yukoner88
Registered User
**** yeah I'd love to see Lucic as an oiler, especially with his hate for vancouver
**** yeah I'd love to see Lucic as an oiler, especially with his hate for vancouver
And yet there are people that want to run him out of town,RNH is more important to the Oilers than people think.
Not necessarily running him out of town. Simply don't think he should be untouchable. $6M is a ton of money for a 3C.
I really don't want to see Nuge go, but for a true top pairing D? If another GM reaches out about a trade involving Nuge, Chia's gotta at least return the call.
Is there any other position on this team that the Oilers clearly have tradeable assets that wouldn't leave us with (another) big hole to fill.
Nuge seems like a good kid. Maybe a change of scen
Trouble is other teams want to fleece the Oilers. They want RNH for their #6 D. Teams want the Oilers best players for their #6 D or 4th liners. I trade Ebs before I trade RNH. I'd keep Yak over Ebs because Yak is cheaper and actually works hard.
oobga
Tier 2 Fan
- Aug 1, 2003
- 23,400
- 18,557
Do you mean the fans of other teams? No NHL GM that is serious about acquiring RNH is going to offer a #6 D. These people are professionals and need to maintain professional relationships with their peers.
You'll be surprised. Other teams GMs underrated the Oilers players while overrating their own.
SupremeTeam16
5-14-6-1
That's so dumb. A GM who's any good at his job has to be objective, he has to know his players and be honest with their talents, faults, limits or if they just don't fit. On the other hand they have to be able to look past a player not fitting right on a team and understand that just because a player isn't doing well in one environment doesn't mean he won't do good in another.
You speak to me dude. I couldn't have said it better myself. Oilers hogging all the high draft picks that would help sell in other markets and then absolutely destroying their careers. This is a pathetic organization and the fact that Lowe and MacT still have roles in the organization makes my blood boil.
Replacement*
Checked out
You missed my point. Dumping it in deep on the PP is a poor strategy for almost any team. It tends to work for the kings, and especially in the playoffs, because it allows them to tee off on retrieving D which is their intent in softening them up as much as it is generating chances. Kings beat teams in the playoffs through attrition. Make everybody black and blue, slow them down, remove their will. Other Cali teams have had to counteract by playing a similar style. But all have big pounder forwards that are some of the physically strongest forwards in the game to win those deep puck battles. Oilers lineup doesn't have that.
Next, stats have cited teams carrying puck in tend to have higher PP success than those dumping it in.
I don't know what everybody else is like but when I'm forced to utilized a system that is far worse than one I am adept at it creates some level of frustration. Particularly for experienced players which Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Pouliot, Purcell are.
Add to this that we have a cluster**** group of players like Schultz, Letestu, Korpi, that you end up carrying on the PP, and more frustration is natural.
Its a completely natural human response, and especially in pro sports, for players to start the feel they are not being given the tools to win and have success when that is the obvious case.
We've limped through another season with around 2 centers that can play the game at any given time. We have a 3rd, Letestu who is subpar in any area of the ice. We rotate 4ths who shouldn't even be playing that role in the NHL. We lack any top D, or pairing.
For an entire ****ing year these HUGE wholes have not been worked on. Players are told "just play through it" despite an easy realization that we'e the weakest team in the NHL at Center or at D. With apologies to Drai and McDavid who are two inexperienced to be shouldering this immense load.
When you have top players like Hall being impacted you know theres a lot more wrong here than the players isolated performance.
Fact of the matter is NOBODY respects this org and around the NHLPA this team is an utter joke to everybody. YOu think that doesn't get around? You think that sparring doesn't occur in every faceoff.
Oilers players hear that 100X a game.
The org has made this a laughingstock for years. By intentionally tanking. That's not on the players.
Exactly.
Fans everywhere ridiculously equate the nonsense trade offers they read on HFOil, or other boards, as being realistic.
Depending on the #1D. I don't think Nuge gets you the in return. Might have to be Nuge +. The key to any Niuge scenario is who the 1D is and what the + in return. Shouldn't have to be a big +.
Fat Balloon
Registered User
- Jan 20, 2010
- 66
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RNH is not a true 1C.
On a good, cup-contending team, it may be a reach for him to even slot in as a 2C. Then the problem is that he isnt best suited for a 3C role. This somewhat limits where he can be traded if you want to maximize value.
The other reality is that the Oilers arent getting a 1D for RNH. If the Oilers need to add, its going to need to be more than spare parts. It would look like 1D + prospect for RNH + 1st round pick.
If you want to do player for player, the cost of a true 1D will be Drai. 1D for Drai + picks. This is based on 1D value > 1C value.
On a good, cup-contending team, it may be a reach for him to even slot in as a 2C. Then the problem is that he isnt best suited for a 3C role. This somewhat limits where he can be traded if you want to maximize value.
The other reality is that the Oilers arent getting a 1D for RNH. If the Oilers need to add, its going to need to be more than spare parts. It would look like 1D + prospect for RNH + 1st round pick.
