TSN: Cheveldayoff: Playoff Success Not A Given (see mod warning in OP)

[Board Bard]

Who stated they should be absolved? How about just properly assessed?

Okay, check back in two and a half years.

 

[Bartho]

They you're not reading it properly. A GM who hasn't managed to assess his team after two and a half years, and needs to bring someone else in to help him finish the job, is a real dummy.

New coach + New systems = New assessment.
Perhaps you're the one with poor reading comprehension.

 

[Whileee]

I think there is a happy middle ground being reached here -everyone acknowledging that nobodies perfect & that Chevy makes mistakes too. The challenge I see is for Chevy to acknowledge that he makes mistakes as well & be ready to reverse the ship should we be approaching an iceberg. In the past, I find he has been quite reluctant to change course once a mistake has been made (the best example I can cite is his unwillingness to bring in a suitable challenger to Pavs once it was apparent he was not performing up to his big contract -- yes he finally brought in Hutch but that was 3 years later & Hutch was just a rookie so that was hardly a serious challenge).

One other comment for clarity re: not signing Stemp & Tlusty. The mistake was not so much that he didn't sign one of those guys, its who he signed instead (Hali & Peluso). Its been pointed out by others, but imagine this team with Stemp & Tlusty as our depth players rather then Hali & Peluso -- night & day difference right.

The beauty of having Stemp & Tlusty would be that it would be that much tougher for our good prospects to crack the line-up until the injuries started -- as they always do.

So we'd start the season with a dang good line-up that included 1-2 rooks, and when injuries or poor play of some vets happened, other rooks would be called up. That to me is the ultimate win-win

I don't mind balanced discussion, pointing out weaknesses or concerns, but we actually have a thread titled "A summer of disappointment and incompetence?" Imagine the firestorm if someone put up a thread titled "a summer of elation and brilliance". This team hit 99 points in the Central and then nailed another draft, to pile on top of one of the best prospect pools in the league.

Peluso is not a "depth" player, he's an enforcer. Maurice wants one of those on his roster, and he's one of the best in the league at that. Peluso and Tlusty/Stempniak are not interchangeable.

Halischuk is on a two-way contract. I doubt that either Stemp or Tlusty would have taken that and been willing to play for the Moose. He's in another category.

 

[Gm0ney]

Who stated they should be absolved? How about just properly assessed?

Say I get a speeding ticket for going 62 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. Is it a valid excuse to say "other people speed too!"? Or is saying that other people speed just a way to 'properly assess' the legality of my speeding?

Say the Pavelec deal is a mistake - can we to point to another GM making a mistake - say the Dave Bolland deal - and use that to mitigate any criticism of Chevy, because see? Toronto did it too! Does that make it any less of a mistake? As a bonus, you get 100s of other GMs over the entire history of the NHL to cherry pick the mistake you want to compare Chevy's to! Remember when Fergie traded Babych for Neufeld? So, we're lucky it's only 5 years of Pavelec!

It was a mistake 2 and 3 seasons ago. Last season, it was not a mistake, and actual ended the seasons as a value contract.

So we need to assign grades on contracts year-to-year? Why not game-to-game? Shot-to-shot?

How do you feel about Olli Jokinen's deal with the Jets? 'Bad' in year 1 then 'Ok' in year 2 for a total rank of 'Meh'?

No difference between the multitude of long term deal signed over the past 20 years. Poor value in the first half, solid value in the second half, happens all the time.

Do you think you could cite, say, 10 examples of contracts that were poor in the first half and solid in the second half over the last 20 years?

When it is clearly a mistake, it is bad value for the entire duration of that contract.

If Pavs has another season at or above average, followed by another, the contract cannot be classified as a mistake anymore. to be determined.

But labeling it as a clear mistake is illogical, as it is clearly not over.

Your read of the situation is as opinion based as mine. Your assertion that the return was excellent is also an opinion and not fact. You know you can't make an opinion a fact just by declaring it so? That's a fact, not an opinion, btw.

Sure, this is true. In time, we will be able to properly assess this deal and come to a definitive conclusion. Opinion of media seems to favor it as being a solid deal for us, but time will tell.

Ah, we run into a bit of prior cognitive dissonance here: a couple of posts earlier you're arguing that it's a 'fact' that the Kane deal was a huge win for Chevy, and in this post you've spent 100 words saying we can't assess the value of a contract until it's end...

