Trade: [CHI/MIN] Jimmy Butler, Justin Patton for Lauri Markkanen, Zach LaVine, and Kris Dunn

[Morozov]

So...Auston Matthews and Connor McDavid aren't franchise players?

McDavid has already put up a 100 point season and has been a ppg player since he entered the league. Markannen is not on that level in the NBA yet. He's nothing close to the equivalent of a guy putting up 100 points.

You seriously think it's an apt comparison to compare to a guy who led the league in scoring lol?

When Markannen does that then he'll be a franchise player sure. Currently he's 53rd in ppg.

 

[Morozov]

Dot the i's and cross the t's as much as you want. Lauri is still a franchise talent and that should be obvious with his long-range skills. 3 pointer's are more important than ever and Lauri has all the tools to became one of the greatest shooters ever seen on NBA.

So 15ppg scorer is a franchise player to you lol.

League must be full of them in your eyes.

 

[Asiantuntija]

So 15ppg scorer is a franchise player to you lol.

League must be full of them in your eyes.

It's not that simple. If rookie scores 15 PPG it tells about talent. If rookie scores 15 PPG and shoots 3s better than anyone on the history, it tells about something more.

What if he turns out to be best long range shooter ever seen on NBA?

 

[Morozov]

It's not that simple. If rookie scores 15 PPG it tells about talent. If rookie scores 15 PPG and shoots 3s better than anyone on the history, it tells about something more.

What if he turns out to be best long range shooter ever seen on NBA?

But it doesn't tell you that he's a franchise player YET. You have to earn that tag and prove you are that level, not show signs you could be one day. You are not a franchise player when you're a scorer putting up 15ppg. You're a rookie with potential.

It would take more than that to be a franchise player. Many of the great 3 point shooters are not franchise players at all.

This isn't a slight on him so don't get offended. It is normal. Very, very, very few players could step right in and be a franchise level player in one year.

 

[lilphildub]

It's not that simple. If rookie scores 15 PPG it tells about talent. If rookie scores 15 PPG and shoots 3s better than anyone on the history, it tells about something more.

What if he turns out to be best long range shooter ever seen on NBA?

What if he turns into a Mirotic clone? What if he turns into Channing Frye? What if he turns into a 3pt specialist? What if he turns into Michael Jordan? You can throw what ifs all you want but none of them have any merit

Nothing he's done so far shows he'll be the best at anything in history. He COULD become a franchise player but he hasn't proven anything yet to be one. Franchise players don't put up 15ppg and 7REB. He has POTENTIAL to be one. I'll be thrilled if he turns into a Porzingis but he's not near him yet. There are many players in history who have had better rookie years than Markkanen and then fell off the map. Do I think that'll be the case? No but its still possible. Its not a done deal like you're making it sound. He can tear his ACL and never play game tomorrow

 

[sparxx87]

...
It would take more than that to be a franchise player. Many of the great 3 point shooters are not franchise players at all.

This isn't a slight on him so don't get offended. It is normal. Very, very, very few players could step right in and be a franchise level player in one year.

I think that’s the most important thing for him. Right now he’s a great shooter... but he’s pretty mediocre at pretty much everything else.

For my money a franchise player has multiple elite tools. Someone you give the ball to late in the game and they’ll get you a bucket or make a play. He has to be a guy whose making things happen at both ends of the floor and beating you in multiple ways.

I’d really like to see him learn to work down low more. Get to the line and draw some double teams. He’s a good free throw shooter and if he can learn to make plays down low he could be a very good offensive player.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

McDavid has already put up a 100 point season and has been a ppg player since he entered the league. Markannen is not on that level in the NBA yet. He's nothing close to the equivalent of a guy putting up 100 points.

You seriously think it's an apt comparison to compare to a guy who led the league in scoring lol?

When Markannen does that then he'll be a franchise player sure. Currently he's 53rd in ppg.

Yet, here's McDavid leading his team to yet another first overall pick the year after....(shrugs)

Not even going to mention McDavid rookie year, while injured half of it, would be similar, if not identical to Markkanens impact to the Bulls this year, which is ironic considering how the Canadian fan wants so desperately to place him on a pedestal the same way they are accusing the Finnish fan of doing to Markkanen.

I'll say this tho, the casual fan in the states knows who Markkanen is, where as nobody actually has a clue who McDavid is. But, it's quite alright to say that McDavid is a franchise player even though he has not done one thing for said franchise outside of winning a scoring title for himself where as Markkanen is just leading a terrible Bulls team in almost every impact stat outside of assists.

Ouch. The dreaded HF double standard strikes yet again. All that is needed to be a "franchise" player is an Art Ross trophy. Somebody needs to tell Toews this and publicly shame him for his less then stellar trophy case outside of a Smythe and, oh, idk, leading his team to three Cups, or Isiah Thomas for leading the Pistons to two titles, or even better, Magic Johnson never lead the league in scoring so he obviously wasn't a franchise player.

