Chicago vs Pittsburgh: Which is the greater franchise in this generation?

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

We can go back and forth on this all night if you want, Pit needed 7 against a Tampa team that didnt have their starting goalie, no Stamkos through games 1-6, and they needed 6 against a Nashville team that had Colton Sissons as their 1C with no Johansen, Fiala, and Ellis having a torn MCL. Pit also needed game 7OT against a sens team that didnt make the playoffs the previous year (2016) and the following year (2018) on top of an injured Karlsson. Acting as if only Chicago struggled against some teams is just being comical. (insert terrible lawyer comment here)

vasilesky is better than bishop and he was hot in that series, stamkos always no shows in the playoffs so that's a moot point

yes you can make an argument both teams might have struggled more against certain teams they should've easily beaten, but I don't see any legit argument for the hawks being more successful post lockout, all I see is biased opinions

here are facts

pens have more cup appearances, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins, more individual trophies

I don't see how the hawks top that

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Chicago as of right now, no homer.

3 Cup in 6 years > 3 Cups in 9 years

Everything else is ancillary. Granted, the caveat is easily open for the Penguins to surpass the Hawks if they win a fourth Cup in this era.

But still, 1 and 2 or 1A and 1B, it's clearly these two teams as the franchises of the era.

 

[ColbyChaos]

vasilesky is better than bishop and he was hot in that series, stamkos always no shows in the playoffs so that's a moot point

yes you can make an argument both teams might have struggled more against certain teams they should've easily beaten, but I don't see any legit argument for the hawks being more successful post lockout, all I see is biased opinions

here are facts

pens have more cup appearances, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins, more individual trophies

I don't see how the hawks top that

So your rebuttal for that Tampa series that needed 7 is biased opinions? (terrible lawyer comment goes here) Ben Bishop's stats during the 2016 playoffs 1.86 GAA and a .939 sv% coupled with a 2.06 GAA and .926 sv% through the regular season. Vassy had a .910 sv% and 2.76 GAA in the regular season coupled by a .925 with a 2.76 GAA to say Vassy was better that year is just a pathetic attempt at propping your team up, also humerous seeing you write off Stamkos when he has been ppg in the playoffs this year some no show. Hawks didnt need game 7 OT against a team that didnt even make the playoffs the previous and following year either.

Hawks won 3 before Pit even got to #2 and did it without generational talents on top of play. Hawks needed less games in each of their respective cup runs (73 total for Pit from 09,16,17 and 68 total needed for Chicago)

more dominant in cup runs = Chicago
better championship teams in the cap era = chicago
better all time team from championship teams in the cap era = chicago.

Name one player who left Pit for the cap that is even on the same scale of Raanta, Byfuglien, Leddy, Campbell, Ladd

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-Stats have been posted. Pens have far more playoff dominance

New ERA NHL Cups

Pens-5
Hawks-3

This thread can now be closed

 

[Rorschach]

Of the three possible Cup caliber teams, the Hawks played two of them and beat them both once. Pitt has beaten no one of note.

 

[cpsman]

The Chicago Blackhawks and Pittsburgh Penguins have unquestionably been the two greatest franchises of this generation (post-lockout). They've combined to win 6 cups since '09, and appear in 7 cup finals since '08. But which franchise has been greater? Is it the pens who won back-to-back cups, or the Blackhawks won their three total cups in a considerably shorter time frame?

Another vote for Pittsburgh here.
Also would say that having two of the best players in the game over the last 10-15 years (maybe 2 of the top 5 in that span) gives them a boost too. Outside of their team success they will be known for being the team that Sid and Geno were on together.

 

[MessierII]

Hawks for sure. They had to beat better teams to get there. 3 cups in 6 years is tight. If pens win again this year it changes the convo.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Until recently I would say the Pens were a huge disappointment after the league giftwarpped the Cup for them in 09. They should have had more success having both Crosby and Malkin but we're choke artists from 2010 until 2015.