What decision specifically did he take 5 years to make?

How do you know that the entire 5 past years, Chevy has scrutinized on what to do with Kane? You don't of course.

February 6, 2015 - Evander Kane's agent Craig Oster on Kane asking for a trade: "It’s something that Kevin (Cheveldayoff) and Evander have addressed multiple times in the past several years, and I’ll leave it at that".

I only said "years" to make a decision not specifically 5 years - the 5 you saw was in relation to the number of paragraphs you'd written about decisiveness or something.

The past 4 seasons Chevy's decision was to keep Kane, work with him, and try to get the most out of a young talented player. So, ya, Chevy decided to keep Kane, which is a DECISION.

Just because that decision changed, does not mean he waited on it for 5 seasons.

Ok, so we know that Chevy refused to trade an unhappy player for "several years". You're right - that is a decision. Not a particularly good one, but the early consensus on the Kane deal is that it ended up not hurting the team (aside from, you know, any bad blood caused by keeping an unhappy player on the team or maybe maximizing Kane's trade value).

If you honestly believe that Chevy is a indecisive GM, twiddling his thumbs in hopes that a sign of some sort will come flashing in the sky, well, have fun with that.

Chevy is a smart GM, one that does not make moves for the sake of. You can try and make this out as a negative, but it actually is positive, unless you believe knee jerk reactions make for the best moves.

Yes, that's what I'm saying: knee jerk reactions make for the best moves. And by 'knee jerk' I mean 'less than 4.5 years'.

 

[Hunter368]

Good discussions.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I can agree with both statements above. If Pavs can back up last season with 2 more solid seasons, his contract is not a mistake. If not, it can be classified as a bad contract.

Kane Bogo deal is to be determined as well, albeit, I believe at worst this will be a scratch deal that worked well for both teams, our just a bit better.

Fair enough. Wait for the results. TBH I don't expect Pav to have another good season but I really do hope he proves me wrong. The Kane/Bogo deal I am on the fence over. It could turn out very well, very badly or, more likely somewhere in between.

 

[White Out 403*]

still not sold on chevy. i think he's had some very smart people advising him how to draft and that's his only real claim to success so far. that being said, we made playoffs last year so im willing to see how things shake out this upcoming season.

 

[Whileee]

still not sold on chevy. i think he's had some very smart people advising him how to draft and that's his only real claim to success so far. that being said, we made playoffs last year so im willing to see how things shake out this upcoming season.

Don't forget how he was forced into including Bogo in the Kane trade to get Myers, and how he fluked into hiring Maurice, and signed Perreault. Blame Chevy for his mistakes, but at least give him a bit of credit for the positives. Very few posters here gave the Jets any shot at the playoffs last year, let alone 99 points. You'd think that might give some reason for pause...

 

[Hunter368]

Don't forget how he was forced into including Bogo in the Kane trade to get Myers, and how he fluked into hiring Maurice, and signed Perreault. Blame Chevy for his mistakes, but at least give him a bit of credit for the positives. Very few posters here gave the Jets any shot at the playoffs last year, let alone 99 points. You'd think that might give some reason for pause...

Very few hockey experts & media gave the Jets a chance of making the playoffs. Nothing to do with just posters here, it was most of the hockey world picking us to fail.

Let's see if it was a one year overachieving or can they repeat. I'm well aware of their top 5 possession numbers as a positive sign, but proof is in the pudding, let's see if it was a fluke/one season wonder or the real deal that they maintain. Key piece of that is can we get above average goaltending again, if we can't I don't see us repeating. IMO

 

[Whileee]

Very few hockey experts & media gave the Jets a chance of making the playoffs. Nothing to do with just posters here, it was most of the hockey world picking us to fail.

Let's see if it was a one year overachieving or can they repeat. I'm well aware of their top 5 possession numbers as a positive sign, but proof is in the pudding, let's see if it was a fluke/one season wonder or the real deal that they maintain. Key piece of that is can we get above average goaltending again, if we can't I don't see us repeating. IMO

The key for the Jets will be their special teams. If they hadn't given such a pp advantage last year they would have cruised into the playoffs. There were NHL team sources that said the Jets were underrated last year. They carry more weight than media, who revolve around Toronto and opinions from that sphere.

