Chicago @ Ottawa | Hossa comes home for 1000

[Langdon Alger]

If only we had kept Hossa. We probably would have had Hossa and Chara long term.

Imagine if you can in 2007......

Spezza-Alfredsson
Fisher-Hossa

Chara-Redden
Phillips-Corvo

So we would have had 2 lines with 2 forwards on them instead of 3 and 4 dmen instead of 6? Those guys would be exhausted

 

[Sensinitis]

Hossa instead of Comrie. What a difference.

 

[Micklebot]

To be fair, the Heatley-Hossa deal saved us something like $4 million off of the cap given that Heatley was cheaper and we threw deVries in the deal. That was back when we were a cap team, so that was significant.

I already pointed out that a hockey case could be made for that deal (looking back it seems to have been in the main board thread on hossa's 1000th point), but my disappointment stems more for the rational of making that deal than the quality of the deal. We had a known commodity, that gelled with the team. Heatley was not in a good place and was a wild card after a major accident which hurt his knee, and caused the passing of a close friend.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Havlat spezza Alfie
Hossa kopitar and I really don't care
Fisher
Kelly.
Chara still on the backend.

Cups cups cups.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Havlat spezza Alfie
Hossa kopitar and I really don't care
Fisher
Kelly.
Chara still on the backend.

Cups cups cups.

Haha I like this.

 

[Xspyrit]

Sens didn't win the game so I guess it's time for non-founded complaints. I'll try to play the advocate the other way I guess... since it's not so unpopular and fun

Turris almost scored. The puck almost went through, and people who says it was a weak attempt would be singing his praises if he scored. Breaking news : goalies at this level and that big (6'6, 232 lbs, hello?) are kinda hard to beat. Not much space.

Chiasson could have scored as well, but the goalie read his shot very well, which is what a goalie has to do to be successful. He didn't fool the goalie, who made it look easy but it was a solid save with the glove.

Ryan's attempt was the most underwhelming, lacking velocity on his shot and not close enough, but it wasn't Stamkos bad.

Overall, it was far from the best execution but you won't see players make their best move everytime, this isn't a fantasy world. Let's complain when the Sens are under 0.500 (crapshoot) in the SO which hasn't happened in years.

Everytime there's a shootout reading the GDT would make you think the Sens are Devils bad, but the reality is :

2014-15 : 1-1
2013-14 : 7-7
2012-13 : 4-4
2011-12 : 6-4
2010-11 : 2-5
2009-10 : 5-5
2005-09 : 11-23 (when the line-up was more talented and heavily more experimented)

Reality is that the Sens are 1 game under 0.500 the last 6 seasons In SO, and 2 games over 0.500 since the "rebuild" in 2011-12... I don't understand why reality is so unpopular.

Get Legwand off the PP. He can't do anything useful other than pass it back to Karlsson.

Ya outside of scoring and preparing goals on a silver platter? lol what's wrong exactly with Legwand on the PP? Because he keeps possession? Because he doesn't shoot? He is a playmaker, not a shooter. lol he actually reminds me a bit of Alfie, veteran slowing down the play to open up options and keep possession.

That being said, PP was 1 on 6 last night, the puck movement and the way they kept possession was excellent but they couldn't find holes for enough dangerous shots and prime scoring areas. Credit to the Hawks PK.

he was pretty solid, except for the hossa goal

I'll defend Andy when people are going to stupid on him but he was bad in the first period as well. Could have prevented any of the first 2 goals. Definitely not his best game, but all good goalies have so-so games.

Andy and Karlsson's play in the first half cost a point. Best players have to be your best players to win in the NHL, particularly against the Blackhawks of all teams.

Wonder why we don't see Karlsson more than that in the SO he is good.

Not bad, but "good" I'm not sure, he is 2 for 6 career-wise

http://www.nhl.com/ice/shootoutstat...otingPctg&viewName=shootoutSkaterCareerTotals

Every SO, Turris and Zibanejad should have an attempt, followed by any of Legwand, Michalek, Ryan and Chiasson, and ya Karlsson too.

ACTUAL RESULTS are there for people to see.

Isn't that what Turris tried? Maybe a lame attempt, but still.

Didn't see a "lame attempt", it almost worked but goalie is freaking huge, like Bishop huge.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I wouldn't rip on Turris for his shot. He tried to score, didn't.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

wrong thread

 

[Karlsson2Turris*]

Turris is due for a goal, hasn't scored since the first game of the season even though he's played really well.

 

[Hossa18]

I already pointed out that a hockey case could be made for that deal (looking back it seems to have been in the main board thread on hossa's 1000th point), but my disappointment stems more for the rational of making that deal than the quality of the deal. We had a known commodity, that gelled with the team. Heatley was not in a good place and was a wild card after a major accident which hurt his knee, and caused the passing of a close friend.

