Confirmed Signing with Link: [CHI] G Petr Mrazek signs extension with the Blackhawks (2 years, $4.25M AAV)

[AcerComputer]

For as much as this board hates the Blackhawks, posters here sure do wanna see them acquire assets and not sign 'bad' contracts.

Never knew this site was so hospitable.

When Burke Acquired Kessel for two 1st and 2nd, everyone was scratching their heads, because you had a last place team making moves as if they were a perennial playoff team. You have to know where you are in the life cycle of your team. CHI right now needs to remain a bad team for a couple more years and collect high picks and develop their young players. ala the ARZ model.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Is Mrazek really playing that much better? They’re clearly trying to burn cap for 2 years by overpaying him, Foligno and Dickinson. With Campbell they’d pick up assets

Tell me you haven't watched a Hawks game without saying it. (And I don't blame you a bit - their a AHL level team right now.). And I agree that the Hawks paid a premium for those guys - but that's a combination of relatively short term contract to maintain flexiblity and the Hawks being at the bottom of the league. Those contracts won't keep the Hawks from doing anything that they want to do in the future, which is the important fact.

Your post is a perfect example of the length some fans will go to in order to justify a team's poor asset management

WTF are you talking about? Hawks have already gotten 2nd round DP's for taking guys that people are now ripping them for re-signing (Mrazek and Dickenson). The Hawks have a ton of cap room, assuming ownership is still good with spending real $'s to stockpile draft capital, if they want to take on a bad contract like Campbell, In the next 3 years the Hawks already have 12 picks in the top 2 rounds. They moved on from guys a Debrincat at the height of his value. From an asset management perspective they are doing great.

From an actual roster perspective they're terrible. Legit NHL'ers they were hoping to fill out the roster this year have gotten hurt/cut (Hall, Anathasiou, Johnson, Perry, etc.) and they're really talent light. That's why I'm OK with paying a premium for guys like Foligno, Dickinson & Mrazek.

The fact that anyone can say "Should take Campbell and assets instead of Mrazek" with a straight face is amazing to me. One guy is struggling to get starts in the AHL and is mentally "shot", and the other guy is delivering better than league average goaltending on a team starting 3 rookie blueliners and guys like Tinordi/Zaitsev getting minutes.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

They can still take Campbell if they want to. The payment has to make sense.

Hawks have so much flexibility as they move forward, it is really refreshing.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

When Burke Acquired Kessel for two 1st and 2nd, everyone was scratching their heads, because you had a last place team making moves as if they were a perennial playoff team. You have to know where you are in the life cycle of your team. CHI right now needs to remain a bad team for a couple more years and collect high picks and develop their young players. ala the ARZ model.

Agree with everything you said here. The point that Hawks fans are trying to make is that while the team is currently really bad, we hope they continue to compete. Because when you stop competing and get used to losing - it's REALLY hard to get that back. For the Hawks, it's not worth it to move guys who are successful in a bad situation for marginal assets in the hope that you can replace them with other guys when a significant % of those signings don't work out, and the Hawks have a ton of cap room.

This past offseason Sprong,Pius Suter,Duchene, Tarasenko, Wheeler, Van Riemsdyk, Quick, Ghostisbhere, Bjugstad, Kerfoot, Zucker, Lyon, and Blueger. All signed for 2 years or less and that's not including potential trades where teams get rid of good players for a cheap price since they have to shed salary.

"Special circumstance" guys who wouldn't want to sign with the Hawks: Duchene, Tarasenko, Wheeler.

Guys who signed for similar $'s to the Hawks signings: Ghostibehere, Zucker, Kerfoot

Reclamation Projects/"just a guy": Sprong, Suter, Quick, Blueger, Bjustad

There is confirmation bias in your post - you list a bunch of guys who signed and were successful this year. One - some of them are successful because they signed by a good team and put in a good situation (Duchene, JVR) which they wouldn't have been on the Hawks roster. And for every Sprong there an equal number of UFA "filler" guys who go somewhere and bomb.

 

[LesCanadiens]

So now Jake Allens value just rose from nothing, to almost nothing.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How Discussions About the Hawks Cap Management Tend to Go:



Bart: I just think the Hawks should be using cap space to acquire additional picks

Lisa: That's what acquiring Mrazek initially was for...

