Proposal: Chi - Pitt

[josra33]

You don’t think a 100 point (I’ll just call him that since that’s his average last 2 years) elite winger and a 75 point (average last 2 years) shutdown first line C (each with 3 cups and coming off their best statistical years) have “any value”? None?!

People are out of their mind.
I wish these nonsensical threads would stop if that’s the case.

In a vacuum sure... but there’s this thing called a salary cap.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Preposterous.

The pens would never trade for Toews already having Sid and Geno on the roster. And Chicago would be looking for elite prospects or high picks.. Zucker, McCann, and a late 2nd does nothing for them.

Any deal around Kane absolutely involves Guentzel and that’s where the Pens have to say no. Kane is obviously the better player, but Guentzel is far cheaper and produces at a high rate so why trade him?


Buffalo has a ton of attractive pieces in a Kane deal. Pitt doesn’t make sense for either side as a trading partner

 

[wahsnairb]

In a vacuum sure... but there’s this thing called a salary cap.

People keep speaking like Chicago can’t/won’t take salary back in a deal (should they ever move these guys) or retain salary.

Also, people keep talking like they are crippling contracts. No one is arguing that they didn’t get paid for 3 Cup wins, but Kane is worth every bit of 9M and Toews is worth every bit of 7M. It’s not like these guys would be making 5M on some other team.

People talking about needing to retain 50% and this absurd stuff are out of their minds. An elite W at 5M and a 1C who puts up almost a ppg while being one of the best defensive forwards in the game at 5M would command just a stupid amount.

But thanks for reminding me there was a cap; I completely forgot that when evaluating their worth

 

[Pitter Patter]

In a vacuum sure... but there’s this thing called a salary cap.

The Blackhawks don't have compliance issues; why are they desperate to give away their best players without getting prospects or picks back? It doesn't fit their stated rebuild strategy.

 

[orby]

This is among the most unrealistic, farfetched trade scenarios I've ever seen on this board. Congrats.

 

[Jerkbait]

Pitt goes all in for next three years and brings in Toews and Kane.
Chicago goes all in for a rebuild

Chicago
Guentzel (could be kept or flipped)
Zucker (could be kept or flipped)
McCann (could be kept or flipped)
2022 1rst
2022 2nd
Poulin
Matheson (cap dump)
Cap 19 million + 3 million retained + 22 mil In

Pit
Kane (Retained 1.5mil)
Toews (Retained 1.5mil)
Cap 18 million In

Lafferty - Sid - Kappy
Zar - Malkin- Kane
Erod - Toews - Rust
Scevior - Bleuger - Tanev

Dumo - Letang
Petts - Marino
POJ -Ceci

Jarry
Desmith

Rutherford goes full crazy and says yolo for the next three years. Fills the left side with Cheap/AHL contracts. Capwise it works for this year.

Chicago gets a ton of value and good players who could be moved more easily.

Who says no?

Pitt asks what are you on ???? Gezz Jake has almost a much value as kane and more than toews... get real..

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

....Wow where I do I begin with this one?

Laffy is a 4th liner, a good 4th liner but a 4th liner none the less, no way in hell should he be on a top line.
ZAR is giant chunk of elephant crap who's barely an AHL extra forward, so why in Zeus's butthole is he playing with Malkin?
The fact we're going younger faster and hungrier, cheaper this year, and then decided f*** it lets get older, slower, and load up on bloated ass awful contracts again.
I wouldn't trade Zucker and Guentzel alone for the entire Blackhawks line up.
Did I mention this post is clown shoes?

 

[COHawk]

Even if the Hawks said yes I really don't think Toews would waive his NMC to be a third line center.

 

[Pitter Patter]

Pitt asks what are you on ???? Gezz Jake has almost a much value as kane and more than toews... get real..

Username checks out

 

[cspera777]

The blackhawks would be the ones saying no. Easily.