3 cups in 6 years is more impressive than 3 in 8 with 2 of the best players in the league in your roster.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

So your rebuttal for that Tampa series that needed 7 is biased opinions? (terrible lawyer comment goes here) Ben Bishop's stats during the 2016 playoffs 1.86 GAA and a .939 sv% coupled with a 2.06 GAA and .926 sv% through the regular season. Vassy had a .910 sv% and 2.76 GAA in the regular season coupled by a .925 with a 2.76 GAA to say Vassy was better that year is just a pathetic attempt at propping your team up, also humerous seeing you write off Stamkos when he has been ppg in the playoffs this year some no show. Hawks didnt need game 7 OT against a team that didnt even make the playoffs the previous and following year either.

Hawks won 3 before Pit even got to #2 and did it without generational talents on top of play. Hawks needed less games in each of their respective cup runs (73 total for Pit from 09,16,17 and 68 total needed for Chicago)

more dominant in cup runs = Chicago
better championship teams in the cap era = chicago
better all time team from championship teams in the cap era = chicago.

Name one player who left Pit for the cap that is even on the same scale of Raanta, Byfuglien, Leddy, Campbell, Ladd

my rebuttal is the facts you chose to ignore like more finals appearances, more playoff wins and appearances

vasi replaced bishop who is now MIA, safe to say who the better goalie is

and who the hell cares who left the pens? now you are penalizing the pens because the hawks don't know how to manage the cap, but the pens lost hossa, iginla, and james neal who is better than any of the players you mentioned, not that it matters

and yes you would be a bad lawyer, I present facts you present opinions and irrelevant details

and to make matters even worse for your hawks, their run is clearly over while the pens will still be contenders for years to come which only adds to their superior post lockout legacy

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Hawks for sure. They had to beat better teams to get there. 3 cups in 6 years is tight. If pens win again this year it changes the convo.

better teams how? again with opinions instead of facts

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Until recently I would say the Pens were a huge disappointment after the league giftwarpped the Cup for them in 09. They should have had more success having both Crosby and Malkin but we're choke artists from 2010 until 2015.

3 cups in 6 years is more impressive than 3 in 8 with 2 of the best players in the league in your roster.

how was it gift wrapped in 09?

the hawks manipulated the cap and are now paying the price for it

hawks choked the last 3 years, number 1 seed swept in the 1st round by team the pens steamrolled, even missed the playoffs this year which the pens haven't done in 12 years LOL

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Of the three possible Cup caliber teams, the Hawks played two of them and beat them both once. Pitt has beaten no one of note.

Washington x2 and Detroit were better than anyone the Blackhawks beat during their 3 cup runs.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Chicago as of right now, no homer.

3 Cup in 6 years > 3 Cups in 9 years

Everything else is ancillary. Granted, the caveat is easily open for the Penguins to surpass the Hawks if they win a fourth Cup in this era.

But still, 1 and 2 or 1A and 1B, it's clearly these two teams as the franchises of the era.

Since the OP asked who was the better franchise post-lockout, over what span a team won their cups means literally nothing. And in those 13 seasons, Chicago has only earned a playoff spot 8 times.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-All I have to say is, the blackhawks future is so dark there isnt 1 ray of light at the end of a very, very, very long and dark tunnel. Have fun in the basement in last place, Hawks, because you are going to be there for a very long time

 

[ColbyChaos]

my rebuttal is the facts you chose to ignore like more finals appearances, more playoff wins and appearances

vasi replaced bishop who is now MIA, safe to say who the better goalie is

and who the hell cares who left the pens? now you are penalizing the pens because the hawks don't know how to manage the cap, but the pens lost hossa, iginla, and james neal who is better than any of the players you mentioned, not that it matters

and yes you would be a bad lawyer, I present facts you present opinions and irrelevant details

and to make matters even worse for your hawks, their run is clearly over while the pens will still be contenders for years to come which only adds to their superior post lockout legacy

You dont get extra points for losing in the 2nd round sorry no one remembers teams eliminated in the opening rounds. Needing less games to win means you were a better team simple as that. Bishop was the better goalie in 2016 Vassy being better now is an irellavant argument you are trying to make. You dont present facts at all Bishop > Vassy in 2016 twisting it into how they are now when we are talking about 2016 and 2016 only is simply you moving the goal posts. (bad lawyer comment goes here)

Neal was traded, Iginla was a rental, as was Hossa (who had no intention of staying) all three of those players were never even a part of a title while Buff, Ladd, Leddy, etc all had to leave due to the cap and needed raises those 3 either never intended to stay in Pit or they were rentals. All 3 ended up becoming top line players when they left and to say Neal and Iginla are better at that point in their careers is a laughable statement by itself thats 2 top pairing Dmen, and 1st line forward.