I never bought that excuse because Ottawa finished that year about 2 mil under the cap and not to mention that Heatley was making more then Hossa on his next contract that he signed.

 

[Micklebot]

I never bought that excuse because Ottawa finished that year about 2 mil under the cap and not to mention that Heatley was making more then Hossa on his next contract that he signed.

We got 3 years of Heatley making 4.5 instead of Hossa making 6 saving a cash strapped team 4.5 mil over that period. He made more than Hossa on his next contract because he scored 50 goals twice and earned a huge contract (which was arguably a very team friendly one at the time).

The team had to look past just one year, because Havlat was up for renewal, as was Chara and Redden, all the next season in 06/07. While it's too bad Muckler managed to make the wrong move in all cases (hindsight is 20/20), the Heatley move was a good example of looking to the future and trying to plan ahead.

We were very fortunate that Alfredsson was on such a team friendly deal; he's never had a cap hit about 5 mil despite being a fringe HOF candidate (thank you 24% rollback).

 

[Sensinitis]

The Heatley trade was a shrewd hockey deal, and a good one.

It's too bad Heatley was a princess and suffered such a steep decline, but those things weren't very predictable.

 

[Micklebot]

The Heatley trade was a shrewd hockey deal, and a good one.

It's too bad Heatley was a princess and suffered such a steep decline, but those things weren't very predictable.

I thought it was a bit of a lateral move from a value perspective, and we took on a fair bit of risk given Heatley had just had the car accident. At first it worked out quite well for both teams, but as you say, injuries and being a princess kicked in and here we are.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

The Heatley trade was a shrewd hockey deal, and a good one.

It's too bad Heatley was a princess and suffered such a steep decline, but those things weren't very predictable.

Does anyone know why he demanded a trade? I never found a clear answer besides maybe a dislike for Clouston and less pp time

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The Heatley trade was a shrewd hockey deal, and a good one.

It's too bad Heatley was a princess and suffered such a steep decline, but those things weren't very predictable.

No lol. It wasn't. Hossa has 100 points on the Atlanta thrashers. And I believe 92 the year before. Probably gets an extra five on an elite Ottawa team. Not to mention his two way game would have made a much more positive impact in the playoffs.
Heatley the better scorer. Hossa the better hockey player.

So : traded (Ina. Very under minded fashion) a 100 point two way winger (does anyone get how rare that is) who's best friend was our best defencman. And on the verge if becoming one of the best on the NHL for. A one way sniper who was and elite sniper I admit. But a known problem child.

Hossa also loved by his teammates. I bet the guys weren't too happy about that.

It was a terrible deal. Not in hindsight.

And it's not as if people didn't think Hossa could live up to 6 a year. Anyone could see he was about to become one of the best. The deal was plain stupid. Muckler just couldn't think. But in surprised an assistant didn't say "umm chara is gonna be pissed john"
But then again seems like no one had the chops to tell him staal and kopitar were better than lee. Except for Murray apparently who stated that he wanted staal

But here's what I don't get. Muckler felt the need to take lee cuz he needed a puck mover to replace redden. But then he signed redden long term instead of chara. (Chara wouldn't have stayed regardless. But still. Wtf?)

 

[Sensinitis]

I never agree with you bianco, so I won't refute.

I don't think you know what shrewd means though.

 

[Micklebot]

No lol. It wasn't. Hossa has 100 points on the Atlanta thrashers. And I believe 92 the year before. Probably gets an extra five on an elite Ottawa team. Not to mention his two way game would have made a much more positive impact in the playoffs.
Heatley the better scorer. Hossa the better hockey player.

The problem was that Hossa and Alfie were both RW. Heatley came in and we had the Pizza line, that wouldn't have happened with Hossa. Heatley was 2 years younger, and on a cheaper contract. There was a lot of positive reasons to like that trade.

I'm also not sure he gets any extra points in Ottawa, he did have Kovalchuk and Savard to play with the first year. That's a damn good line that scored a mere 3 less goals than the pizza line in 05/06.

I wasn't a fan of the trade, but in no way was it a bad one.

edit: It should also be noted, we didn't trade a 100 pts player, we traded an 82 pts player that became a 100 pts player, big difference.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I never agree with you bianco, so I won't refute.

I don't think you know what shrewd means though.

It's biancosaurus to you boy.

I'm well aware of the term. Is often used in soccer. Which I watch too much of. I said it was a bad deal then. And I have the same opinion now. Only one of is right.

And how can you say "well it was shrewd at the time, until you know, everything played out " cuz well that means that it wasn't really all that great.

