Speculation: Chiarelli compensation

[GloryDaze4877]

How reliable is that Dom? Can our scounts really be so leaky as to have that info floating around publicly before the draft? Seems like it would weaken our chances at the draft.

And I agree, major bummer if true.

Hopefully, this is not the case.

I often take this stuff with a grain of salt this time of year because of the misinformation teams put out. Just go back a couple of years, nobody thought Subban was on the B's radar.

Hope they just take the guy they think is the BPA.

 

[DominicT]

How reliable is that Dom? Can our scounts really be so leaky as to have that info floating around publicly before the draft? Seems like it would weaken our chances at the draft.

And I agree, major bummer if true.

Hopefully, this is not the case.

I often take this stuff with a grain of salt this time of year because of the misinformation teams put out. Just go back a couple of years, nobody thought Subban was on the B's radar.

Hope they just take the guy they think is the BPA.

Problem is, what OHL scout do they have to make the case for drafting Konecny?

Sweeney was obviously more busy with Providence to do the scouting he always did. Bradley took on the AGM duties and spent less time on the road. The most influential guys - Gretzky toured everywhere and there are multiple players he's seen more often then Konecny - Axelsson sticks with Europe.

The only scout they have in the CHL to make a case for players coming from there is in the Q. Although I think Axelsson knows Rasmus Andersson from his days in Sweden so he may be an OHL option in round 2 or 3 if he falls to the third. Or maybe a Zach Senyshyn in the second. Other than that, I'm not expecting much from the OHL from the Bruins.

Oh and BTW - if we recall, I was big on Subban - even to the Bruins - during his draft year. So much so I named him draft eligible player of the year from the OHL.

 

[Era of Sanity]

They fired a few scouts in addition to Chiarelli, sounds like they are understaffed at the moment, hopefully they will hire more (good) scouts.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Problem is, what OHL scout do they have to make the case for drafting Konecny?

Sweeney was obviously more busy with Providence to do the scouting he always did. Bradley took on the AGM duties and spent less time on the road. The most influential guys - Gretzky toured everywhere and there are multiple players he's seen more often then Konecny - Axelsson sticks with Europe.

The only scout they have in the CHL to make a case for players coming from there is in the Q. Although I think Axelsson knows Rasmus Andersson from his days in Sweden so he may be an OHL option in round 2 or 3 if he falls to the third. Or maybe a Zach Senyshyn in the second. Other than that, I'm not expecting much from the OHL from the Bruins.

Oh and BTW - if we recall, I was big on Subban - even to the Bruins - during his draft year. So much so I named him draft eligible player of the year from the OHL.

I get your point about the OHL being underrepresented on the B's staff this year.

As far as Subban goes, I don't recall how you felt about Subban, but I would say that generally speaking, people covering the B's were somewhat surprised by his choice.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Problem is, what OHL scout do they have to make the case for drafting Konecny?

Sweeney was obviously more busy with Providence to do the scouting he always did. Bradley took on the AGM duties and spent less time on the road. The most influential guys - Gretzky toured everywhere and there are multiple players he's seen more often then Konecny - Axelsson sticks with Europe.

The only scout they have in the CHL to make a case for players coming from there is in the Q. Although I think Axelsson knows Rasmus Andersson from his days in Sweden so he may be an OHL option in round 2 or 3 if he falls to the third. Or maybe a Zach Senyshyn in the second. Other than that, I'm not expecting much from the OHL from the Bruins.

Oh and BTW - if we recall, I was big on Subban - even to the Bruins - during his draft year. So much so I named him draft eligible player of the year from the OHL.

With all due respect, I feel it hard to believe the Bruins weren't actively scouting the OHL, with this being the most talked about draft in yrs as far as riches (since 03) and many of them from the Ohl including the likes of, McDavid, Marner, Strome, Crouse, Zacha, Dunn, Dermitt, Andersson and of course Konecny. Some serious talent there for a professional organization to overlook. Not buying it.

 

[LouJersey]

With all due respect, I feel it hard to believe the Bruins weren't actively scouting the OHL, with this being the most talked about draft in yrs as far as riches (since 03) and many of them from the Ohl including the likes of, McDavid, Marner, Strome, Crouse, Zacha, Dunn, Dermitt, Andersson and of course Konecny. Some serious talent there for a professional organization to overlook. Not buying it.