 

[DK59]

still not sold on chevy. i think he's had some very smart people advising him how to draft and that's his only real claim to success so far. that being said, we made playoffs last year so im willing to see how things shake out this upcoming season.

Chevy's job as GM is to give is to build a strong organization that is full of very smart people and to provide those people with clear direction on what the critical objectives are to achieve success. It is interesting that the people you refer to as being very smart have had a lot of success drafting here in Winnipeg but in Atlanta the same people had a very poor draft record. With drafting being identified as a critical success factor for the Jets what Chevy has done is given the scouting department clear direction on the types of players they are looking for and provided them with the resources they need to be very thorough in their evaluation of players. The results speak for themselves.

One thing I know for sure is that Chevy very definitely has a plan and he is very disciplined and methodical in the way he executes that plan. I think this disciplined approach is a major source of frustration for some people because it is human nature to want to speed the process up but Chevy rarely goes down that path. We are now entering the phase of his plan where he is looking for his draft and develop strategy to really start bearing fruit. Over the next year or two we should expect to see a major transition to the new wave of younger players that are now knocking on the door. We should all be excited to see this because this is what Chevy has been building toward all along. The success of this transition will go a long way in determining how Chevy is ultimately viewed as a GM.

Chevy is absolutely right when he says that playoff success is not a given this year. We continue to be in a very strong division and with the young players likely to be injected into our lineup this year I firmly believe that Chevy views this year as a transitional year. Clearly he wants to have success this year but what he is really building toward is next year and beyond.

 

[truck]

Chevy's job as GM is to give is to build a strong organization that is full of very smart people and to provide those people with clear direction on what the critical objectives are to achieve success. It is interesting that the people you refer to as being very smart have had a lot of success drafting here in Winnipeg but in Atlanta the same people had a very poor draft record. With drafting being identified as a critical success factor for the Jets what Chevy has done is given the scouting department clear direction on the types of players they are looking for and provided them with the resources they need to be very thorough in their evaluation of players. The results speak for themselves.

One thing I know for sure is that Chevy very definitely has a plan and he is very disciplined and methodical in the way he executes that plan. I think this disciplined approach is a major source of frustration for some people because it is human nature to want to speed the process up but Chevy rarely goes down that path. We are now entering the phase of his plan where he is looking for his draft and develop strategy to really start bearing fruit. Over the next year or two we should expect to see a major transition to the new wave of younger players that are now knocking on the door. We should all be excited to see this because this is what Chevy has been building toward all along. The success of this transition will go a long way in determining how Chevy is ultimately viewed as a GM.

Chevy is absolutely right when he says that playoff success is not a given this year. We continue to be in a very strong division and with the young players likely to be injected into our lineup this year I firmly believe that Chevy views this year as a transitional year. Clearly he wants to have success this year but what he is really building toward is next year and beyond.

I don't think it is the discipline or methodical approach that frustrate people so much as the annual multi-year extensions to some of the least effective players on the team. Specifically... Slater, Pavelec, Thorburn, Stuart and Peluso. Adding better goaltending could gave been achieved years ago. Signing somebody better than Thor - so he doesn't have to spend day most of the year on the third line should be easy too. It also hasn't been done in previous years.
.

 

[DK59]

I don't think it is the discipline or methodical approach that frustrate people so much as the annual multi-year extensions to some of the least effective players on the team. Specifically... Slater, Pavelec, Thorburn, Stuart and Peluso. Adding better goaltending could gave been achieved years ago. Signing somebody better than Thor - so he doesn't have to spend day most of the year on the third line should be easy too. It also hasn't been done in previous years.
.

If I recall correctly Chevy did make an effort in the previous off season to sign players like you are talking about but they chose other teams. Winnik and Stemniak come to mind but I could be wrong on that.

At the time the Slater signing actually made sense but after his injuries he was no longer the same player. And I do not have any problem with Thorburn playing on the 4th line. Clearly Thorburn playing on the 3rd line was testimony to the fact that we were lacking quality forward depth. As for Stuart I do see value in having a player like him in the line up but I do admit that the contract was probably 1 year too long.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Say I get a speeding ticket for going 62 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. Is it a valid excuse to say "other people speed too!"? Or is saying that other people speed just a way to 'properly assess' the legality of my speeding?