Anyone who says the Hawks would say no to this is a moron who should stop watching hockey. Guentzel is arguably just as good as Kane is right now and is more valuable due to the contract. If you offered me Kane straight up for Guentzel I would say no and so would every GM in the league. Towes is washed up and highly overpaid even with the 1.5 retention. He is a good leader but we don't need leaders.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Anyone who says the Hawks would say no to this is a moron who should stop watching hockey. Guentzel is arguably just as good as Kane is right now and is more valuable due to the contract. If you offered me Kane straight up for Guentzel I would say no and so would every GM in the league. Towes is washed up and highly overpaid even with the 1.5 retention. He is a good leader but we don't need leaders.

Kane actually makes his own offense meanwhile Guentzel was a dud on his own line when Sid and Malkin weren’t there to hold his hand. Saying Guentzel is better in any sense of the word is extreme homerism. Look at Guentzels best season ever then look at how pathetic is point totals were away from Sid. He only functions well with an elite C he isn’t a line driver in the slightest

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I honestly think this is good for Chicago. They can finally transition into a young team. They have Keith and Seabrook to lead the young team. I think they’d need to give up a few picks for a player like Nick Foligno or Lee maybe bring in a player like Parise to lead their young forward group. No way pitsburgh does this. Maybe something around Kane but Towes is just such a gross over kill at 3c and they’re destroying their depth.

 

[Extra Texture]

This reminds me of 2004, when the Lakers got the "big 4". Except that team made the finals before getting stomped. I doubt this team would even get close to that, especially when the Pens eviscerate their forward depth and flank their star centers with.......ZAR, Rodrigues and Lafferty

Accepting this insane reality for a minute, having 87, 71, Kane and Captain serious all together would be a hell of alot of fun. As far as insane scenarios, this one is pretty fun to think about but belongs in the twilight zone.

 

[ColbyChaos]

I honestly think this is good for Chicago. They can finally transition into a young team. They have Keith and Seabrook to lead the young team. I think they’d need to give up a few picks for a player like Nick Foligno or Lee maybe bring in a player like Parise to lead their young forward group. No way pitsburgh does this. Maybe something around Kane but Towes is just such a gross over kill at 3c and they’re destroying their depth.

Giving up picks for those guys is counter productive. Also are you aware of Parise’s contract? That would be an instant no go

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Giving up picks for those guys is counter productive. Also are you aware of Parise’s contract? That would be an instant no go

By the time the hawks compete he’d be a UFA.

 

[wahsnairb]

Anyone who says the Hawks would say no to this is a moron who should stop watching hockey. Guentzel is arguably just as good as Kane is right now and is more valuable due to the contract. If you offered me Kane straight up for Guentzel I would say no and so would every GM in the league. Towes is washed up and highly overpaid even with the 1.5 retention. He is a good leader but we don't need leaders.

Anyone who genuinely thinks this is true either 1) is the biggest homer on the planet and/or 2) has a disgraceful understanding of hockey.

 

[TySmith4Norris]

Anyone who genuinely thinks this is true either 1) is the biggest homer on the planet and/or 2) has a disgraceful understanding of hockey.

Guentzel has been one of the best wingers in hockey for a couple years, and paced at >40 goals the last two
Has proven chemistry with both top centers

I don't think it's crazy to think he's more valuable to Pittsburgh at 6M than Kane is at 10.5M

Even if Kane plays the best hockey of his career the production difference is <20 points for an extra 4.5M

I just don't think you've watched a ton of Guentzel and/or assume his production is just a result of his centers (it's not)

 

[Jerkbait]

Username checks out

Can't agrue with facts Pat......

 

[wahsnairb]

Guentzel has been one of the best wingers in hockey for a couple years, and paced at >40 goals the last two
Has proven chemistry with both top centers

I don't think it's crazy to think he's more valuable to Pittsburgh at 6M than Kane is at 10.5M

Even if Kane plays the best hockey of his career the production difference is <20 points for an extra 4.5M

I just don't think you've watched a ton of Guentzel and/or assume his production is just a result of his centers (it's not)

I understand how good he is. I live in Columbus and go to 90% of home games because of what I do. I have probably seen Pittsburgh play in person as much the last couple years as the Hawks. I also understand at his cap hit he may be a better fit for the Pens and some other teams.

That being said, he is not “just as good as Kane right now”... that’s absurd. They aren’t close to the same level. Every GM in the league wouldn’t take him over Kane... that’s absurd.

