's easy to get blinded by speed, size and physical strength.



It's not baffling. You just miss the point. He was a project that they took in the 2nd half of the first round. The organization knew they were rolling the dice a little, but they took a chance on a player that they thought had the potential to be more. If anything, they did well considering where he was picked.

If you can't understand that, that's not my problem or any Ranger fan's problem for that matter.

Speaking of avoidance, still waiting on that list.

You should run a google search on NHLers who played prep hockey. Plenty of recognizable names.

I have no idea what your angle is - are you simply blindly defending the team you cheer for?

I called him a relative bust (excuse me, is disappointment a more... proper... term for you?) myself and have no idea why you are drawing some conclusion based on another poster.

In fact, the entire point you yourself is making is:

A) he went to prep school
B) he was a middle-late 1st round pick

Therefore

He has surpassed all expectations and is a superhero, overcoming incredible obstacles.


Let's not be so naive here - as Kreider was developing we all expected him to be so much more than a 21 goal scorer no matter how much you want to defend the NYR for whatever odd reason. He had hype and excitement and I too was a fan of his. As I said, I wanted him in Boston for years and would have been glad if the Bruins paid a ransom a decade ago.

Now? A 1st or prospect like Heinen is plenty. Any type of youth package is too much for what Kreider actually is.

 

[One Winged Angel]

You should run a google search on NHLers who played prep hockey. Plenty of recognizable names.

So, wait... you went from telling me that I'm narrowing it down to such a small selection to now there's tons? Pick a side and stick with it.

I have no idea what your angle is - are you simply blindly defending the team you cheer for?

You can't see what my angle is? Well then you're absolutely lost.

I called him a relative bust (excuse me, is disappointment a more... proper... term for you?) myself and have no idea why you are drawing some conclusion based on another poster.

Neither term is applicable. The point was is that you're using terms that are not applicable here. I simply asked you to provide comparables, which you have not and continue to refuse to do so because you clearly don't have one and are talking out of your ass.

In fact, the entire point you yourself is making is:

A) he went to prep school
B) he was a middle-late 1st round pick

Therefore

He has surpassed all expectations and is a superhero, overcoming incredible obstacles.

No, I'm saying he's met expectations and that aside from a few posters who may have hyped him up because they're excited about a player (this sounds like it's a foreign concept to you, or that you're above such a thing, which would be hilarious) no one had him pegged as anything near a point per game player. Most of us thought 30-30-60 at the very best.

So where is the disappointment? That he's about 5 goals and 10 points off of that mark? Yeah, that's not crying over spilled milk or anything.

Let's not be so naive here - as Kreider was developing we all expected him to be so much more than a 21 goal scorer no matter how much you want to defend the NYR for whatever odd reason. He had hype and excitement and I too was a fan of his. As I said, I wanted him in Boston for years and would have been glad if the Bruins paid a ransom a decade ago.

Good for you. Maybe your angle is that you're trying to use this "disappointment" as a way to devalue Kreider.

Now? A 1st or prospect like Heinen is plenty. Any type of youth package is too much for what Kreider actually is.

Annnnnnndddd now it all makes sense.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

So, wait... you went from telling me that I'm narrowing it down to such a small selection to now there's tons? Pick a side and stick with it.



You can't see what my angle is? Well then you're absolutely lost.



Neither term is applicable. The point was is that you're using terms that are not applicable here. I simply asked you to provide comparables, which you have not and continue to refuse to do so because you clearly don't have one and are talking out of your ass.



No, I'm saying he's met expectations and that aside from a few posters who may have hyped him up because they're excited about a player (this sounds like it's a foreign concept to you, or that you're above such a thing, which would be hilarious) no one had him pegged as anything near a point per game player. Most of us thought 30-30-60 at the very best.

So where is the disappointment? That he's about 5 goals and 10 points off of that mark? Yeah, that's not crying over spilled milk or anything.



