Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[SnowblindNYR]

The funny thing all of last season Drew was complaining about the team. Now all of a sudden they were a Rick Nash away from winning the cup. Seems like he'd find any reason to complain.

 

[broadwayblue]

If you're inferring that Sather is a wonderful GM, I think it's time for you to take up another sport to be a fan of. The guy hasn't done squat in over 20 years as a GM. The only thing I'll give him credit for is unloading via trade the ridiculous signings he has made over the years!

Never said he was a wonderful GM. He's made quite a few bonehead signings...but fortunately he's been quite adept at fixing them, and in some cases turning them into gold. I just think it's foolish to say that he erred by not caving to Howson's huge demands to deal for Nash, when doing so would likely have made us a worse team down the stretch. We didn't have the depth to handle losing 2 or 3 roster players for Nash, particularly when one if them (granted it's in hind sight) had quite the post-season performance.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If you're inferring that Sather is a wonderful GM, I think it's time for you to take up another sport to be a fan of. The guy hasn't done squat in over 20 years as a GM. The only thing I'll give him credit for is unloading via trade the ridiculous signings he has made over the years!

Yeah Sather has done nothing, except put together a team that was apparently a Rick Nash away from winning the cup. Or were they just all a bunch of scrubs and Rick Nash is the messiah and would have single handedly brought them a cup despite the scrub team Sather put together? You have more holes in your arguments than 50 Cent after being shot 9 times.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's not about the record. This team is just doing things contenders don't do.

It's not all about talent and points. They have talent, and as such they will get their share of points. But championship teams play clean. That's the important thing. The Rangers, I would argue, are the sloppiest team in the league.

The Rangers last year 9 games in were outplayed in pretty much every game and were 3-3-3 largely because Lundqvist was amazing (and Biron against Winnipeg). This included a 3 goal blown lead in the 3rd to a team much worse than the Bruins. It included, being outclassed by the terrible Leafs (albeit they were pretty good to start the season), where Lundqvist who is "meh" now had a brutal game and the team looked like ****. It included a 2-1 win against the aforementioned Jets where Biron stood on his head and we got completely outplayed by a mediocre to bad Jets team and only won because Cally's pass hit someone and went in the net. It included a 2-0 shutout where we looked like **** against the 2nd worst team in the league (albeit they too had a decent start). It included a 2-1 shootout loss to the Ducks. Richards scored a goal with 3 minutes left. I'm pretty sure that was the only chance we had all game. Ducks missed the playoffs. This was before the coaching change too. Then after we "righted our ship" we lost to the worst team in the east in Montreal by a combined 8-1 on the road. We were down 4-0 10 minutes in against the Blackhawks who lost 9 in a row, including a penalty shot and 2 breakaways. Sound like a contender to you?

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Kreider had 5 goals in the playoffs. He played really well. Would Nash be enough of an upgrade over that that we'd be able to beat the Devils who dominated us? Kreider was also a shot in the arm to the team emotionally. The team looked spent in the Ottawa series until he showed up. We may not get out of the first round without him! Ok, and maybe we beat the Devils, we're not beating the Kings. Nash alone would not have made the difference. The Kings were just playing on another level. Stepan was our #2 center. Would you want Boyle to be our #2 center? We'd give up possibly Dubi and Artie in the deal. We'd have Brian ****ing Boyle as our #2 center in the playoffs. Yeah we're beating the Devils and Kings with that. Also you irrational HATE for DZ makes you lose all ****ing common sense man. Do you want Stu ****ing Bickel as our #5 D-man? Un-****ing-real. Maybe we should also have shipped your other favorite defenseman Staal and had Bickel in our #2 pairing.

Let's not carried away chief! I see what I see and as it relates to trading for an elite talent like Nash, there is no ****** way a Stepan, Del Zotto or a Kreider will ever be confused with the term "untouchables"
Perhaps you should start watching the games without the rose colored glasses on like so many other posters here. Del Zotto, especially when paired with Staal are a trainwreck when it comes to getting the lousy puck out of the zone.
Staal? I suppose you just loved his dying quail of a clearing pass last nite that got intercepted by the wonderful 4th line for the Islanders and subsequently turned into a goal that jump started their comeback!