I trade a hockey card worth 100 for another also worth 100. For two years my new card (heatley) increases to 110. Yes. Great deal. But then that card takes a nose dive , while the other stays at 100. Sorry. But I got screwd. Crappy deal. Hindsight or no hindsight. It was a bad deal.
For two years

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The problem was that Hossa and Alfie were both RW. Heatley came in and we had the Pizza line, that wouldn't have happened with Hossa. Heatley was 2 years younger, and on a cheaper contract. There was a lot of positive reasons to like that trade.

I'm also not sure he gets any extra points in Ottawa, he did have Kovalchuk and Savard to play with the first year. That's a damn good line that scored a mere 3 less goals than the pizza line in 05/06.

I wasn't a fan of the trade, but in no way was it a bad one.

Him and kovalchuk did not play on the same line if I remember correctly. Kovalchuck always had the top center. Hossa had the second line.
I know this because I got center ice for the sole purpose of watching him play and I could never understand why they didn't just play Hossa and kovalchuk together.

Kovalchuk always had savard or kozlov.
While Hossa would get Todd white (love him)

 

[Micklebot]

Him and kovalchuk did not play on the same line if I remember correctly. Kovalchuck always had the top center. Hossa had the second line.

They all played on the PP together. Savard was in on 32 of his 92 pts in 05/06, and looking at the scoring log, it seems Hossa moved to the 2nd line half way through the season. And for what it's worth, in Ottawa he likely would have had the same fate. Spezza would likely have been with Alfie, and Hossa on the second line with Smolinsky or Fisher.

The move was fine at the time, don't let Heatley's douchery and regression cloud your judgement. The Pizza line was literally the best line in hockey at the time and one of the best lines in a long time for those 2 seasons after the trade. There is zero guarantee Hossa would have found that level of chemistry had he stayed and no way of knowing how heatley would slow down in the years after that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The problem was that Hossa and Alfie were both RW. Heatley came in and we had the Pizza line, that wouldn't have happened with Hossa. Heatley was 2 years younger, and on a cheaper contract. There was a lot of positive reasons to like that trade.

I'm also not sure he gets any extra points in Ottawa, he did have Kovalchuk and Savard to play with the first year. That's a damn good line that scored a mere 3 less goals than the pizza line in 05/06.

I wasn't a fan of the trade, but in no way was it a bad one.

edit: It should also be noted, we didn't trade a 100 pts player, we traded an 82 pts player that became a 100 pts player, big difference.

Mm okay. Heatley was under a point per game in his last season for Atlanta. Granted he was back from injury. But we had the foresight to see that he would be better than that. Did anyone here think Hossa wasn't improving? Especially in the new NHL where his big dram and speed would pretty much allow him to do whatever he wanted on the ice. Whatever. It's done.
Like I said. I had this exact same opinion then. And I still have it. Pretty hard to say I'm wrong when I was and am, right. This is a place for opinion but the situation is done, it happened. One side was right the other was wrong.

And this is Sens HF. 82 points two way player or 105 point on way lazy player.

 

[Micklebot]

Him and kovalchuk did not play on the same line if I remember correctly. Kovalchuck always had the top center. Hossa had the second line.
I know this because I got center ice for the sole purpose of watching him play and I could never understand why they didn't just play Hossa and kovalchuk together.

Kovalchuk always had savard or kozlov.
While Hossa would get Todd white (love him)

White didn't play for Atlanta until the year Hossa was traded to Pittsburgh.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They all played on the PP together. Savard was in on 32 of his 92 pts in 05/06, and looking at the scoring log, it seems Hossa moved to the 2nd line half way through the season. And for what it's worth, in Ottawa he likely would have had the same fate. Spezza would likely have been with Alfie, and Hossa on the second line with Smolinsky or Fisher.

The move was fine at the time, don't let Heatley's douchery and regression cloud your judgement. The Pizza line was literally the best line in hockey at the time and one of the best lines in a long time for those 2 seasons after the trade. There is zero guarantee Hossa would have found that level of chemistry had he stayed and no way of knowing how heatley would slow down in the years after that.

Okay. So half of his 92 points let's say came on the second line. And then the 100 point season came from the second line.

And no. I have the dream where Hossa played with kopitar. And still is.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

White didn't play for Atlanta until the year Hossa was traded to Pittsburgh.

Hossa was traded that deadline yes.
60 games for Atlanta. Point is it's not like Hossa was riding on kovalchuk for all his points.
It may have been savard centering kovalchuk.
And kozlov centering Hossa.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Argument is pointless. Some believe the trade was good. Some believe it wasn't.
I just don't think saying "well it was good at the time" is a good point. Hindsight is how deals are measured.
Of it was as simple as Hossa and heatley okay I see it brought us immediate success kinda (although I think Hossa brings us the same success) but I truly believe it costed us chara as well.