Good for you. Maybe your angle is that you're trying to use this "disappointment" as a way to devalue Kreider.



Annnnnnndddd now it all makes sense.

This is painful. Yes, you selected a very small sample size of prep school players drafted in the latter half of the first round. I simply said there are plenty of hockey prep players in general who have gone on to do well in the NHL. Again, your point is 'praise the hockey gods, Kreider overcame all odds as a hockey prep long shot to even make the NHL!!'.

Regardless, you are less into making actual points than deflecting and nitpicking arguments. If your goal is to win a debate on technicalities, enjoy.

If I, as a non Rangers fan, expected 30-30 at minimum (not at best) then surely there are many similar opinions among your fanbase.

I'd wager you are in the very, very tiny minority who would have simply been excited had Chris Kreider been a 4th liner due to his draft position and coming from prep hockey.



Also, how does thinking he has been a relative disappointment leading to lessened value in any way disprove what my thoughts are? Very baffling.

A 21 goal forward is not as valuable in a trade as he could have been had he reached his potential. Shocking?!

 

[One Winged Angel]

This is painful.

Irony is painful for you, hilarious for me.

Yes, you selected a very small sample size of prep school players drafted in the latter half of the first round. I simply said there are plenty of hockey prep players in general who have gone on to do well in the NHL. Again, your point is 'praise the hockey gods, Kreider overcame all odds as a hockey prep long shot to even make the NHL!!'.

So then why don't you name the comparables so you can educate us all as to who he should have became? Since he's such a disappointment.

Or if not, do us all of the favor and cut the crap.

Regardless, you are less into making actual points than deflecting and nitpicking arguments. If your goal is to win a debate on technicalities, enjoy.

I've made several points and countered and bested you at every pass possible. You're the one who made an absolutely outlandish claim who refuses to back up anything by repeating the same points over and over again and providing zero evidence to support your theory other than your misinformed and misguided opinion and bias.

If I, as a non Rangers fan, expected 30-30 at minimum (not at best) then surely there are many similar opinions among your fanbase.

Again, like I've said, aside from a certain few, most of us were reasonable. If you want to provide proof of this, go right ahead. You claim the evidence to be plentiful, now is your time to put up or shut up and to start providing something concrete, other than terrible tacky attempts at awful sarcasm and glib.

I'd wager you are in the very, very tiny minority who would have simply been excited had Chris Kreider been a 4th liner due to his draft position and coming from prep hockey.

Yes, because me specifically stating verbatim in my previous post that "he met expectations" is stating that I thought he was going to be a 4th liner. This is the second time in this post alone where you've proven that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Also, how does thinking he has been a relative disappointment leading to lessened value in any way disprove what my thoughts are? Very baffling.

I don't know if you just speak disingenuously on accident or do actually you lie so much that you actually believe yourself?

If you can't see the correlation then this conversation isn't worth continuing, as you actually might be lost beyond any help.

A 21 goal forward is not as valuable in a trade as he could have been had he reached his potential. Shocking?!

Let's call him a 21 goal forward, I'm guessing you averaged his goals and totally pushed aside the 28 he scored in 75 games in 2017, yet call him a 50 point player, which he's only done once.

You can't even get yourself straight. Come back when you gather your bearings.

 

[Sens]

Why do you keep calling him a 21G scorer... he had 28 in 75 two years ago

 

[One Winged Angel]

Why do you keep calling him a 21G scorer... he had 28 in 75 two years ago

Because his entire existence in this thread is to attempt to devalue Kreider so that Ranger fans will agree with his misguided assessment that Kreider should only be worth Heinen and a 1st.

What he fails to realize is that at the end of the day, what we say has literally no bearing on what players are dealt for. It's funny and sad at the same time considering that he was most likely one of the vast majority that said that the Rangers would be lucky to get a 2nd for Rick Nash, but his Bruins ended up forking up quite a haul for him. He's probably still angry about that.