This is your analogy?

If I received 2 speeding tickets a year, while everyone in Manitoba averages 5 speeding tickets a year, you can state I speed, but not to the extent of the average Manitoban.

My wife can say I am an incompetent driver, but compared to the average driver, its just not true.

Say the Pavelec deal is a mistake - can we to point to another GM making a mistake - say the Dave Bolland deal - and use that to mitigate any criticism of Chevy, because see? Toronto did it too! Does that make it any less of a mistake? As a bonus, you get 100s of other GMs over the entire history of the NHL to cherry pick the mistake you want to compare Chevy's to! Remember when Fergie traded Babych for Neufeld? So, we're lucky it's only 5 years of Pavelec!

Its not a mistake because as of today, there are 2 years left on said contract, and at the midway point, it performed better than average.

You are calling it a mistake is based off of samples from 2 and 3 seasons ago, mine is based off the most recent season, last year. If he performs average or better this season and next, you lose one of the very few examples you have at your disposal to show Chevy's mistakes.

And as stated already, if Pavs performs just average, his salary when compared to other average starters in the league, will be a value contract. Not only will Pavs deal not be seen as a mistake, it will be seen as a solid deal.

So we need to assign grades on contracts year-to-year? Why not game-to-game? Shot-to-shot?

Is this confusing to you?

Basing your opinion on the most recent facts? When you sign someone to a 5 year deal, do you wait for the first season, base your opinion on only that, then discard the next 4 seasons.

OF COURSE YOU GRADE CONTRACTS YEAR TO YEAR. If Pavs puts up better than average numbers this season, not only is the contract decent, its a value deal with 2 years on it, at a lower wage than the average goalie's contract. You grade it,because if you want to move it, you understand what value it has.

How do you feel about Olli Jokinen's deal with the Jets? 'Bad' in year 1 then 'Ok' in year 2 for a total rank of 'Meh'?

Exactly, it was meh. It would have been Uggh had he kept preforming in the second season as he did in the first, but he raised the total value of the signing to Meh.

Do you think you could cite, say, 10 examples of contracts that were poor in the first half and solid in the second half over the last 20 years?

Since I do not want to waste a beautiful day looking up contracts, I will refrain. Ladd has improved the value of his deal, posting better numbers the last half of it, same with Buff. You must be aware of players posting their best numbers in a contract season? Working for the best "next" deal?

Ah, we run into a bit of prior cognitive dissonance here: a couple of posts earlier you're arguing that it's a 'fact' that the Kane deal was a huge win for Chevy, and in this post you've spent 100 words saying we can't assess the value of a contract until it's end...

Wow, I've painted myself into a corner, whatever should I do..... minus the fact we have games played last season, watching Myers and Staff help get us into the playoffs, and basically helped save the season, we have now seen Armia, Lemieux and we can put a name to the 1st round pick in Roslovic.

I am predicting it is going to be a win deal for us, and that when all three players develop, we will easily win this deal.

Please tell us why this deal will be a mistake for us?

February 6, 2015 - Evander Kane's agent Craig Oster on Kane asking for a trade: "It’s something that Kevin (Cheveldayoff) and Evander have addressed multiple times in the past several years, and I’ll leave it at that".

Yes, agents do not lie, ever, stand up people that will give you the coat off their backs.

For an agent wanting to have his player go elsewhere, this is soooooo confusing to me:

Evander Kane signed a 6 year / $31,500,000 contract with the Winnipeg Jets, including an annual average salary of $5,250,000. In 2015-16, Kane will earn a base salary of $6,000,000. Kane has a cap hit of $5,250,000.

I want out, but lets ink a contract that has me here for SIX MORE SEASONS

or this:

October 26, 2011: It didn’t take long for rumours to start that Kane wanted out of Winnipeg. In the first month of the season word started to spread that Kane was asking for a trade away from the Jets. Both the agent and the player unequivocally denied these allegations.

“No, I have not (asked for a trade). I guess people on social media come up with rumours,” Kane said to the Winnipeg Free Press at the time.