You do realize Dom is at dozens and dozens and dozens of OHL games per year and sees what scouts are there and those that aren't right ? You also know he talks to other scouts who I'm sure have said the Bruins lack eyes in the OHL right ?

Bruins have selected one relative from the OHL in the last round the past two drafts .

There is nothing not to buy . It's the truth

 

[DominicT]

With all due respect, I feel it hard to believe the Bruins weren't actively scouting the OHL, with this being the most talked about draft in yrs as far as riches (since 03) and many of them from the Ohl including the likes of, McDavid, Marner, Strome, Crouse, Zacha, Dunn, Dermitt, Andersson and of course Konecny. Some serious talent there for a professional organization to overlook. Not buying it.

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

You do realize Dom is at dozens and dozens and dozens of OHL games per year and sees what scouts are there and those that aren't right ? You also know he talks to other scouts who I'm sure have said the Bruins lack eyes in the OHL right ?

Bruins have selected one relative from the OHL in the last round the past two drafts .

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

No doubt Dom. You know whats going on but its still hard to believe the Bruins would make such a huge oversight in whats been the most talked about draft in yrs. Here's hoping there's some 007 action going on. Perhaps you yourself........???

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

That's as surprising as it is sad.

 

[kman22]

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

I'm a little curious why they would let him leave (fire him) before the draft if they didn't have any of his knowledge. I don't doubt that the team's knowledge base took a hit when he left, but it seems like bad business to employee someone for the entire year, then fire him a month before you actually need the work.

 

[BB88]

No doubt Dom. You know whats going on but its still hard to believe the Bruins would make such a huge oversight in whats been the most talked about draft in yrs. Here's hoping there's some 007 action going on. Perhaps you yourself........???

We can only hope that the Bruins read our draft threads

But honestly I can't understand how they would let OHL unscouted, that sounds scary because there is a lot of talent this year.
We are risking of losing a great player for this, if Rantanen drops to us I won't be mad but if they choose something crazy because they don't know enough about these players then I am.

But our guys have to watch/read draft rankings and have some kind of idea of those right? So for example let's say Zacha who has been in the 8-12 range is available in our turn, they look at his size and remember reading his predictions could they say no to him?

Dom, please save us and tell them who to pick

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

We can only hope that the Bruins read our draft threads

But honestly I can't understand how they would let OHL unscouted, that sounds scary because there is a lot of talent this year.
We are risking of losing a great player for this, if Rantanen drops to us I won't be mad but if they choose something crazy because they don't know enough about these players then I am.

But our guys have to watch/read draft rankings and have some kind of idea of those right? So for example let's say Zacha who has been in the 8-12 range is available in our turn, they look at his size and remember reading his rankings could they say no to him?

Dom, please save us and tell them who to pick

Don't think their first round pick will be an issue.

Could be later in the draft, though.

 

[bob27]

Why did Edmonton accept to a 2nd round pick in the next three years? Even if they win the Stanley Cup their 2nd rounder will be more valuable than the highest possible 3rd rounder.

edit: Never mind, just found out that they had to give a 2nd round pick . Still, a bit weird that they can choose freely which year to give that pick.

 

[BB88]

Don't think their first round pick will be an issue.

Could be later in the draft, though.

If they pick a D player from the 20 range over someone like Zacha then it is a mistake, if they are set on fixing our D by drafting a D-player from the 1st round.

We won't get our hands on top D players but we can get a really good forward so I hope they know what they are doing this year.

I'm more worried about our 1st round pick than our 2nd. Hopefully we land D Andersson with our later pick.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

If they pick a D player from the 20 range over someone like Zacha then it is a mistake, if they are set on fixing our D by drafting a D-player from the 1st round.

We won't get our hands on top D players but we can get a really good forward so I hope they know what they are doing this year.

I'm more worried about our 1st round pick than our 2nd. Hopefully we land D Andersson with our later pick.

They probably already have a pretty good idea who will be available at 14 and who they would likely take. Not having the OHL info from their scout shouldn't affect that pick.

 

[What The Puck]

They probably already have a pretty good idea who will be available at 14 and who they would likely take. Not having the OHL info from their scout shouldn't affect that pick.

Doesn't make it any less inexcusable they are scouting the Finnish elite league over the OHL, if that is indeed the case.