This thread is the internet equivalent of the Salvation army.

 

[Morozov]

Yet, here's McDavid leading his team to yet another first overall pick the year after....(shrugs)

Not even going to mention McDavid rookie year, while injured half of it, would be similar, if not identical to Markkanens impact to the Bulls this year, which is ironic considering how the Canadian fan wants so desperately to place him on a pedestal the same way they are accusing the Finnish fan of doing to Markkanen.

I'll say this tho, the casual fan in the states knows who Markkanen is, where as nobody actually has a clue who McDavid is. But, it's quite alright to say that McDavid is a franchise player even though he has not done one thing for said franchise outside of winning a scoring title for himself where as Markkanen is just leading a terrible Bulls team in almost every impact stat outside of assists.

Ouch. The dreaded HF double standard strikes yet again. All that is needed to be a "franchise" player is an Art Ross trophy. Somebody needs to tell Toews this and publicly shame him for his less then stellar trophy case outside of a Smythe and, oh, idk, leading his team to three Cups, or Isiah Thomas for leading the Pistons to two titles, or even better, Magic Johnson never lead the league in scoring so he obviously wasn't a franchise player.

This thread is the internet equivalent of the Salvation army.

Lol you can try squirm your way around it all you want but the fact you think comparing a guy who has led his entire league in scoring is a legitimate comparison to a guy currently 53rd in his league in scoring says everything. Your constant attempts to drift topics all over the place convince nobody but the fellow Markannen homer who latches on to anything pro Markannen he can whether he understands what is being said or not.

Do you genuinely think Markannen is on a level in his league that McDavid is in his based on performance so far? Surely you can't be that ridiculous.

 

[darko]

So...Auston Matthews and Connor McDavid aren't franchise players?

Markkanen is no Matthews/McDavid. Not sure why you keep bringing them up.

 

[Asiantuntija]

But it doesn't tell you that he's a franchise player YET. You have to earn that tag and prove you are that level, not show signs you could be one day. You are not a franchise player when you're a scorer putting up 15ppg. You're a rookie with potential.

It would take more than that to be a franchise player. Many of the great 3 point shooters are not franchise players at all.

This isn't a slight on him so don't get offended. It is normal. Very, very, very few players could step right in and be a franchise level player in one year.

We have different logic. You don't like to make predictions about players future, but i do.

Everyone knows that he isn't franchise player yet, but he has all the potential to became one in future.

He has way more than that. Excellent athletic abilities & good ball-handling skills. Especially huge work ethic. Practiced days & weeks in -20 C.

Never been offended, never will be offended.

 

[Asiantuntija]

What if he turns into a Mirotic clone? What if he turns into Channing Frye? What if he turns into a 3pt specialist? What if he turns into Michael Jordan? You can throw what ifs all you want but none of them have any merit

Nothing he's done so far shows he'll be the best at anything in history. He COULD become a franchise player but he hasn't proven anything yet to be one. Franchise players don't put up 15ppg and 7REB. He has POTENTIAL to be one. I'll be thrilled if he turns into a Porzingis but he's not near him yet. There are many players in history who have had better rookie years than Markkanen and then fell off the map. Do I think that'll be the case? No but its still possible. Its not a done deal like you're making it sound. He can tear his ACL and never play game tomorrow

Finally someone admits this.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Lol you can try squirm your way around it all you want but the fact you think comparing a guy who has led his entire league in scoring is a legitimate comparison to a guy currently 53rd in his league in scoring says everything. Your constant attempts to drift topics all over the place convince nobody but the fellow Markannen homer who latches on to anything pro Markannen he can whether he understands what is being said or not.

Do you genuinely think Markannen is on a level in his league that McDavid is in his based on performance so far? Surely you can't be that ridiculous.

Hmmm let's see;

McDavid sure didn't finish in the top 50 in his rookie season, am I right? Granted, he was injured, but then again, Markkanen played injured for almost an entire month.

Now, your trying to say "well McDavid done did lead the league", but then again, it wasn't his rookie year. Let's not even mention, oh, how McDavid is weak on faceoffs, doesn't hit, doesn't block shots, when the whole "franchise" tag had definition of "being able to do everything" which was a knock on Markkanen since, I'm told on these forums, he only shoots.

Wait, McDavid is elite offensively, but so is Markkanen. Both are Taylor made for their current respected sports, but, McDavid, who hasn't done anything for his franchise, is given that label, yet Markkanen, who is in a similar situation compared to McDavid rookie year, is "just a guy".

