News Article: Chicago Blackhawks: Stan Bowman's 7 Worst Trades as GM

[Hawkaholic]

43% to 39%?

The numbers are very even.

Every number (but 1) favours Hjalmarsson, he is better defensively. That's all I said.

 

[BK]

Not really, it favours Hammer pretty well. Especially considering he starts in the D zone more often.

Pretty well implies an obvious margin but that is not the case.

Every number (but 1) favours Hjalmarsson, he is better defensively. That's all I said.

Not everything. Murphy has a better Corsi but like I said their numbers are all very close.

Side note: Why did you only include 2 of the 3 seasons?

	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	CF%	FF%	SF%	xGF%	SCF%	HDCF%	Off. Zone Start %
CM	175	2843.4	16.2	51.3	50.8	50.7	49.1	49.8	45.8	42.3
NH	149	2431.2	16.3	48.6	49.6	49.6	51.0	50.4	49.7	34.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hawkaholic]

Pretty well implies an obvious margin but that is not the case.



Not everything. Murphy has a better Corsi but like I said their numbers are all very close.

Pretty well is all categories but 1. 4% in some is not a small number over 2yrs. Some are close, but Hammers are better.

 

[Panzerspitze]

Add these to the mix and Hammer trade trumps the Rundblad in top 7

Hammer trade
Sharp trade
Not bringing back Oduya once up
Timmonen

I am sure I am forgetting a bunch

Buff
Ladd
Leddy

 

[Rick C137]

Tbh I think the fact that it’s even this close is a win for the Blackhawks. Murphy is considerably younger, doesn’t have anywhere near the mileage, and makes less money. The Blackhawks weren’t competing these past few years with Hjalmarsson anyway so it was a good move for the longer term health of the team. I was a big Hjalmarsson guy too.

 

[BK]

Pretty well is all categories but 1. 4% in some is not a small number over 2yrs. Some are close, but Hammers are better.

If you do their number since the trade and not skip the first season Murphy's look a bit better.

HDCF% is the big gap but how much of that is Murphy and how much of it is linemates.

	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	CF%	FF%	SF%	xGF%	SCF%	HDCF%	Off. Zone Start %
CM	175	2843.4	16.2	51.3	50.8	50.7	49.1	49.8	45.8	42.3
NH	149	2431.2	16.3	48.6	49.6	49.6	51.0	50.4	49.7	34.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Offensively it is a meh comparison as Murphy is a .25 ppg player and Hammer is a .15 player. Neither is a special offensive player.

 

[Blackhawks26]

Just don’t understand how people can be so upset about the panarin trade.

there was no way we could keep him. The guy is a top 5 player in the league.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Tbh I think the fact that it’s even this close is a win for the Blackhawks. Murphy is considerably younger, doesn’t have anywhere near the mileage, and makes less money. The Blackhawks weren’t competing these past few years with Hjalmarsson anyway so it was a good move for the longer term health of the team. I was a big Hjalmarsson guy too.

Yeah, it's turned out not bad, but I feel like Hjalmarsson would be doing better here than he is in Arizona, as he would have that chemistry with Keith in a shut down pair. Hjalmarsson also may have take na bigger discount to stay here than he did in Arizona, but you can't complain too much about the trade over all. There are much worse trades he has made, Hammer one just sucks because it was Hammer, and Murphy isn't the warrior he was.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Just don’t understand how people can be so upset about the panarin trade.

there was no way we could keep him. The guy is a top 5 player in the league.

It's easy, they could have got a lot more than Saad for him.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If you do their number since the trade and not skip the first season Murphy's look a bit better.

HDCF% is the big gap but how much of that is Murphy and how much of it is linemates.

	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	CF%	FF%	SF%	xGF%	SCF%	HDCF%	Off. Zone Start %
CM	175	2843.4	16.2	51.3	50.8	50.7	49.1	49.8	45.8	42.3
NH	149	2431.2	16.3	48.6	49.6	49.6	51.0	50.4	49.7	34.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Offensively it is a meh comparison as Murphy is a .25 ppg player and Hammer is a .15 player. Neither is a special offensive player.

Yeah, I left out the 1st year because Q didn't treat him fairly and didn't use him in the same role he would have used Hjalmarsson. He was more sheltered that year, whereas Hammer would have been our shut down guy.

 

[BK]

Yeah, I left out the 1st year because Q didn't treat him fairly and didn't use him in the same role he would have used Hjalmarsson. He was more sheltered that year, whereas Hammer would have been our shut down guy.

Ah ok.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Aren’t Murphy’s numbers skewed by playing on last year’s awful Hawks team with Delia and Ward?

Arizona is 4th best in GAA right now and 6th last year. Combining this season and now last season the Hawks are giving up more shots against per game than any other team. AZ is 16th.

Neither Murphy nor Hammer are THE crucial factor in their respective team’s stats. I think it’s a weird comparison when you compare a team who is clearly more defense-oriented to the Hawks who aren’t oriented in anything, let alone defense.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Aren’t Murphy’s numbers skewed by playing on last year’s awful Hawks team with Delia and Ward?

Arizona is 4th best in GAA right now and 6th last year. Combining this season and now last season the Hawks are giving up more shots against per game than any other team. AZ is 16th.

Neither Murphy nor Hammer are THE crucial factor in their respective team’s stats. I think it’s a weird comparison when you compare a team who is clearly more defense-oriented to the Hawks who aren’t oriented in anything, let alone defense.

