Chia Canned II: Chia's Gone But Why Does the Org Still Smell Like Ass?

rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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It was Stauffer. It's classic Oiler propaganda. And BS.

Or was trading Lupul+Smith for Pitkanen getting a plus plus? Or then turning around and trading Pitkanen for Erik Cole getting a plus plus?

Oilers fire the GM and all of a sudden he's downplaying the role of the OBC for the current state of things and trying to build up all the "good" they did in the past.

Kevin Lowe and Craig MacTavish were the masterminds behind orchestrating the longest playoff drought in NHL history. You literally do not get worse than that. The Oilers organization was literally the worst managed organization of all time before Chiarelli got here.

It's disgusting that this organization is now again trying to sweep any blame under the rug again.
If I remember correctly, most of those “plus, plus” deals were Lowe trading the best and most expensive players in the deal for quantity prospects making a lot less. He made some decent one for one deals early in his tenure before the cap and long before salaries for younger players exploded into the mess they are today. Aside from the deals Lowe made leading up to the Cup run (and you can put an asterisk beside all of them because teams were scrambling to get under the cap that one year only) I don’t recall much after the salary cap implementation that didn’t end up not hurting the team.

Seems to be some selective recollection if not revisionist history going on by the organization on this.
 

rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Nah Chia was a control freak who completely discounted the (brilliant) opinions of the staff around him. He was obviously the one who made damn sure we hired Paul Coffey.
Hired him and gave the fans a different job description for him than the one Nicholson did.:laugh:
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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You don't have to be the perfect GM to have a good team. The Flames, Jets, Leafs all have made mistakes or lost certain deals. They don't find great players in every draft.

You just have to be able to make a decent trade once in a while and have a great draft once in a while.

How Chiarelli managed to not do any of that for almost 4 years is crazy.
 
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Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
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Hired him and gave the fans a different job description for him than the one Nicholson did.:laugh:
Yep. Oh and Koskinen too. Nicholson and co take credit for signing him to the 3 year deal because they believe in him.

Why you'd ever want to take credit for that deal is beyond me, but still lol.
 
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rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Yep. Oh and Koskinen too. Nicholson and co take credit for signing him to the 3 year deal because they believe in him.

Why you'd ever want to take credit for that deal is beyond me, but still lol.
Because the alternative makes them look even dumber. They let a guy they were about to fire make three crippling moves for the franchise and stood around and let it happen. There’s so much incompetence in that organization that there isn’t any justification left to keep anyone. Shame on anyone that still believes a word coming from them.
 

Drivesaitl

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In fairness we were all on cloud 9 that week after the McDavid lottery.

Chiarelli and McLellan had a very good resume, it was easy to be fooled. At that time Chiarelli probably also could've gotten the job in Toronto if he wanted it.

He and Shero were the highest profile, experienced GMs available that summer. Nicholson knew Chiarelli from Hockey Canada. I guess they decided to move quick before someone else snapped him up. Bad move.

Speak for yourself. At the time of the hires I was touting that DeBoer, the McLellan replacement was a much better coach, that McLellan had chronically underachieved with the allstar Sharks and I expressed concern at the Chia hire and what it meant regarding our player assets. Nor was I alone in this.

Why the need to engage in revisionism to make it seem everybody thought these hires were great. In contrast this place became so head strong that any disparate views of those additions were being shouted out of the board. Basically with lots of if you don't like these moves GTFO. Love it or leave it was alive here and a lot of posters were lost that didn't drink the koolaid.
 
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Drivesaitl

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At least with Nicholson it was an understandable risk. The Bruins had made 2 Finals and won one. You assume the guy knows what he's doing.

That Boston situation was easy to misread unless you really dug into it.

Virtually anybody that watched the Boston board room video at the time had concerns about their decision makng process under Chiarelli. Going to the Boston board and hearing comments or even the Bruins fans coming here and making them, the concern was there to be seen. As with many of these things its what you look for. But populist dichotomies were setup here where anything good that happened in Boston was due to Chia, and anything bad he "was forced into doing" The same distortion of arguments occurs today on this board in relation to Chia's work here, OBC influence, who called the shots, etc. Regardless that Occams razor slices to Chiarelli being a poor GM in two markets and the worst GM we've ever had here, and who was fired two times.

To wit it was concerning to me that we were getting two hires that were let go at the same time.

Nicholson should get no excuse on this either for simply hiring two guys that conveniently fell into availability. The whole stated mandate of the time was to CHANGE how the org did things, use due diligence and that it was crucial to get competent people in here to work to start the McD time clock right. Now its 4 years later and we're hearing the same thing, we'll get it right this time..
 