 

[reffree]

Bruins were at the top prospect game and Konecny had a mvp game there. If they did like what he bring to the game they would have give him some more "showing".

 

[Montecristo]

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

could their lack of presence in the ohl have anything to do with the fact the ohl is overscouted? its not very common that a supremely talented OHL player slips through the cracks at the draft. A russian, czech, slovak, finn, or swede however..they do slip through the cracks. As players like Merkley, barzal, and konecny continue to rise at this time of year, players like rantanen will start to fall, for no reason other than familiarity. Its the old moneyball theory.

If everyone is scouting High school players, than their will be more college players to pick from. If everyone is scouting the CHL, then the Liiga will have a better pool to pick from during the draft.

It appears the bruins have started to adopt this philosophy and the early dividends appear promising. Pastrnak had an immediate impact, cehlarik looks like he could be a potential NHLer, currently playing well in the SHL. Blidh just signed his ELC after playing a rugged role in sweden. And arnesson has started to make the transition to the USA. czech, slovak and swede, all represented in the last 2 years of the draft. Heinen also might as well count as a foreigner as he played in the BCHL which is surely not scouted nearly as meticulously as the big 3 in canada.

Not sure if they will continue to be so euro heavy with sweeney as the GM, but would assume so as long as gretzky is at the helm. Wouldn't surprise me if they grabbed eriksson ek, from sweden in the 1st. Kind of an outside the box pick who some scouts have high, some have low. Something tells me if they board falls the way people think it might and sweeney is picking between konecny, merkley and zboril, he'll go with someone entirely different. eriksson ek seems to be one of those guys that, if he had played in the CHL would be getting top 10 consideration.

 

[Bmessy]

Fair enough.

The guy who scouted the OHL has been fired. All his info has gone with him.

FWIW when I go to a game, I sign-in in the exact same place NHL team members sign in. I know who's names I've seen.

Could all be moot. They could use RLR or Hcokeyprospect for their info on OHL players. The Bruins themselves have very, very little exposure to the OHL right now.

I find this interesting. So the team does not record any information the scouts gather?

We also fired our scout for the Q right? So we just fired half our Canadian Junior League staff before the deepest draft in awhile and can't get any info from the past couple years? I hope not.

We fired them mid April, hopefully we have info on the players up until then. It was playoffs by that point.

Im sure you know more but... if you're hired to provide info to a team, would said team record that info?

Now whether they cherish their WHL scouts more for that extra 2 months of playoffs where some players aren't even playing, sure.
Also, was Mike Chiarelli the OHL scout? Doesn't make me feel better... nepotism...

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I find this interesting. So the team does not record any information the scouts gather?

We also fired our scout for the Q right? So we just fired half our Canadian Junior League staff before the deepest draft in awhile and can't get any info from the past couple years? I hope not.

We fired them mid April, hopefully we have info on the players up until then. It was playoffs by that point.

Im sure you know more but... if you're hired to provide info to a team, would said team record that info?

Now whether they cherish their WHL scouts more for that extra 2 months of playoffs where some players aren't even playing, sure.
Also, was Mike Chiarelli the OHL scout? Doesn't make me feel better... nepotism...

Not to speak for Dom, but I believe he has said in the past that it's not about the information. That has obviously been passed along and recorded.

It's more about the idea that if the B's have three or four players they are considering at 14, one from Europe, one from the Dub, one from the Q, and one from the OHL....the OHL prospect is not going to have anyone in the room to "lobby" for him, whereas the other prospects will likely have a guy.

The B's seem to be heavily represented in the West (plus Bradley is a Western guy) and also have a couple of Euro scouts (not sure about the Q, and if Leblanc was there only guy or not?). It would stand to reason that those scouts are going to "push" their candidates.

I apologize in advance if this isn't what Dom meant when he discussed it a couple of weeks back. That's what I took away from it.

 

[Gee Wally]

Commissioner Gary Bettman no fan of compensation rule
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...-executives/iNodRBiMIDlW9A4DGmDqJM/story.html


“Pleased isn’t exactly the word I would use,†Bettman said about compensation before Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final. “Arising out of a series of disputes eight or nine years ago, I established a policy that there was no compensation. Personnel under contract, if you wanted to talk to them, the team that had the rights either said yes or no, and once they said yes, once a deal could be struck, that person was free to go.