Bart: But is that really enough to give the Hawks the assets they'll need for the rebuild, hmm?

Lisa: They also acquired Dickinson, and Zaitsev, and Bailey...

Bart: Oh Hawks fans, maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, the important thing is the Hawks NEED to be acquiring more 2nd round picks

Lisa: They have 8 in the next three drafts!

Bart: Well maybe they should have 9

 

[WiHockeyGuy]

Foligno, Dickinson, and Mrazek all locked up. Nice job to keep their best veteran performers around for a couple of season while the youngins develop.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Does Chicago not realize they can get better players during Ufa at that price point, like they've done this multiple times, I don't understand what's the point of overpaying for mediocre talent when they can get draft capital for these players, and then flip these picks next season or the season after to improve their team. Like I get 1 or 2 players but it seems to be a weird pattern, heck they could even utilize cap space by acquiring bad expiring contracts and get draft picks alongside with it, besides retaining players who won't do much for them.

Good luck getting a veteran goalie with a top 20 or so save percentage in the league at this price with only 2 years of term. Not to mention, the Blackhawks had to overpay this past offseason to attract veterans.

There is a shortage of NHL goalies with more teams moving towards tandems. It's been talked about how even getting a fringe NHL goalie without giving up a good draft pick is difficult. There is a shortage.

4M is like the minimum wage for a UFA goalie who can play 41+ games and is established.

They got Mrazek without term. If he stinks again, he is gone in 2 years. They are very clearly trying to stabilize their team because they got Bedard really early in the rebuild and they aren't reasonably able to build a contender yet. They are aggressively re-signing their veterans to shorter term deals to keep the team stable around Bedard. You can't look at their contracts and frame them as good or bad based on how they would fit in with the average team's cap structure because the Blackhawks are in a unique situation.

 

[Neutrinos]

Well thank you for your retort, I guess...

With respect, I thought your points were pretty silly, and not worth discussing...

"They're loaded with picks"

So... do they have too many? Should they give some back?

If you're walking down the street, and you see a couple of 20 dollar bills on the ground, do you not pick them up because you've already got several in your wallet?

Picks & prospects are going to be far more instrumental to the future and continued success of the Blackhawks than Mrazek, Dickinson, and Foligno will

 

[WarriorofTime]

With respect, I thought your points were pretty silly, and not worth discussing...

"They're loaded with picks"

So... do they have too many? Should they give some back?

If you're walking down the street, and you see a couple of 20 dollar bills on the ground, do you not pick them up because you've already got several in your wallet?

Picks & prospects are going to be far more instrumental to the future and continued success of the Blackhawks than Mrazek, Dickinson, and Foligno will

There is a finite number of contracts and AHL roster spots. How many picks is enough? You could theoretically always say "sure, X is nice, but X+1 is better", it doesn't matter what number X is.

You are thinking of it like a video game with "auto-sim", there's a human element involved. You place zero emphasis on continuity, showing young players that good performing veterans are rewarded, locker room stability and culture building.

That is fine if that's your perspective, but I don't think it's reflective of the real world. Bedard sees everything that goes on. What message does it send to say "hey, these guys that have performed well and worked hard, they gotta go, we don't have enough picks yet because we aren't quite sure about all the young guys in the room today. You know how bad we are today, well we got at least two more years before we can start thinking about being something less than that, so just focus on your points and don't worry about other stuff. We'll replace those guys out the door with guys that nobody wants and don't want to be here."

 

[CallMeShaft]

With respect, I thought your points were pretty silly, and not worth discussing...

"They're loaded with picks"

So... do they have too many? Should they give some back?

If you're walking down the street, and you see a couple of 20 dollar bills on the ground, do you not pick them up because you've already got several in your wallet?

Picks & prospects are going to be far more instrumental to the future and continued success of the Blackhawks than Mrazek, Dickinson, and Foligno will

There are diminishing returns when it comes to continually adding 2nds and 3rds. Sure, I'd like more of them, but the more you have, the harder it is to sign and develop all of them.