Drivesaitl

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So what would you or do you expect? The Oilers driven media types to turn on those cutting the checks? The franchise reacts in accordance with their fans displeasure for the sole purpose of filling seats. Even in the 80s there was disharmony carefully spun by mgmt, media and an even greedier owner.

The spinning of the Gretzky trade, the first sighting of "crocodile tears" and Pocklington's view on it led to the first org instance of a players intent being undermined. Its hard to put a finger on it and why there could be continuance of some element in an org, and karma isn't a thing, but some sort of mindset exists within the org due to, and starting with the Gretzky trade. Which basically meant that any player, employee, person could be devalued, traded, fired by this org. Theres been a certain kind of anger and ambivalence imbued in the org ever since the Gretz trade.

I'll draw a weird parallel in describing how traits or actions can be passed on. Children will often want to be different from their parents, particularly in raising their own children but fallback will often occur where the new parents will very much resemble how they were parented. Despite wanting not to do that. To wit Coffey, Lowe, Mess, Anderson, Fuhr also had more than a candid dislike of many things that were going on in the org. They despised Pocklington. But I can't help but think a good part of Pocklingtons avarice, his tone, his attitude has infected this org. Theres signs of it that persist to present day. A lot of these lads that make up the OBC and hangers on were in a sense raised by Sather and Pocklington. These were formulative times for when those players were young. I think they absorbed and soaked up more than they thought they had.

The short form is its possible to hate someone, and still become them. Indeed its very pronounced in people generationally.
 
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Cory Gray

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Oct 9, 2018
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Why on earth would Chia be ****ing firing up the engine for Griffin ****ing Reinhart?

Total BS.....at a casual glance.....this is BS.

That's a really good point - there is no way in hell that Chia was the one that wanted or requested this trade - it came from above IMO.
 

Soundwave

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That's a really good point - there is no way in hell that Chia was the one that wanted or requested this trade - it came from above IMO.

Chiarelli had a trade for the same picks for Erik Gudbranson ... so his idea was almost as stupid.
 

JGaudreau

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Oct 9, 2015
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You don't have to be the perfect GM to have a good team. The Flames, Jets, Leafs all have made mistakes or lost certain deals. They don't find great players in every draft.

You just have to be able to make a decent trade once in a while and have a great draft once in a while.

How Chiarelli managed to not do any of that for almost 4 years is crazy.
Decent trade once in a while?

The Flames are good because Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Giordano, Brodie and Hanifin are all at least worth 1 million more than they are paid. Flames are doing well because they signed players to good contracts, ridiculously good. Every team in the league would be drooling over those contracts.
 

djdub

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Oct 1, 2011
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Anyone interested in a Mike Smith for Cam Talbot swap?

Cap hits are similar. IMO both these goalies are capable starters, they just let it get away from them this year.

Bobby Nick showed his hand that org isn't interested in Talbot anymore and I think it could be worth a shot to see how Smith does with the change of scenery. If he finishes strong, may give us the ability to sign him decently cheap next year and have a good 1-2 punch. We do lose the ability to garner a pick or prospect for Talbot, but what's he even worth now, a 4th?
 

Soundwave

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Decent trade once in a while?

The Flames are good because Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Giordano, Brodie and Hanifin are all at least worth 1 million more than they are paid. Flames are doing well because they signed players to good contracts, ridiculously good. Every team in the league would be drooling over those contracts.

Gaudreau and Giordano are the main pieces there and both were inherited. The Lindholm trade was a good one, that's what I mean. Past that it's not like Treliving has been a genius. The Hamonic deal wasn't a good one. Mike Smith wasn't a great move.

Even the cap saves he got from paying a few guys a million less he basically flushed down the toilet by spending it on James Neal. GMs need to learn to stop dumping money into the UFA market.

You don't have to be perfect as a GM, but you need to be able to make a good pick and a good trade now and again, and Chiarelli was a complete and abject failure at that. Even Bergevin in Montreal ... he's made mistakes, but he also did pretty well on the Domi and Tatar deals and that's probably saved his job.

Benning is probably a bit of a dummy in Vancouver too, but the Petterson and Boeser picks were slam dunks and that's likely going to keep him employed there. It's not about being perfect, but Chiarelli got none of that right.
 

Del Preston

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BHFaT3H.gif
 

JGaudreau

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Oct 9, 2015
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Gaudreau and Giordano are the main pieces there and both were inherited. The Lindholm trade was a good one, that's what I mean. Past that it's not like Treliving has been a genius. The Hamonic deal wasn't a good one. Mike Smith wasn't a great move.