"I can't speak for anybody but myself. The story started on some blog. I haven't even read it. I don't know what to think. I haven't asked for a trade and I'm happy where I am and I expect to be here for a long time,"

only said "years" to make a decision not specifically 5 years - the 5 you saw was in relation to the number of paragraphs you'd written about decisiveness or something.

For someone wanting out, he sure was acting differently while he was here. The only comment you have is from his agent at a point where everything blew up and both parties knew it was over. The examples I showed happened prior to that.

Ok, so we know that Chevy refused to trade an unhappy player for "several years". You're right - that is a decision. Not a particularly good one, but the early consensus on the Kane deal is that it ended up not hurting the team (aside from, you know, any bad blood caused by keeping an unhappy player on the team or maybe maximizing Kane's trade value).

Soo, no we do not know that, its just you speculating as if its factual. Several seasons? Just showed that this is false, since he up'd for SIX SEASONS with the team he wanted out from.

Consensus is it hurt the team?

Hurt them so badly as it galvanized the team, they ended up making the playoffs, as well as adding 3 great prospects, a rookie of the year defensman, and a vet that stayed with us after his contract was over.

[mod]

, that's what I'm saying: knee jerk reactions make for the best moves. And by 'knee jerk' I mean 'less than 4.5 years'.

Listenting to your really weak, transparent examples, and since you have only a total of 3 things in your arsenal, you can have this 4.5 mystical timeline, as your big smear on chevy.

[mod]

 

[Gm0ney]

This is your analogy?

If I received 2 speeding tickets a year, while everyone in Manitoba averages 5 speeding tickets a year, you can state I speed, but not to the extent of the average Manitoban.

My wife can say I am an incompetent driver, but compared to the average driver, its just not true.

Oh, so your contention is that Chevy makes far fewer mistakes than the average GM. At a 2:5 ratio? Wow.

...Although to continue with the speeding ticket analogy, it's pretty tough to get speeding tickets when you never drive your car. Other GMs are out there in rush hour and Chevy takes it down to Waivers R Us once a year on a Sunday and manages to pick up a 74 in a 50 on a side street.

Its not a mistake because as of today, there are 2 years left on said contract, and at the midway point, it performed better than average.

You are calling it a mistake is based off of samples from 2 and 3 seasons ago, mine is based off the most recent season, last year. If he performs average or better this season and next, you lose one of the very few examples you have at your disposal to show Chevy's mistakes.

And as stated already, if Pavs performs just average, his salary when compared to other average starters in the league, will be a value contract. Not only will Pavs deal not be seen as a mistake, it will be seen as a solid deal.

It was a mistake because the deal was made even though there were many years of prior data on Pavelec that suggested he wasn't a good starter. It was further compounded by Chevy's lack of urgency to correct the situation by whatever means available: buyout, trade, free agency. To sign that contract was a mistake on day 1. To endure the first two years of it without doing anything more than the minimum - and just hoping that Pavelec (or the ECHL guy who had a great year) would blossom into this great goalie was insanity. It's too long to stand pat with terrible goaltending. I can't believe I'm even arguing this.

Basing your opinion on the most recent facts? When you sign someone to a 5 year deal, do you wait for the first season, base your opinion on only that, then discard the next 4 seasons.

OF COURSE YOU GRADE CONTRACTS YEAR TO YEAR. If Pavs puts up better than average numbers this season, not only is the contract decent, its a value deal with 2 years on it, at a lower wage than the average goalie's contract. You grade it,because if you want to move it, you understand what value it has.

Some contracts can be adjudged "crap" from very early on. Semin, Clarkson, Bolland, etc. The difference between Chevy and other GMs is that they're able to identify and remedy the situation in fairly short order. It's bat**** insanity to wait to the end of every contract before you can say whether it was a good deal or not. What's the thinking here? "Oh, Pavs is historically bad, on a bad contract and has played 2 terrible seasons, but let's not jump the gun here..." Madness!

Since I do not want to waste a beautiful day looking up contracts, I will refrain. Ladd has improved the value of his deal, posting better numbers the last half of it, same with Buff. You must be aware of players posting their best numbers in a contract season? Working for the best "next" deal?