The Hawks need stable veteran guys for the kids. I cannot begin to describe how much Foligno has helped acclimate guys like Bedard. I want that to continue, not to be replaced with a different guy next season.

And it's nice to have stable goaltending with Mrazek. He's not elite, but he's not going to make every minor mistake guys like Vlasic and Korchinski make end up in the back of the net.

I'm all for taking bad cap back. Signing these guys doesn't change that. But if it happens, I don't care for the notion that the Hawks should be taking back guys for any little asset they can get. If they're $20m under the floor, it's a lot harder to pick and choose as opposed to getting whatever you can to be cap compliant.

 

[Sinbad]

CHI should have traded for Campbell and gotten a significant asset rather than commit this much cap to a below average goalie.

What’s stopping them from still doing this and running with a tandem of Mrazek and Campbell next season? Chicago still has roughly $40m in cap space available for next season.

People hating on these contracts and calling it poor cap management are clueless. Handing out a few overpays to players they know, players who have embraced the rebuild and enjoy their roles ensures they don’t have to go out and seriously overpay on a long-term deal for a FA just to hit the cap floor. In two years these deals for Foligno, Dickinson and Mrazek are off the books just in time for extensions to Bedard and Korchinski to kick in.

 

[Sinbad]

With respect, I thought your points were pretty silly, and not worth discussing...

"They're loaded with picks"

So... do they have too many? Should they give some back?

If you're walking down the street, and you see a couple of 20 dollar bills on the ground, do you not pick them up because you've already got several in your wallet?

Picks & prospects are going to be far more instrumental to the future and continued success of the Blackhawks than Mrazek, Dickinson, and Foligno will

So the only way to acquire more picks is to trade your veterans?

What if I’m walking down the street and someone comes up to me and says “if you take this $5 bill that I no longer want I will throw in another $20 for free”.

The Hawks have to hit the cap floor, signing some of these short term overpays goes a long way to achieving this goal. It also allows Chicago to pick and choose which $5 bills they want to accept; and get a free $20; instead of paying or overpaying players to get to the cap floor.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If you're walking down the street, and you see a couple of 20 dollar bills on the ground, do you not pick them up because you've already got several in your wallet?

What about a penny? You're richer if you pick the penny up, as you now have $X+.01 instead of $X... but do you actually pick it up? Where are you gonna keep the penny? Is it just gonna be more of a hassle to convert the penny into value? Is the extremely small marginal increase in wealth even worth the additional 5 seconds it will take to reach your destination due to the time you spent picking up the penny? You probably walk by unless you're extremely poor and desperate for even a penny's worth of impact on your wealth.

There is always an opportunity cost. In this case, the opportunity cost is losing having a goaltender to keep the bad team into games so the team is engaged, a good veteran in the lockerroom to help build the culture of the team that will outlive his specific tenure, etc. That's a bit more of an opportunity cost than the time to pick up the $20 bills, especially for a team already loaded with $20 bills (second round picks).

 

[Space umpire]

When Burke Acquired Kessel for two 1st and 2nd, everyone was scratching their heads, because you had a last place team making moves as if they were a perennial playoff team. You have to know where you are in the life cycle of your team. CHI right now needs to remain a bad team for a couple more years and collect high picks and develop their young players. ala the ARZ model.

You don’t know where the Hawks are in their “life cycle”.
Prior to the last draft THN rated the Hawk prospect pool as 5th best. Then they added Bedard, Moore, Misiak, Lardis, Kanterov and Gajan.
And they have 8 picks in the 1st 2 rounds over the next 2 drafts.

Players from that 5th best pool are already coming into the NHL. Many are 1 - 2 years away. Guys from this draft (other than Bedard will get raised right and be coming aboard in 2-3 years.
You don’t follow then so you’re not really aware but the tank has been strong for 2 years . The prospect pool is solid. They are filling it out with Character guys. They play the right way and (so far) every “kid” brought up has played with that same attitude.
They are past the suck on purpose stage.
The goal is to build a team that is both talented and works their asses off.
Maybe if your team had done the same you wouldn’t have a roster full of p***yes who can’t deal with physical playoff action.