If you want to do player for player, the cost of a true 1D will be Drai. 1D for Drai + picks. This is based on 1D value > 1C value.
ManofSteel55
Registered User
He doesn't hAve to be 3C. In fact, running him in the middle with Hall and Draisaitl would be ideal. And McDavid with Eberle and Lucic. Of course, we won't improve our blue line if we do that.
Fourier
Registered User
Let's look at the top 10 teams in the standings and see how your claim pans out...
1) Washington---Backstrom and Kuznetzov = no need for RNH
2) Dallas ---Benn and Seguin stay but RNH would likely be their #2 with Spezza moving to the wing.
3) Chicago...RNH is definitely better than Anisimov.
4) St. Louis.. He would probably play as their #1C. He'd certainly be an upgrade on Lehtera who is playing between Schwartz and Tarasenko.
5) Florida...Bugstad has limited offensive skills. Nuge plays #2 behind Barkov easily.
6) LA...Kopitar is the undisputed #1. They have Carter so they don't really need Nuge but Carter has been very effective as a RW. Nuge takes his spot, Carter moves up with Kopitar and Lucic and Brown moves to the thgird line where he is much more suited.
7) NYR...Nuge might well be their #1C going forward. Brassard is now playing very well but he is 27 and did not break out until he was 26. They also have Stepan so Nuge would not be a huge need but he would still easily play in their top 2.
8) Anaheim.. Kesler is their #2 but plays mostly as a shutdown guy. Anaheim lacks scoring depth. They could easily figure out a way to work Nuge into the top 6 especially if they were looking ahead a few years.
9) Tampa...Tyler Johnson has returned to earth. If Stamkos leaves Nuge would be their #1C.
10) Boston...With Bergeron and Krecji they don't need Nuge.
They've been on a whole new level of suck since January. I doubt that that's escaped Chia's notice as well.
SometimesY
Fly
- Jun 9, 2011
- 3,691
- 0
I really like the Hall, Nuge, Drai, idea. Nuge won't be up to speed when he returns, but I hope we try this out. I think we are really missing Nuge taking the tough assignments. Drai is getting exhausted, mentally or physically I don't know, but he's pretty new in the NHL. Nuge is young himself, just shows you how well he's adapted and how much we need him.
I would trade Eberle before ANY of our other top guys.
I would trade Eberle before ANY of our other top guys.
Bangers
Registered User
- May 31, 2006
- 3,919
- 868
The handful of games they played together, they were pretty awesome. It may not have held up over a longer period, but I agree - I'd like to see it again.
nexttothemoon
and again...
The problem with trading Eberle is that you are taking out a true finisher... maybe the only one on this team to be honest.
Eberle looks like he sleepwalks through some games... but even while sleepwalking, he likely puts up 30+ goals with McDavid in a season... and a good chance at 40+ imo.
You could argue that "anyone" would put up goals with McDavid... but I don't think that's the case... Eberle has the hands and finish to take advantage of an elite playmaker like McDavid. I don't know if there's anyone better here to take advantage of McDavid's skill.
You trade that away and you may be endlessly looking to replace that again.
Eberle looks like he sleepwalks through some games... but even while sleepwalking, he likely puts up 30+ goals with McDavid in a season... and a good chance at 40+ imo.
You could argue that "anyone" would put up goals with McDavid... but I don't think that's the case... Eberle has the hands and finish to take advantage of an elite playmaker like McDavid. I don't know if there's anyone better here to take advantage of McDavid's skill.
You trade that away and you may be endlessly looking to replace that again.
Remember November/Dec when the games still mattered, Hall/Drai were carrying the team, and Ebs/RNH/Pouliot were costing the team games on a nightly basis despite being in sheltered roles behind the top line? I'm sure Chia remembers that too. There were actually similar arguments last year with regards to Hall, just skewed towards the negative instead of the positive as it has been with RNH. Ie - the team was playing well without Hall(which they weren't really of course), so he must be holding them back and they should trade him and run with a top line of RNH/Ebs/Pouliot because he must have been holding the team back from success.
Simply put, one injured player(one who has been exceedingly mediocre all year)isn't what's causing the recent slide when half the defense should be in the AHL, and several players already have one foot out the door in anticipation of the trade deadline.
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Please to be telling me about all the times they cost the team a game. Not sure it's true they were sheltered either: Nuge and Eberle still have fewer o-zone starts and higher QoC than Hall/Drai.
There's a pretty popular counter narrative that the team wouldn't miss RNH because he's a third line centre and Drai and McD are the bright young things.
Ah: d'oy. No one was arguing that, though. but if you don't think losing the only top six centre with any real NHL experience is going to have an impact, you're dreaming.
It's pretty funny too that above, you claim RNH and Eberle were responsible for so many losses, but now that the team is diving deeper into the muck without the former, it's everyone's fault but the golden boys who are supposed to be carrying the team in RNH's absence. Must be nice to have your cake and eat it too.