“The managers, as a group, for years — probably two or three — cajoled, begged, pleaded, demanded that we make a change, and we wanted something that was straightforward and simple. We put into effect the new policy with the potential for compensation on Jan. 1, and we’ll let it run a full year before we consider doing anything. At that point in time, the options will be to clarify, to modify or to eliminate.â€

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Commissioner Gary Bettman no fan of compensation rule
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...-executives/iNodRBiMIDlW9A4DGmDqJM/story.html


“Pleased isn’t exactly the word I would use,†Bettman said about compensation before Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final. “Arising out of a series of disputes eight or nine years ago, I established a policy that there was no compensation. Personnel under contract, if you wanted to talk to them, the team that had the rights either said yes or no, and once they said yes, once a deal could be struck, that person was free to go.

“The managers, as a group, for years — probably two or three — cajoled, begged, pleaded, demanded that we make a change, and we wanted something that was straightforward and simple. We put into effect the new policy with the potential for compensation on Jan. 1, and we’ll let it run a full year before we consider doing anything. At that point in time, the options will be to clarify, to modify or to eliminate.â€

This "transaction" took place while the rule was in effect. Even if it's amended or eliminated after Jan 1st, EDM fans are high if they think they can get out of the compensation. The Oilers now "owe" the B's a second round pick. The only question is what year they give it to them.

 

[Montecristo]

This "transaction" took place while the rule was in effect. Even if it's amended or eliminated after Jan 1st, EDM fans are high if they think they can get out of the compensation. The Oilers now "owe" the B's a second round pick. The only question is what year they give it to them.

what they would say (and its not apples to apples) is that NJ "owed" the NHL a 1st round pick and then the NHL decided they were wrong to have asked in the 1st place. I often wonder what would have happened if NJ had given up their 1st prior to the decision to overturn the original ruling. would they have been given a compensatory 1st rounder the next year?

like i said, it isn't apples to apples, but rules have been changed that are similar to this one currently being spotlighted, and penalties have been retroactively forgiven.

I wouldn't be mad either, because as far as im concerned, chiarelli was fired. he was fired and he was hired again. technically he had just been "relieved of his duties" but for all intents and purposes, he was fired. Had the oilers not hired him, chiarelli would not have a job with boston going forward. He was within well within his rights to find employment elsewhere and he shouldn't be penalized for getting a new job. the bruins ownership should be thanking edmonton because now boston doesn't have to compensate chiarelli as they would have if he had not been given a job by edmonton. so now not only is boston free of paying peter, they are making peter pay them.

its not a fair rule, it will be changed. will the bruins still get the pick, I would say probably, yes. But for me, I can't say id be surprised if the penalties assessed are retroactively forgiven. and again, i wouldn't be upset either, because i don't think the bruins deserve a pick for firing their GM

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

This "transaction" took place while the rule was in effect. Even if it's amended or eliminated after Jan 1st, EDM fans are high if they think they can get out of the compensation. The Oilers now "owe" the B's a second round pick. The only question is what year they give it to them.

Exactly everyone knew the terms of the signing of PC going in. Its irrelevant if there was 30 managers or 2or 3 who were pushing for it the bottom line is it got passed through and is in effect. All teams are playing under the same rules, the Oil also new this when they signed their head coach.

 

[chizzler]

Problem is, what OHL scout do they have to make the case for drafting Konecny?

Sweeney was obviously more busy with Providence to do the scouting he always did. Bradley took on the AGM duties and spent less time on the road. The most influential guys - Gretzky toured everywhere and there are multiple players he's seen more often then Konecny - Axelsson sticks with Europe.

The only scout they have in the CHL to make a case for players coming from there is in the Q. Although I think Axelsson knows Rasmus Andersson from his days in Sweden so he may be an OHL option in round 2 or 3 if he falls to the third. Or maybe a Zach Senyshyn in the second. Other than that, I'm not expecting much from the OHL from the Bruins.

Oh and BTW - if we recall, I was big on Subban - even to the Bruins - during his draft year. So much so I named him draft eligible player of the year from the OHL.

I've always been pissed that the Bruins scouting was always weak in the past and continues. On top of it, the fire two guys that scout the OHL just before the draft. Seems like a dumb move to me. As a top team in this league, and a league that has the cap, I would think that they should have an abundance of scouts. If they can't spend over the cap, maybe they can throw money at scouting to try an get an edge that they so desperately need right now.