Way to show off the legendary HF double standard. Now, since people love to throw labels around here, what has McDavid actually done to be labeled a "franchise" player? Lead his team to yet another first overall draft pick? Maybe fold like clean clothes in the playoffs? Or is it because "by golly the scouts say he is"?

Please, do post more.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Markkanen is no Matthews/McDavid. Not sure why you keep bringing them up.

Markkanen isn't Channing Frye/ Raef LaFrenz. Not sure why those two were brought up in the first place.

 

[Morozov]

We have different logic. You don't like to make predictions about players future, but i do.

Everyone knows that he isn't franchise player yet, but he has all the potential to became one in future.

He has way more than that. Excellent athletic abilities & good ball-handling skills. Especially huge work ethic. Practiced days & weeks in -20 C.

Never been offended, never will be offended.

So now you do say he isn't a franchise player yet. But previously you've said he is a franchise player. That's the point of cobtention in this debate currently lol.

 

[Asiantuntija]

So now you do say he isn't a franchise player yet. But previously you've said he is a franchise player. That's the point of cobtention in this debate currently lol.

I thought it would be pretty obvious that we are talking about future. Lol exactly.

 

[Morozov]

Hmmm let's see;

McDavid sure didn't finish in the top 50 in his rookie season, am I right? Granted, he was injured, but then again, Markkanen played injured for almost an entire month.

Now, your trying to say "well McDavid done did lead the league", but then again, it wasn't his rookie year. Let's not even mention, oh, how McDavid is weak on faceoffs, doesn't hit, doesn't block shots, when the whole "franchise" tag had definition of "being able to do everything" which was a knock on Markkanen since, I'm told on these forums, he only shoots.

Wait, McDavid is elite offensively, but so is Markkanen. Both are Taylor made for their current respected sports, but, McDavid, who hasn't done anything for his franchise, is given that label, yet Markkanen, who is in a similar situation compared to McDavid rookie year, is "just a guy".

Way to show off the legendary HF double standard. Now, since people love to throw labels around here, what has McDavid actually done to be labeled a "franchise" player? Lead his team to yet another first overall draft pick? Maybe fold like clean clothes in the playoffs? Or is it because "by golly the scouts say he is"?

Please, do post more.

Because comparing where a guy who was injured finished overall is a fair comparison right lol? Ppg still much higher than 53rd.....

So will Markannen be the highest scorer in the league next year then? It doesn't matter if it was his first or second season the point is he has done it. Markannen has done nothing close to it.

15ppg is not elite offensively lol. You don't get to just lump the giy 53rd in hos league in scoring in the same boat as guy who has proven he can be the best scorer in his league

 

[Morozov]

I thought it would be pretty obvious that we are talking about future. Lol exactly.

Not really given some of the outlandish claims you make in here. It's a little late for you to try fall back on that card

 

[darko]

I thought it would be pretty obvious that we are talking about future. Lol exactly.

No you guys are saying "he's a franchise type player".

If you meant in the future you'd say "he has potential to be a franchise type player ".

The backpedal is strong with this one.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Not really given some of the outlandish claims you make in here. It's a little late for you to try fall back on that card

Go back to the page 11. My 4th message says clearly "Future superstar & franchise player".

 

[Asiantuntija]

No you guys are saying "he's a franchise type player".

If you meant in the future you'd say "he has potential to be a franchise type player ".

The backpedal is strong with this one.

No it's not. Whole discussion has been about his potential.

 

[Morozov]

You, and your tag partner, have both at times said he is a franchise player.

If you are going to say he could be say he could be.

When you spout nonsense like this is one of the best trades of all time people will assume you are genuinely saying he is a franchise player.

 

[darko]

Lauri is franchise player.

Hmmm.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Because comparing where a guy who was injured finished overall is a fair comparison right lol? Ppg still much higher than 53rd.....

So will Markannen be the highest scorer in the league next year then? It doesn't matter if it was his first or second season the point is he has done it. Markannen has done nothing close to it.

15ppg is not elite offensively lol. You don't get to just lump the giy 53rd in hos league in scoring in the same boat as guy who has proven he can be the best scorer in his league

Is that it now? So Magic Johnson wasn't a franchise player because he never led the league in scoring? Or Isiah Thomas?

Here's more of the HF double standard;

It's quite ok to give McDavid a pass because he was injured his rookie year, but it's looked down on Markkanen, who played[/] injured ]the end of November into December with a bad back....and still developed while doing it!!!