Look, of course we can't afford to lose Stepan right now because the center position on the team is so weak.
As it relates to Del Zotto, I like him and believe he has strong potential, but I think he'll be hampered by his lack of hockey smarts.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Yeah Sather has done nothing, except put together a team that was apparently a Rick Nash away from winning the cup. Or were they just all a bunch of scrubs and Rick Nash is the messiah and would have single handedly brought them a cup despite the scrub team Sather put together? You have more holes in your arguments than 50 Cent after being shot 9 times.

Another Sather lover? Indeed!
So you think he's done a great job as our GM the past almost 13 years?? Get ****** serious, will you please!

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

This place has become a real ****show over the past year or so.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Let's not carried away chief! I see what I see and as it relates to trading for an elite talent like Nash, there is no ****** way a Stepan, Del Zotto or a Kreider will ever be confused with the term "untouchables"
Perhaps you should start watching the games without the rose colored glasses on like so many other posters here. Del Zotto, especially when paired with Staal are a trainwreck when it comes to getting the lousy puck out of the zone.
Staal? I suppose you just loved his dying quail of a clearing pass last nite that got intercepted by the wonderful 4th line for the Islanders and subsequently turned into a goal that jump started their comeback!

Look, of course we can't afford to lose Stepan right now because the center position on the team is so weak.
As it relates to Del Zotto, I like him and believe he has strong potential, but I think he'll be hampered by his lack of hockey smarts.

Your problem is you bring up a couple of examples of poor play and run with them. There are at least 20 teams that would love to have either Staal or Del Zotto. Also, you didn't answer my question, do you want Stu Bickel as the #5 defenseman. Maybe we should have brought up Jeff Woywitka and had ourselves a real cup winning bottom pairing. The 2 worst D-men in the league probably (although you seem to think that's Staal and Del Zotto).

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Another Sather lover? Indeed!
So you think he's done a great job as our GM the past almost 13 years?? Get ****** serious, will you please!

Can you please respond to your logical fallacies please? Do you believe that the Rangers were a Nash away from the Cup? If so, was the team a good team or do you think so highly of Nash that you think he could transform a garbage team into a cup winner?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Can you please respond to your logical fallacies please? Do you believe that the Rangers were a Nash away from the Cup? If so, was the team a good team or do you think so highly of Nash that you think he could transform a garbage team into a cup winner?

I think what he's saying is the stars were aligned for us last year. Pitt and Boston out, 2 teams we probably don't beat, and adding Nash could have put us over the top

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Your problem is you bring up a couple of examples of poor play and run with them. There are at least 20 teams that would love to have either Staal or Del Zotto. Also, you didn't answer my question, do you want Stu Bickel as the #5 defenseman. Maybe we should have brought up Jeff Woywitka and had ourselves a real cup winning bottom pairing. The 2 worst D-men in the league probably (although you seem to think that's Staal and Del Zotto).

That's just it in a nutshell pal. Everybody posts here about how wonderful and deep we are in prospects yet when push comes to shove "we ain't got nobody!"
When it comes time to trading for an elite talent like Nash at the deadline, we can't afford to move the following supposed "untouchable players for him:
1)A "defacto 2nd line center" who doesn't skate very well, doesn't win many faceoffs, doesn't score many goals when it counts(playoffs for example) and who gets knocked off the puck by a strong wind
2) A prospect with size, skating ability and a shot who just got sent down to the AHL, or
3) A defenseman with great upside offensively who, at times, looks "completely lost" on the defensive side.

You tell me what's wrong with this picture since you're so smart??

 

[Drewbackatu*]

The funny thing all of last season Drew was complaining about the team. Now all of a sudden they were a Rick Nash away from winning the cup. Seems like he'd find any reason to complain.