Typically though, you wouldn't expect a James Wright to start putting up 20 goal seasons on the back end of a contract just because. Not that it couldn't happen, but it's a little crazy to base your decision making on the fact that once in a while a guy will turn it around. Even then, that's more likely when a player has a bad year and then bounces back...say Paul Stastny, who is coming off a bad year but has a long track record of success. I wouldn't say it's crazy to predict that he has a decent year this year. But Pavelec? League's worst goalie since forever has a good season and we should expect more?

Wow, I've painted myself into a corner, whatever should I do..... minus the fact we have games played last season, watching Myers and Staff help get us into the playoffs, and basically helped save the season, we have now seen Armia, Lemieux and we can put a name to the 1st round pick in Roslovic.

I am predicting it is going to be a win deal for us, and that when all three players develop, we will easily win this deal.

Please tell us why this deal will be a mistake for us?

I don't think I've claimed it will be a mistake - I was just pointing out your illogical double standard:

A) The statistical evidence of 8 years of Pavelec in the NHL, year 3 of 5 of a deal: "We can't evaluate properly!"
B) 6 months after Kane trade: "Greatest Trade In History!"

Yes, agents do not lie, ever, stand up people that will give you the coat off their backs.

"Any fact that disproves my point is clearly false!" [mod]

For an agent wanting to have his player go elsewhere, this is soooooo confusing to me:

Evander Kane signed a 6 year / $31,500,000 contract with the Winnipeg Jets, including an annual average salary of $5,250,000. In 2015-16, Kane will earn a base salary of $6,000,000. Kane has a cap hit of $5,250,000.

I want out, but lets ink a contract that has me here for SIX MORE SEASONS

Point 1: Signing a 6 year deal with the Jets as an RFA on the last day before a lockout that covers 2 UFA years but never mentions a No Trade Clause is PROOF that Kane never wanted to leave Winnipeg!

or this:

<a quote from October of 2011, just days after the debut of Jets 2.0>

Point 2: 5 years ago, a month after moving to Winnipeg, he denied asking for a trade!

For someone wanting out, he sure was acting differently while he was here.

Uh, I'm not sure if you were living under a rock after October 2011, but I believe there were some other developments in the Kane saga from late 2011-2014 that painted a somewhat different picture. I don't want to rehash it all here...maybe do a Google search...?

The only comment you have is from his agent at a point where everything blew up and both parties knew it was over. The examples I showed happened prior to that.

Lol! Your 'evidence' is a quote from 2011 and a contract he signed as an RFA in 2012. I guess all I have is a recent direct quote from someone who would know, and the events of 2012-2015 to back me up.

BTW: Oster doesn't gain anything by saying Kane wanted out for years, so I'm not sure what his motive would be for lying - maybe just to provide me with evidence?

Consensus is it hurt the team?

I understand it may difficult to see through the froth and rage spittle you're cooking up there, but if you read my post I said that "the early consensus on the Kane deal is that it ended up not hurting the team".

Listenting to your really weak, transparent examples, and since you have only a total of 3 things in your arsenal, you can have this 4.5 mystical timeline, as your big smear on chevy.

Again (as Chevy would say), declaring my arguments to be weak does not make them so. I'm spending most of my replies just pointing out the mistakes, logical flaws, inconsistencies and evidentiary weaknesses of your ramblings.

Now go home and get your ****ing shine box!

 

[surixon]

The Pavs contract is Chevy's worse move and it was a mistake given what Pavs had proven at the time of him signing his deal. Chevy looked inexperienced when dealing with savoy agent in Walsh holding the KHL card over his head. He made a mistake with that signing as Pavs played well below the value of his deal the first few years, bu greatly exceeded it last year.

Having said all that the market for starting goalies has changed over that time, Pavs is now the 26th highest goalie with regards to cap hit and as such now likely has some value on the market. That doesn't absolve Chevy of the deal in the first place, but it might make the decision not to waste resources using a compliance buyout on him last year seem smart if we can move Pavs for a draft choice post this year.

With regards to not trying to address the issue prior to Hutch, well I disagree.

-He has loaded up on NHL prospects via the draft/FA.
-He was in heavily on Raanta two summers ago. If I remember correctly he was one of the final 3 teams.
-He tried to get Bobwroski when he was on the market.

Those are the ones we know about, he could have been in on other goalies as well.