 

[bernmeister]

Scoring is only 1 aspect of a player's game.
CK's presence is a big + besides only goals scored.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Scoring is only 1 aspect of a player's game.
CK's presence is a big + besides only goals scored.

If you think he is worth a first, you should keep him and his intangibles. Maybe he can run over a goalie or two.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If you think he is worth a first, you should keep him and his intangibles. Maybe he can run over a goalie or two.

Throw in Emelin and you got a deal.

 

[Kupo]

If you think he is worth a first, you should keep him and his intangibles. Maybe he can run over a goalie or two.

Tatar was traded last deadline for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Nash was traded for a 1st last year and he's a fraction of the player Kreider is right now. Hell, Grabner got a 2nd and a pretty good prospect in Rykov. You clearly don't understand the trade market. Nor do you understand what a trip is.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

If you think he is worth a first, you should keep him and his intangibles. Maybe he can run over a goalie or two.

2 years of Chris Kreider is absolutely worth a first round pick +....you clearly have idea what you're even talking about. bottom-6 rental players regularly fetch 1st round picks at the deadline....

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I'm not big into corsi or adv stats but Kreider is one of those guys who is undervalued by traditional scoring stats. I always hoped he'd be more of a point getter but he is what he is.

bergeronStan calling him a middle six player is hillarious, more funny than calling him an elite player which he also is not. He really helps drive the play at even strength, so even though he might not get as many points as other 'first line' players he still drives goal differential like one based on how he drives play.

 

[TGWL]

You are specifically asking for a tiny sample size, one that is mostly limited to the New England region and select few other areas where hockey is a main focus.

Hockeysfuture might not be the most reputable prospect site but in September of 2010 they had him as the NYR top prospect over the likes of Stepan and others.

You are purposely deflecting the potential Kreider had to be a top tier player to fit some little narrative. Yes, Kreider should have developed into more than a 21 goal, 50 point scorer based on his potential.

Your point of his being drafted out of prep school is baffling at best... that means absolutely nothing. Is he a lesser player for the development route he chose?! Very odd. You must have seen where he was drafted from and hoped he'd simply turn into an NHLer... very odd.

You do know Rangers have not had a great prospect pool, right? You also know that Stepan was drafted as a late second round pick, right? You also know that nobody expected Stepan to even make the team in 2010, but he had a great junior tournament, a great prospect tournament and an amazing pre-season where he won his spot, right? Saying his was listed as a higher prospect than Stepan is really saying nothing. If you look at Kreider, pre-Rangers, what we got out of him is simply amazing. If you look at Kreider based on what he's capable of doing, you're left disappointment and wanting more. He's exceeded his expected potential from draft day.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

What would ranger fans want from Nashville, their 2019 1st plus what for kreider

 

[Shootertooter]

What would ranger fans want from Nashville, their 2019 1st plus what for kreider

The problem is that I see the Preds being a final 4 team, so their 1st isn't all that attractive @28 or later. Blow us away with some solid prospects

 

[Bluto]

Kreider is available to the highest bidder. Dont care what we get as long as its the highest return possible. If the Isles offer the best package, send him there.

 

[GoldOnGold]

The problem is that I see the Preds being a final 4 team, so their 1st isn't all that attractive @28 or later. Blow us away with some solid prospects

Our prospect pool is a little on the shallow side these days.

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider is available to the highest bidder. Dont care what we get as long as its the highest return possible. If the Isles offer the best package, send him there.

Disagree.
We are not giving him the bum's rush outta town.
Has to be the best offer AND sufficiently high or no deal.

He is on contract thru next year at <5.
Want 1st + good pick value MIN for EACH of BOTH years.
Highest competitive bid there, we talk to seal the deal.
Anything less, happy to extend 5 years @5.2 or thereabouts.

 

[bernmeister]

Our prospect pool is a little on the shallow side these days.

Not your fault, but not something that prompts us to take less.