Kane has been better for the entirety of there careers, no one can argue that. So we will look at right now since right now was mentioned.

Over the past 2 seasons (we will briefly mention, but not focus on playing with Crosby versus playing with the merry-go-round of inferior players that Kane has been attached to, on a worse team):

Guentzel - 40g, 36a 76p in 84g; 20g, 23a 43p in 39g
Kane - 44g, 66a 110p in 81g; 33g, 51a 84p in 70g

That was a whole lot of words to talk about something 99% of people already understand. I’m sorry.

 

[TySmith4Norris]

I understand how good he is. I live in Columbus and go to 90% of home games because of what I do. I have probably seen Pittsburgh play in person as much the last couple years as the Hawks. I also understand at his cap hit he may be a better fit for the Pens and some other teams.

That being said, he is not “just as good as Kane right now”... that’s absurd. They aren’t close to the same level. Every GM in the league wouldn’t take him over Kane... that’s absurd.

Kane has been better for the entirety of there careers, no one can argue that. So we will look at right now since right now was mentioned.

Over the past 2 seasons (we will briefly mention, but not focus on playing with Crosby versus playing with the merry-go-round of inferior players that Kane has been attached to, on a worse team):

Guentzel - 40g, 36a 76p in 84g; 20g, 23a 43p in 39g
Kane - 44g, 66a 110p in 81g; 33g, 51a 84p in 70g

That was a whole lot of words to talk about something 99% of people already understand. I’m sorry.

And I didn't say Guentzel was a better player. Ignoring cap, you obviously go with Kane

I just disagreed with the notion that Kane vs. Guentzel and 4.5M in cap is that imbalanced, when the difference in production is so minor

Will say I assumed it was <20 points when it's really around 30, but will counter that by noting that Guentzel has never really gotten first unit power play time for a full season

 

[HawksDub89]

In a vacuum sure... but there’s this thing called a salary cap.

You familiar with salary retention?

 

[PensandCaps]

Uh hell yah. I don't think Hawks would accept.

Although, Guentzel+Poulin and a 1st is a pretty good offer for Kane, Not sure Chicago could do better.


A team with Malkin/Kane/Sid/Toews would be pretty unbeatable imo.

 

[PensandCaps]

And I didn't say Guentzel was a better player. Ignoring cap, you obviously go with Kane

I just disagreed with the notion that Kane vs. Guentzel and 4.5M in cap is that imbalanced, when the difference in production is so minor

Will say I assumed it was <20 points when it's really around 30, but will counter that by noting that Guentzel has never really gotten first unit power play time for a full season

man.

Kane is better than Malkin.

Would you rather have Guentzel or Malkin?

I'll take the Elite player.

 

[TySmith4Norris]

man.

Kane is better than Malkin.

Would you rather have Guentzel or Malkin?

I'll take the Elite player.

Disagree on the first point. Consistency obviously matters to an extent, but Malkin on his best day is generational, not just elite

Guentzel or Malkin is apples vs. oranges when we're talking about the difference between two wingers

My perspective is the difference between Guentzel's production next to Crosby and Kane's production next to Crosby not being worth 4.5M, but I can certainly see the other side of the argument

 

[ColbyChaos]

Guentzel has been one of the best wingers in hockey for a couple years, and paced at >40 goals the last two
Has proven chemistry with both top centers


I just don't think you've watched a ton of Guentzel and/or assume his production is just a result of his centers (it's not)

If that was the case then he would have been able to produce away from then when he hasn’t been able to. His scoring rate away from Sid and Malkin is pathetic. He is more valuable to Pit than anywhere else. He isn’t a good enough player to actually carry a line.

And I didn't say Guentzel was a better player. Ignoring cap, you obviously go with Kane

I just disagreed with the notion that Kane vs. Guentzel and 4.5M in cap is that imbalanced, when the difference in production is so minor

Will say I assumed it was <20 points when it's really around 30, but will counter that by noting that Guentzel has never really gotten first unit power play time for a full season

Lmao I love the PP time argument which would you rather have, Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin be your center, or have first unit PP time and have Drake Cagguila as your regular line mate. This shouldn’t be a tough choice to anyone with an IQ above 12