Even the cap saves he got from paying a few guys a million less he basically flushed down the toilet by spending it on James Neal. GMs need to learn to stop dumping money into the UFA market.

You don't have to be perfect as a GM, but you need to be able to make a good pick and a good trade now and again, and Chiarelli was a complete and abject failure at that. Even Bergevin in Montreal ... he's made mistakes, but he also did pretty well on the Domi and Tatar deals and that's probably saved his job.

Benning is probably a bit of a dummy in Vancouver too, but the Petterson and Boeser picks were slam dunks and that's likely going to keep him employed there. It's not about being perfect, but Chiarelli got none of that right.
Lindholm is only as good as his contract. He's worth nearly double what he's paid. That trade is a wash if they were both paid their value. Right now on the free market he would get 8.5-9. He's a better overall player than Monahan.

Neal is far from a bust at this point. He's turning his game around, plenty of potential to play to his contract yet. Harmonic not a good deal? I guess you're right, it was an amazing deal. Hamonic is a stud, you guys would have him #1 by a mile. Bad take by you.
 

Del Preston

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Lindholm is only as good as his contract. He's worth nearly double what he's paid. That trade is a wash if they were both paid their value. Right now on the free market he would get 8.5-9. He's a better overall player than Monahan.

Neal is far from a bust at this point. He's turning his game around, plenty of potential to play to his contract yet. Harmonic not a good deal? I guess you're right, it was an amazing deal. Hamonic is a stud, you guys would have him #1 by a mile. Bad take by you.
There isn't a team in the league who would give Lindholm $8.5 to $9M per season.

The Neal contract is ugly right now.

Hamonic would not be the #1 defenseman on the Oilers.
 

JGaudreau

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Oct 9, 2015
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There isn't a team in the league who would give Lindholm $8.5 to $9M per season.

And if he gets 90 points multiple seasons in a row? He's trending that way.

Better stick handler, better skater, better shot and significantly better FO% than Monahan. What exactly does a 90 point player with elite stick handling, vision and one time shot deserve in your mind? Easily one of the most underrated players in the league if not the most.
 

Del Preston

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Mar 8, 2013
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And if he gets 90 points multiple seasons in a row? He's trending that way.

Better stick handler, better skater, better shot and significantly better FO% than Monahan. What exactly does a 90 point player with elite stick handling, vision and one time shot deserve in your mind? Easily one of the most underrated players in the league if not the most.
He's had one season (this one) with more than 45 points. He is not anywhere close to a $9M/season player right now.
 

Soundwave

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Lindholm is only as good as his contract. He's worth nearly double what he's paid. That trade is a wash if they were both paid their value. Right now on the free market he would get 8.5-9. He's a better overall player than Monahan.

Neal is far from a bust at this point. He's turning his game around, plenty of potential to play to his contract yet. Harmonic not a good deal? I guess you're right, it was an amazing deal. Hamonic is a stud, you guys would have him #1 by a mile. Bad take by you.

Neal has like 2 goals in his last 23 games and is 31 years old. Lucic has double that amount in the same time frame and no one is crazy about Lucic here.

Hamonic would not be the no.1 here, he's about as good as Adam Larsson. Klefbom is a large step above that. Giordano is what makes that blue line go, he's a legit no.1 but Treliving didn't have anything to do with that.

Lindholm was a good trade which I said, but he wouldn't sniff 8.5 on the open market, lets get real. He's had one really good year in a season where scoring is sky high for tons of players. If he's getting 8.5-9, that means an actual All-Star like Jeff Skinner is getting 12 per.
 
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Tyrolean

Registered User
Feb 1, 2004
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Gaudreau and Giordano are the main pieces there and both were inherited. The Lindholm trade was a good one, that's what I mean. Past that it's not like Treliving has been a genius. The Hamonic deal wasn't a good one. Mike Smith wasn't a great move.

Even the cap saves he got from paying a few guys a million less he basically flushed down the toilet by spending it on James Neal. GMs need to learn to stop dumping money into the UFA market.

You don't have to be perfect as a GM, but you need to be able to make a good pick and a good trade now and again, and Chiarelli was a complete and abject failure at that. Even Bergevin in Montreal ... he's made mistakes, but he also did pretty well on the Domi and Tatar deals and that's probably saved his job.

Benning is probably a bit of a dummy in Vancouver too, but the Petterson and Boeser picks were slam dunks and that's likely going to keep him employed there. It's not about being perfect, but Chiarelli got none of that right.
He did some things right. Talbot (for 1 year), Maroon with salary retained, found Koskinen, signed Chaisson, Russell, His errors far outweighed his successes. Worst Oiler GM followed by Lowe.
 

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