I never stated that we were a "Rick Nash away from winning a cup" but I'll tell you one thing for sure; "We weren't a John Scott away from winning the cup either!".
Get my drift??

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Can you please respond to your logical fallacies please? Do you believe that the Rangers were a Nash away from the Cup? If so, was the team a good team or do you think so highly of Nash that you think he could transform a garbage team into a cup winner?

What I think is what most of my friends who have common sense believe and that's this;
"When you have a legitimate chance to compete for a cup(as we did last year), then it is incumbent of your GM to do whatever is humanly possible to improve the team's chances."
Rick Nash would have made a big difference in our lineup last year, don't you think?
I think we could have gotten by the Devils with him but not the Kings.

Just my opinion, mind you.

 

[Jabroni]

Guys, stop derailing this thread. this is about Kreider and Miller, not Rick Nash and Glen Sather.

The next person to go off topic will receive an infraction.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Wait...Kreider's in the AHL? Dumb move.

Apologies, I've been under a rock all day at work

 

[Callagraves]

So I know most people are up in arms about CK being sent to the whale, but i'm mroe perplexed about keeping Miller up. The kid has shown sparkplug difference-maker potential, but I'm not sure he's there yet, in terms of doing it consistently at the highest level in sports.

Do you think he'd be more suited to getting 20+ a night down at hartford?

 

[JCrusher*]

This was a very good move by Torts. kreider has been awful and tentative.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

So I know most people are up in arms about CK being sent to the whale, but i'm mroe perplexed about keeping Miller up. The kid has shown sparkplug difference-maker potential, but I'm not sure he's there yet, in terms of doing it consistently at the highest level in sports.

Do you think he'd be more suited to getting 20+ a night down at hartford?

Look, Miller probably isn't there yet but bear in mind he's 19 years old and in his 2nd year.
What I see in Miller that I don't see in Kreider right now(despite Kreider having a superior skill set and size) is Miller works harder more often and appears to have a higher hockey IQ.

Again, just my opinion!

 

[Callagraves]

Look, Miller probably isn't there yet but bear in mind he's 19 years old and in his 2nd year.
What I see in Miller that I don't see in Kreider right now(despite Kreider having a superior skill set and size) is Miller works harder more often and appears to have a higher hockey IQ.

Again, just my opinion!

Precisely. It's unfair to him to expect him to produce consistently in the NHL at this level. I don't worry too much because Torts himself has said he will do anything but ruin a prospect by rushing him. I'm just not sure if Torts sees things in practice or in games that I'm missing. He probably does.

You can tell there's something missing from CK's game, and that he's on the verge of putting it together. I think confidence and swagger, and though Torts haters will crucify me, "jam" need to be injected into his style of play. He only logged 3 shots on goal in his 7 games here.

 

[cd211]

Being on this board reading all you shenanigans is like riding the kingda ka across america and back....

I agree with most that Kreider should play and learn on the fly..Miller has show enough to stay and those two should be playing daily..

but....

you guys rat on one player for poor play and say they are overvalued and should be traded or cut and then they'll have a good game and be stellar and then they're top centers/wings etc again...

its so funny reading this, you guys change your thoughts daily..

the biggest thing about this team is we changed over key players from last years team plain and simple...

we changed our entire bottom 6 and it just goes to show you can't be a top heavy team because your exposed, but mainly we're so up and down is because everyone is trying to come a custom to the new system and team (halper, powe, asham, pyatt, miller/kreider even, nash, gaborik playing LW) all this adds up to a cluster **** and learning on the fly since no training camp..

we're 6-3-1 our last 10 from starting the reason basically 0-3.. how about we all relax, buckle up in our seats and watch as the season goes on.. we're only going to get better and the NHL season is a big up and down season.. hockey is all about facing adversity, which every team is going through... Philly sucks this year, toronto is in the playoff picture, Montreal is there... but look at our schedule and who we've been playing solid teams night in and night out.. we played boston 3 times, pitt 2 give me a break, and noone of those teams have gone through any changes... Boston is probably the deepest team in the league and havent changed much of there roster except a player or 2 in 3-4 even 5 years soo hang on... LGR!!!!!!! and enjoy the show bc its always going to be up and down it happens to every team!!! we need to get use to each other and we'll grow as a team!!!