On top of it, only here on HF, can you compare two rookies from different sports, provide proof that both had similar rookie seasons, both have similar short comings at their over all games, yet the blind eye is squarely focused on one and one only because, well let's throw out the memes;

One was drafted first overall- (even tho the other should have never fell to seven and from the looks of it should have gone first OA)

One is given a litany of excuses and memes as to why his scoring is down this year- ( while the same excuse could be used for the other and his 15 ppg average and could be debated his team is far much worse then the others)

One averages a ppg- ( while a 15 ppg average can be disputed that's around a ppg average)

One gets a pass for not being good at anything but offense -( while the other is marked down from any type of labels when he not only leads his team in ppg, he also leads his team in a valuable defensive stat)

Ouch. But the biggest, most over looked thing is, while Connor McDavids hype has even the most casual Canadian/dedicated hockey fan blinded, he's not only leading the charge of his team missing the playoffs, he's double whammying them to yet another first overall pick.

But McDavid can only do so much, right? Hey, so can Markkanen. Which is funny considering he has become "the guy" for the Bulls while being on a much worse team the McDavid ever has been on during his professional career.

But, let's not base that off stats, basing it off of the eye test alone, considering I've watched every Bulls game this year and haven't relied on Sportcenter package montages.

And before the hockey masses start with their "how dare you", Markkanen was heavily hyped just as much as McDavid as a youngster. Everybody in Canada knew of McDavid and everyone in Finland knew of Markkanen.

In the states on both accounts, nobody cared. Nobody.

It's just LM made them stop and take notice. Still waiting on McDavid to flip the switch. And I get it, that's some heavy stuff to comprehend, but it's the truth.

Bulls fans, with LM want a top five pick but it's looking hopeless because of Markkanens impact this year. Oilers fans wish they had it that rough, eh?[/I]

 

[Morozov]

Is that it now? So Magic Johnson wasn't a franchise player because he never led the league in scoring? Or Isiah Thomas?

Here's more of the HF double standard;

It's quite ok to give McDavid a pass because he was injured his rookie year, but it's looked down on Markkanen, who played[/] injured ]the end of November into December with a bad back....and still developed while doing it!!!

On top of it, only here on HF, can you compare two rookies from different sports, provide proof that both had similar rookie seasons, both have similar short comings at their over all games, yet the blind eye is squarely focused on one and one only because, well let's throw out the memes;

One was drafted first overall- (even tho the other should have never fell to seven and from the looks of it should have gone first OA)

One is given a litany of excuses and memes as to why his scoring is down this year- ( while the same excuse could be used for the other and his 15 ppg average and could be debated his team is far much worse then the others)

One averages a ppg- ( while a 15 ppg average can be disputed that's around a ppg average)

One gets a pass for not being good at anything but offense -( while the other is marked down from any type of labels when he not only leads his team in ppg, he also leads his team in a valuable defensive stat)

Ouch. But the biggest, most over looked thing is, while Connor McDavids hype has even the most casual Canadian/dedicated hockey fan blinded, he's not only leading the charge of his team missing the playoffs, he's double whammying them to yet another first overall pick.

But McDavid can only do so much, right? Hey, so can Markkanen. Which is funny considering he has become "the guy" for the Bulls while being on a much worse team the McDavid ever has been on during his professional career.

But, let's not base that off stats, basing it off of the eye test alone, considering I've watched every Bulls game this year and haven't relied on Sportcenter package montages.

And before the hockey masses start with their "how dare you", Markkanen was heavily hyped just as much as McDavid as a youngster. Everybody in Canada knew of McDavid and everyone in Finland knew of Markkanen.

In the states on both accounts, nobody cared. Nobody.

It's just LM made them stop and take notice. Still waiting on McDavid to flip the switch. And I get it, that's some heavy stuff to comprehend, but it's the truth.

Bulls fans, with LM want a top five pick but it's looking hopeless because of Markkanens impact this year. Oilers fans wish they had it that rough, eh?[/I]

At what point did I say that was the requirement? Oh nowhere you're just making up more rubbish to argue against to pretend you're on top here but fooling nobody except your tag partner.

Who is looking down on Markannen doing that? Provide examples or is it more crap you're making up.

One has proven he can be the highest scorer in his league over a full season. One has proven he can be the 53rd best over half a season lol.

It seems you have some big issues with McDavid, maybe take it to the main board I couldn't care less about him.

No, you can't argue 15ppg is equivalent to ppg lol. Currently 27 people are at ppg in the NHL, including guys who have played 5 and 2 games. Far cry from 53. Most won't even sustain it, last year only 11 did it come end of season, including two guys who played 1 game.

What ppeopl hype in America is so far removed from the point, just seems to be another thing you're bitter about lol.

 

[kanuck87]

I'm not really sure I see Markkanen turning into a superstar. At this point, he's still mostly just a spot-up shooter on offense with some 1-on-1 skills. He's shown some flashes of brilliance, but that should be expected.

Would need to see him show a lot more refinement and variety on offense before I would call him a future franchise player. Not saying he won't get there, but it's way too premature to classify him as a future franchise player just based on what he's done so far.