Pens window will end soon as well and more likely than not they will be mediocre to bad for a long time unless they are gifted a ludicrous amount of top talent in the draft lottery (again)

3 straight deep runs> 2 straight deeps runs and a 2nd round exit
68 Games needed for 3 cups > 73 needed for 3 cups

Pens werent as dominant those cup runs and their 16 team is the only team that wouldnt be bounced in 5 or less games against Chicagos and La's teams.

 

[Clatartar]

Until recently I would say the Pens were a huge disappointment after the league giftwarpped the Cup for them in 09. They should have had more success having both Crosby and Malkin but we're choke artists from 2010 until 2015.

3 cups in 6 years is more impressive than 3 in 8 with 2 of the best players in the league in your roster.

Hawks have 2 current players in the top 100...
Pens have 1

 

[Section88]

They were both great. Obviously im biased so i say chicago. Cant we appreciate both without shitting on one or the other? Lol

 

[Section88]

how was it gift wrapped in 09?

the hawks manipulated the cap and are now paying the price for it

hawks choked the last 3 years, number 1 seed swept in the 1st round by team the pens steamrolled, even missed the playoffs this year which the pens haven't done in 12 years LOL

are you aware of Crosbys contract? Pot meet kettle

 

[BigEezyE22]

Chicago hasn't played in a playoff game since 2016.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

are you aware of Crosbys contract? Pot meet kettle

Call me when his contract ends in his mid-40s. Sid will actually finish his contract, unlike so many other absurdly long deals before the current CBA.

Obviously that contract wouldn't be legal under the current CBA, but there's still a big difference between a contract that takes a player into his mid/late 30s, than his mid 40s.

They were both great. Obviously im biased so i say chicago. Cant we appreciate both without ****ting on one or the other? Lol

But this is a stance I can agree with, from the other side of the aisle.

Ultimately this has been an extremely positive decade for fans of both teams. I'm not too worried about superlatives when there's concrete evidence of success.

 

[Sarava]

Both teams won 3 Cups with their current *cores*. I guess the Pens might get a slight advantage due to the extra SCF appearance and maybe the repeat. But as a Hawks fan, I wouldn't trade the Hawks run for anything. So if the Hawks finish second here, it's a pretty awesome second place.

 

[613Leafer]

Pittsburgh. An extra finals appearance and they still appear to have a chance to win over the next few years, whereas Chicago doesn't barring some unexpected positive developments.

In saying that, while both teams benefited from high picks, Pittsburgh got Crosby and Malkin. Not through good scouting, development, or anything like that, just luck of the draw. They've had a huge huge advantage over every other franchise in the league based purely on luck of the draw.

In a vacuum, Pittsburgh has been the better team overall, but I think Chicago's with some context is more impressive. They lucked into some good high picks too, but still had to be better at building a team around Toews/Kane than Pittsburgh has had to do around Crosby/Malkin.

 

[Voight]

Funny seeing people count Chicagos missed playoffs prior to 2009.... PIT had Sid/Geno start earlier than Toews/Kane.... obviously they are going to make the playoffs before them and as a result, have more playoff appearances post lockout.

2007-2008 was Toews & Kanes rookie year. Who was supposed to lead them to the playoffs before then? Marty Lapointe??

 

[FlyTimmo]

3 in 6 vs. 3 in 9.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Funny seeing people count Chicagos missed playoffs prior to 2009.... PIT had Sid/Geno start earlier than Toews/Kane.... obviously they are going to make the playoffs before them and as a result, have more playoff appearances post lockout.

2007-2008 was Toews & Kanes rookie year. Who was supposed to lead them to the playoffs before then? Marty Lapointe??

2007-08 was also Geno's rookie year...

edit: Coffee before posting, Big. 2006-07 feels like severel lifetimes ago.