We're still a young team, mistakes will happen!!

 

[Callagraves]

Being on this board reading all you shenanigans is like riding the kingda ka across america and back....

I agree with most that Kreider should play and learn on the fly..Miller has show enough to stay and those two should be playing daily..

but....

you guys rat on one player for poor play and say they are overvalued and should be traded or cut and then they'll have a good game and be stellar and then they're top centers/wings etc again...

its so funny reading this, you guys change your thoughts daily..

the biggest thing about this team is we changed over key players from last years team plain and simple...

we changed our entire bottom 6 and it just goes to show you can't be a top heavy team because your exposed, but mainly we're so up and down is because everyone is trying to come a custom to the new system and team (halper, powe, asham, pyatt, miller/kreider even, nash, gaborik playing LW) all this adds up to a cluster **** and learning on the fly since no training camp..

we're 6-3-1 our last 10 from starting the reason basically 0-3.. how about we all relax, buckle up in our seats and watch as the season goes on.. we're only going to get better and the NHL season is a big up and down season.. hockey is all about facing adversity, which every team is going through... Philly sucks this year, toronto is in the playoff picture, Montreal is there... but look at our schedule and who we've been playing solid teams night in and night out.. we played boston 3 times, pitt 2 give me a break, and noone of those teams have gone through any changes... Boston is probably the deepest team in the league and havent changed much of there roster except a player or 2 in 3-4 even 5 years soo hang on... LGR!!!!!!! and enjoy the show bc its always going to be up and down it happens to every team!!! we need to get use to each other and we'll grow as a team!!!

We're still a young team, mistakes will happen!!

Welcome to Hockey's Future, where we discuss how fast young players evolve, and complain when it's not as rapid as how fast our opinions of them change!

 

[cd211]

Welcome to Hockey's Future, where we discuss how fast young players evolve, and complain when it's not as rapid as how fast our opinions of them change!

haha i love it, thats why we come to this madhouse, but seriously guys we're talking about poeple from ages 19-25 years old, which is half our team.. we're so young and we're solid!! its only going to get better, bc they've shown so much promise already.. Growing painss!!

 

[Kwayry]

Welcome to Hockey's Future, where we discuss how fast young players evolve, and complain when it's not as rapid as how fast our opinions of them change!

Where video games players come here to discuss their expert knowledge of hockey.

 

[aemoreira1981]

So can it be presumed yet that the Rangers will not slide J.T. Miller's contract? If he plays another game this season, his ELC starts.

On Kreider---to me, he should not have been up at all this season in the first place, since he was struggling so badly with the Whale. (Off-topic---does Christian Thomas deserve a 5-game look?)

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The way Kreider and Miller are being thrown to the wolves right now is bringing back some bad memories.

They have to work through it no doubt. I get that the NYR in win-now in a short season, but I can't see how this helps their confidence or "learning".

I don't think this describes it at all. They've been given a chance just as McD, MDZ, STaal, Cally all were given chances and when they weren't ready EVERY SINGLE one of these guys was sent back down for more seasoning (Staal to CHL). I'd venture a guess to say the only reason we view this differently is because we have unfair expectations of not only Krieder but of the staff to play him now.

That said I didn't see Kreider screwing up defensively I also didn't see him maiing many plays. His mind may need to catch up. Best way is to get big minutes which is why we have an AHL squad. No shame in having him go down. Sauer took YEARS to be ready and I already mentioned all of the above. Thats the nature of the beast (The beast being prospect development). He's not going to purgatory and he's on a two way let him play more minutes and he's available just a phone call away