It's not hard to find. The run was from around Nov 23rd at the start of the eastern road trip, to Dec 26th, during which time the trio put up staggering minus numbers on a nightly basis while typically facing secondary competition. Even in the wins, the rest of the team had to work that much harder to make up for how much those three were giving up defensively
I was just pointing out that Chia is going remember those stretches as well as this current one.
Didn't make that argument
You must have missed the original post I was responding to, which conflated RNH absence with the slide.
The top 6 center argument is a bit suspect as well, considering they added a superior player in Mcdavid almost immediately after RNH's injury, though it sounds like you would disagree with Mcdavid's effectiveness. Regardless, there are more severe issues affecting the team than a single player's absence in the top six, which I already pointed out.
Golden boys? You sure you're not an alt account of Beerfish?
If you want to criticize Mcdavid and Drai, have at it. I was just arguing against the idea that a lone player would make such a big impact on the success of the team right now. I did much the same earlier in the year when people decided that Mcdavid coming back from injury would make the team much better in spite of all the other issues with the roster.
And ignore the previous four seasons?
I never said you did. I'm pointing out that the realization that the team misses RNH seems only to be seeping in now that we've seen the team continue to thrash about ineffectually with both Drai and McDavid in the lineup.
No, because I responded to your post which initiated this dialogue.
They aren't mutually exclusive. Jesus.
Better =/= good.
Personally I think the team would still be bad, but performing better if they were able to move more pieces around in the top nine when things aren't working. It's not such an outrageous argument, is it?
Replacement*
Checked out
It's not hard to find. The run was from around Nov 23rd at the start of the eastern road trip, to Dec 26th, during which time the trio put up staggering minus numbers on a nightly basis while typically facing secondary competition. Even in the wins, the rest of the team had to work that much harder to make up for how much those three were giving up defensively
I was just pointing out that Chia is going remember those stretches as well as this current one.
Didn't make that argument
You must have missed the original post I was responding to, which conflated RNH absence with the slide.
The top 6 center argument is a bit suspect as well, considering they added a superior player in Mcdavid almost immediately after RNH's injury, though it sounds like you would disagree with Mcdavid's effectiveness. Regardless, there are more severe issues affecting the team than a single player's absence in the top six, which I already pointed out.
Golden boys? You sure you're not an alt account of Beerfish?
If you want to criticize Mcdavid and Drai, have at it. I was just arguing against the idea that a lone player would make such a big impact on the success of the team right now. I did much the same earlier in the year when people decided that Mcdavid coming back from injury would make the team much better in spite of all the other issues with the roster.
Excellent posts Tarus. Just wanted to mention you're nailing it.
The four years Chia wasn't here? Years which RNH was generally a disappointment, and showed very little progress in his game?
I think fans of RNH are probably lucky Chia wasn't around to add those years to his assessment of the player. He likely isn't a fanboy with selective memory like the previous GMs of the franchise were.
Which I quite clearly disagree with there. The defense which is now comprised of mostly AHLers, and quite a few of the vets are phoning it in, as I stated before when I originally disagreed with your speculations on why the team was doing poorly
They sort of are, since the Oilers moved laterally between RNH and Mcdavid in the top six(and that's being extremely generous towards RNH). The Ebs/Pouliot line has actually been producing now that they have someone to drive the offense there, but the team is much worse overall.
Sure looks like the problems are elsewhere.
You're free to make it, I just don't agree with it. RNH struggled to make a positive impact when the defense is mostly healthy and is largely dependent on his teammates for results, he would likely be just another one of the passengers in the lineup if he was out there right now with the rest of the team instead of on the IR.
Thanks man
Beerfish
Registered User
- Apr 14, 2007
- 19,513
- 5,665
Well if Chia is going to 'remember' those times when players stunk and cost the team games then the only safe player is mcdavid.
RNH, Eberle and that lot cost the team in November? Well hall and drai are costing the team games now and over the last 20 games, if you want to look at bleeding minuses look at the hall, drai, purcell line over the last 1/4 of the season.
The simple fact is that as I've said many times before the oilers are a terrible team because they are totally incapable of having their best players play well at the same time. This goes back to the Gagner, cogs, hemksy days.
If one line is running well the other is not just slumping they are in fact pure awful. Then the bad line suddenly produces and the good line falls off the cliff.
Not one player on this team should be safe other than mcdavid.
RNH, Eberle and that lot cost the team in November? Well hall and drai are costing the team games now and over the last 20 games, if you want to look at bleeding minuses look at the hall, drai, purcell line over the last 1/4 of the season.
The simple fact is that as I've said many times before the oilers are a terrible team because they are totally incapable of having their best players play well at the same time. This goes back to the Gagner, cogs, hemksy days.
If one line is running well the other is not just slumping they are in fact pure awful. Then the bad line suddenly produces and the good line falls off the cliff.
Not one player on this team should be safe other than mcdavid.
Should read can't improve our blue line if we do that.
Moving Nuge to the wing makes no sense. From either a dollar or asset sense.
These team needs defensive help and you are going to keep a potential trade chip to try him at a new position for $6M per year?
Gotta move something to get real defensive help. The team needs cap room to make that work.