You could argue they are better partly because of having Hammer, and Hawks are worse off with Murphy though. These stats have nothing to do with goalies.

 

[BK]

The Hawks are not worse off with Murphy. Hammer and Murphy are roughly the same player impact wise with Murphy having a 3.85 AAV and Hammer having a 5.0 AAV cap hit.

 

[LordKOTL]

What do you guys think of the Saad-Panarin trade in retrospect? Should we have just kept Panarin? I doubt he'd sign for an $11.6 AAV if he stayed here. Easily would've cost $9-$10m AAV though

I don't know how I feel about it:

In the short-term of Panarin's initial 6M--we lost. Saad wasn't that good offensively or defensibly in my opinion--certainly not 6M worth and I was under the understanding that the main hope of the trade was sparkplugging Toews...which did not happen. Panarin's O would have been a nice shot in the arm for the team within that timeframe.

Longer term I don't think we would have been able to keep Panarin cap-wise, and Saad has gotten better, Toews had a decent year last year, and the 'hawks had O but still no D whatsoever, so - Saad + Panarin might have still been not enough to put the 'hawks over the hump. Further, assuming we couldn't afford Panarin, does what we get out of losing him (via trade or just simply freeing up the cap from his 6M) be equal to or better than What Saad has brought the past couple of seasons? That I don't know, but given the outcome of most of the current offseason acquisitions vs. actual output I'm not getting the warm, fuzzy vive that it would have came out much better if we kept Panarin, lost him, and used the Cap and/or incoming assets/prospects to fill the void better than Saad.

 

[LordKOTL]

Tbh I think the fact that it’s even this close is a win for the Blackhawks. Murphy is considerably younger, doesn’t have anywhere near the mileage, and makes less money. The Blackhawks weren’t competing these past few years with Hjalmarsson anyway so it was a good move for the longer term health of the team. I was a big Hjalmarsson guy too.

Basically my stance on it.

During the timeframe of when we have had Murph and when AZ has had Hjalmarsson, I think Murph was the better option--and Hjammer is one of my favorite players.

Now, if we're talking age to age comparison, no contest for Hjammer. Murph turns 27 this year. Compare the 2020 Murph to the 2014 Hjammer. I think that's part of the cognitive dissonance of the argument.

 

[Blackhawks]

It's easy, they could have got a lot more than Saad for him.

Just don’t understand how people can be so upset about the panarin trade.

there was no way we could keep him. The guy is a top 5 player in the league.

MUCH better return, or how about the simple fact that we could have watched the Panarin/Kane combo for two more years which means incredible hockey and a high possibility of playoffs those years... How can you not be mad about that? If Stan didn’t wet the bed and trade Saad in the first place for AA none of that woulda happened, many many mistakes made.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The Hawks are not worse off with Murphy. Hammer and Murphy are roughly the same player impact wise with Murphy having a 3.85 AAV and Hammer having a 5.0 AAV cap hit.

Completely debatable. I think Hawks would be better with Hammer.

 

[Hawkaholic]

MUCH better return, or how about the simple fact that we could have watched the Panarin/Kane combo for two more years which means incredible hockey and a high possibility of playoffs those years... How can you not be mad about that? If Stan didn’t wet the bed and trade Saad in the first place for AA none of that woulda happened, many many mistakes made.

Panarin was not the difference between making the playoffs and not. And even if he did, it would be a one and done thing, with worse draft picks. Trading Saad was also the right move (you can debate the return all you want) but Saad wasn't worth 6mil at that point.

 

[Blackhawks]

Panarin was not the difference between making the playoffs and not. And even if he did, it would be a one and done thing, with worse draft picks. Trading Saad was also the right move (you can debate the return all you want) but Saad wasn't worth 6mil at that point.

More Stan cheer leading

 

[Hawkaholic]

More Stan cheer leading

Riiiiight. It's called being realistic, has nothing to do with Stan.

I didn't want Saad signed for anything more than 5mil back then, you can go and look all you want.
We had Panarin and Kane and never made it past the 1st round.

 

[BK]

Completely debatable. I think Hawks would be better with Hammer.

Agree to disagree?

 

[Blackhawks]

Riiiiight. It's called being realistic, has nothing to do with Stan.

I didn't want Saad signed for anything more than 5mil back then, you can go and look all you want.
We had Panarin and Kane and never made it past the 1st round.

Ya but we made it lmaoooo

And we woulda made it again and again

And had we had TT and Danault and Saad we would not have only made it but made it deep, you wanna talk realistic? That’s realistic and you not wanting to pay Saad more than 5 just shows how much you knew back then and now

 

[Hawkaholic]

Ya but we made it lmaoooo

And we woulda made it again and again

And had we had TT and Danault and Saad we would not have only made it but made it deep, you wanna talk realistic? That’s realistic and you not wanting to pay Saad more than 5 just shows how much you knew back then...

Who cares if we just make it? It's not worth it to make it and lose 1st round jsut to get a worse draft pick.

Am I defending all those other moves Bowman made? But even still, please tell me how you magically make the cap work with all those players the last 2 years. I'll wait.

And Saad wasn't worth 6mil to us, back then.

 

[Geoist]

Murphy has been as good or better than Hammer since the trade...

I love Hammer as much as anyone else, but yeah, this.