So if you want to criticize Chevy for not being able to seal the deal and get a better option until Hutch that is fair. But I believe it is not accurate to state that he sat on his hands and ignored or was bind to the issue. I am sure that he and the org knows exactly what they have in Pavs, I am sure that they are not happy with how that deal for the most part has turned out. But if Chipman doesn't want to utilize buyouts than Chevy was left with very few options to be rid of Pavs.

With regards to the depth player signings: I view the Peluso signing as a mistake and unnecessary. I would rather have just Thorborn in the 12-13 spot and would have brought back Stemp for one of the 4th line spots.

I am not as concerned about the Frolik loss as some as I don't believe non core assets should be given anymore than 3 year deals in a cap system. Would have been nice to get something for him, but I think Burmie will be a close enough replacement that losing Fro wont hurt us much.

So the biggest critiques I have of Chevy are pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

The Pavs contract and not being able to land a suitable replacement until this year.
Signing a goon to sit in the PB.

Letting a decent asset walk for nothing.

Most of those issues are on the verge of being corrected: We have excellent young goalies who will push Pavs to be better or push him out as soon as this year.

If our prospects are as ready as the team hopes the Peluso signing will be moot as he wont see the ice much. It will also make losing Frolik more palatable.

I reserve comment on Ladd and Buff until such a time that both players have been resolved one way or the other.

Simply put Chevy has made poor moves just like any other GM, but his poor moves other than Pavs have been relatively small nature. I.e not finding decent 4th line players. He has of yet not crippled the team with a garbage contract nor has he made a horrible knee jerk reaction trade ala Boston (Seguin and Hamilton). So while I think he can do better in some areas I think he has our ship steered pretty clearly in the right direction.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Pavs contract is Chevy's worse move and it was a mistake given what Pavs had proven at the time of him signing his deal. Chevy looked inexperienced when dealing with savoy agent in Walsh holding the KHL card over his head. He made a mistake with that signing as Pavs played well below the value of his deal the first few years, bu greatly exceeded it last year.

Having said all that the market for starting goalies has changed over that time, Pavs is now the 26th highest goalie with regards to cap hit and as such now likely has some value on the market. That doesn't absolve Chevy of the deal in the first place, but it might make the decision not to waste resources using a compliance buyout on him last year seem smart if we can move Pavs for a draft choice post this year.

With regards to not trying to address the issue prior to Hutch, well I disagree.

-He has loaded up on NHL prospects via the draft/FA.
-He was in heavily on Raanta two summers ago. If I remember correctly he was one of the final 3 teams.
-He tried to get Bobwroski when he was on the market.

Those are the ones we know about, he could have been in on other goalies as well.

So if you want to criticize Chevy for not being able to seal the deal and get a better option until Hutch that is fair. But I believe it is not accurate to state that he sat on his hands and ignored or was bind to the issue. I am sure that he and the org knows exactly what they have in Pavs, I am sure that they are not happy with how that deal for the most part has turned out. But if Chipman doesn't want to utilize buyouts than Chevy was left with very few options to be rid of Pavs.

With regards to the depth player signings: I view the Peluso signing as a mistake and unnecessary. I would rather have just Thorborn in the 12-13 spot and would have brought back Stemp for one of the 4th line spots.

I am not as concerned about the Frolik loss as some as I don't believe non core assets should be given anymore than 3 year deals in a cap system. Would have been nice to get something for him, but I think Burmie will be a close enough replacement that losing Fro wont hurt us much.

So the biggest critiques I have of Chevy are pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

The Pavs contract and not being able to land a suitable replacement until this year.
Signing a goon to sit in the PB.

Letting a decent asset walk for nothing.

Most of those issues are on the verge of being corrected: We have excellent young goalies who will push Pavs to be better or push him out as soon as this year.

If our prospects are as ready as the team hopes the Peluso signing will be moot as he wont see the ice much. It will also make losing Frolik more palatable.

I reserve comment on Ladd and Buff until such a time that both players have been resolved one way or the other.

Simply put Chevy has made poor moves just like any other GM, but his poor moves other than Pavs have been relatively small nature. I.e not finding decent 4th line players. He has of yet not crippled the team with a garbage contract nor has he made a horrible knee jerk reaction trade ala Boston (Seguin and Hamilton). So while I think he can do better in some areas I think he has our ship steered pretty clearly in the right direction.

I could argue some of your points. I'm not aware of Chevy being in on Raanta or Bobrovsky but I forget stuff. So I don't think he has tried hard enough to fix our goaltending but the end of that issue is in sight. I am PO'd about Frolik. It was a mistake, IMO but not one that we can't put behind us easily enough. I think we should have signed one of Stemp, Tlusty and it doesn't particularly matter which one. That contract went to Peluso for some reason, sigh (but why 2 years!).

Bottom line is that Chevy has made mistakes, maybe a lot of mistakes but everybody makes mistakes. The important thing is that the team continues to improve. A decent outcome with Ladd/Buff is really important. Right now it outweighs all those other things but assuming that is resolved satisfactorily I will say that I agree with the gist of your post. We are headed in the right direction.

 

[KingBogo]

I could argue some of your points. I'm not aware of Chevy being in on Raanta or Bobrovsky but I forget stuff. So I don't think he has tried hard enough to fix our goaltending but the end of that issue is in sight. I am PO'd about Frolik. It was a mistake, IMO but not one that we can't put behind us easily enough. I think we should have signed one of Stemp, Tlusty and it doesn't particularly matter which one. That contract went to Peluso for some reason, sigh (but why 2 years!).

Bottom line is that Chevy has made mistakes, maybe a lot of mistakes but everybody makes mistakes. The important thing is that the team continues to improve. A decent outcome with Ladd/Buff is really important. Right now it outweighs all those other things but assuming that is resolved satisfactorily I will say that I agree with the gist of your post. We are headed in the right direction.

Okay we all know why Peluso was signed. Unless Stemp and Tlusty spent the summer in a boxing ring they were not competing for the same role as Big Anthony. I've long ago made peace with the fact Maurice wants a league top face puncher at his disposal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Okay we all know why Peluso was signed. Unless Stemp and Tlusty spent the summer in a boxing ring they were not competing for the same role as Big Anthony. I've long ago made peace with the fact Maurice wants a league top face puncher at his disposal.

I know but the boss should have told him to make do with Thor. If they had to sign Peluso it should at least have been only 1 year. It should have been 2 way also but that is another story. It is what it is. Oh well.

 

[Sweech]

still not sold on chevy. i think he's had some very smart people advising him how to draft and that's his only real claim to success so far. that being said, we made playoffs last year so im willing to see how things shake out this upcoming season.

That's basically the GM job though, how well can you assess the talent of other talent evaluators and build a group of smart people/advisors around you.

 

[larmex99]

I know but the boss should have told him to make do with Thor. If they had to sign Peluso it should at least have been only 1 year. It should have been 2 way also but that is another story. It is what it is. Oh well.

The difference is that Thor is a face "punchee" rather than "puncher". There is a difference.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Pavs played well below the value of his deal the first few years, bu greatly exceeded it last year.

I don't think Pav's play greatly exceeded the value of his contracted deal last year. I think he finally earned one year of his salary, due to exceptionally strong play down the stretch.

No argument that he played well below the value of his deal in the first years. He was statistically the worst or second worse starting goaltender in the league. Regardless of contract, he really shouldn't even have been starting. In all sports, when you are the worst at something for so long, you get replaced.

 

[surixon]

I don't think Pav's play greatly exceeded the value of his contracted deal last year. I think he finally earned one year of his salary, due to exceptionally strong play down the stretch.

No argument that he played well below the value of his deal in the first years. He was statistically the worst or second worse starting goaltender in the league. Regardless of contract, he really shouldn't even have been starting. In all sports, when you are the worst at something for so long, you get replaced.

No arguments that he should be replaced. But a .920 sp is well above League average for the year, whereas his cap hit is below league average for starters so by that metric he provided more value for the deal.

 

[ps241]

The difference is that Thor is a face "punchee" rather than "puncher". There is a difference.

I don't think there is a big difference. Thor is a very game fighter who rarely gets blown out and always shows up. The win/loss type result of fights is vastly over rated IMO. If winning actually mattered then Brian McGrattan wouldn't struggle to stick in the NHL.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

No arguments that he should be replaced. But a .920 sp is well above League average for the year, whereas his cap hit is below league average for starters so by that metric he provided more value for the deal.

For starters (starting goaltenders), his sv% was 15th or 16th IIRC. That's not well above league average. That's in the middle of the pack.