Euro: Champions League Semifinals

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Ajacied

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Apr 6, 2002
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Barça during the Pep era had Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro and sometimes Thiago and/or Bojan starting, I think they fielded 8 youth products in the 2011 CL final which actually crazy (for this era) if you think about it

That is insane indeed, but Puyol, Pedro and Busquets are iffy. They all joined Barcelona at the age of 17. That still leaves 5 youth products (Valdes, Pique, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta) that set foot on the pitch that day. Pretty impressive.
 

Savant

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Looking it up, Liverpool has 4 academy players (someone correct me) on their roster.
I think that is about right, and that's really not a bad number for a top 4 PL team. Looking at the 23 man squad today,

Trent made team of the season at RB as a 20 year old and is in top 5 for assists in the PL, tied with Paul Pogba of all people (Callum Wilson too)

Brewster will be big in Klopp's plans next season. This was his knee recovery season, has started playing again and looks very good for youth team; but it not all the way back yet.

Kelleher is a 3rd string goalie who I believe has gotten capped by Ireland already.

Are we counting Gomez? Liverpool got him very young at Charlton, and he was the 2nd best CB in the PL when he was injured. Liverpool did a fair bit of development on him.

But yeah, either way for a team at the level is playing at, nothing to be ashamed of
 
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Chimaera

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I never said they don't spend, of course they do. Every team does at their own scale. The difference between them and big spending teams is that Ajax fields 5/6 youth players each and every game and they are complimented with about 5 players who were well scouted. Rarely costed the latter them more than 10M or even 5M. They absolutely broke the bank for Daley Blind at 17M, the highest paid fee in Ajax history and he was their own youth product. Name me the last team which fielded 6 youth players at these stages of the Champions League?

But Ajax can't afford to drop double digits on someone only to see him turning into a flop. They have to be very cautious and wise with their money and scout their targets much more vigorously than big teams do. Not to mention they have excellent scouts in south America and Scandinavia. When they spend money on someone, it usually ends up as a good buy. And hats of to them since most are still very young and have a lot of question marks to answer. They are having great success this season with results and money income. They want to stay competitive so I foresee some more money spending and perhaps misjudgements more so now than ever. Magallan might be the most recent example.

Being the richest club in their domestic league, it's easy to attract Eredivisie talent. I'm the first to say that they don't deserve much credit for that. They also have strong name, so bigger talents consider Ajax more easily over other teams and don't need much persuasion. Yet they also scout very actively in the 9-12 age group, which is their bread and butter. See who might have that Ajax DNA and develop them further within their own philosophy. Only 10% of the academy is scouted from 16 years or up. In the end, 86% goes on to have a professional career, not necessarily with Ajax of course. So that sets them apart from pretty much every big spending team already, or pretty much any other team. A fine example is how Ajax is up there with the best teams in the world on a consistent base, if not dominating, international youth tournaments in every age group.

I didn't say you said they don't spend. I understand you know that more than pretty much anyone. But there's a bit of a narrative going around that they're a tiny club. Really, with their reach, they're not a tiny club. They're a pretty big club, and relative to some of their opposition as you say, is some of what allows them to develop and get players they wouldn't be able to get if they were a smaller side. Their reputation for developing players is earned, but it also fuels itself when they're able to snag some of the best young players from around the world to do it. It's an avalanche thing where once the ball is rolling it keeps going. I mean, they've been able to use their scouting and tactical/developmental ability to get young players for decades. I can remember seeing ads for Ajax camps and scouting when I used to play soccer as a young kid 2-3 decades ago and they've done that and more all over the world for years. Sure, some of them are just a side hustle, where they can get a fee for putting their name on a training center or a summer camp for kids, but they still have branded development and the networks that come from it.

What they're doing is quite impressive, and it's sad to see that they're going to probably lose much of this generation of what could be 3 or 4 massive talents, and then a few very good players.

I have all the respect in the world for what they're doing, and I hope more clubs can improve and step up.
 
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Chimaera

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Going back to actual match discussion, I don't know what to think about this.

I just hope they score a goal and don't concede a bunch. If they could manage to come back with an away goal in a 2-1 or even a 1-1, I would be excited for the Anfield return.

I still think with Messi, you have to think they're the favorites (though I think Suarez will be the one to score, and I hope he celebrates), but this Liverpool side should make anyone a bit uncertain. They're one of the best in Europe for a reason. On any day, they can put 2 or 3 past any side. Even at the Camp Nou.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

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Going back to actual match discussion, I don't know what to think about this.

I just hope they score a goal and don't concede a bunch. If they could manage to come back with an away goal in a 2-1 or even a 1-1, I would be excited for the Anfield return.

I still think with Messi, you have to think they're the favorites (though I think Suarez will be the one to score, and I hope he celebrates), but this Liverpool side should make anyone a bit uncertain. They're one of the best in Europe for a reason. On any day, they can put 2 or 3 past any side. Even at the Camp Nou.
Why do you want Suárez to celebrate?
 

Power Man

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Sep 30, 2008
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Saw that video of a Liverpool fan pushing a local into a fountain

That Liverpool fan is 70 years old

Part of me wants Barcelona to crush Liverpool just because of those clowns
 

YNWA14

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Saw that video of a Liverpool fan pushing a local into a fountain

That Liverpool fan is 70 years old

Part of me wants Barcelona to crush Liverpool just because of those clowns
Every fanbase has them, unfortunately. These ones were just caught on video.
 

East Coast Bias

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Feb 28, 2014
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into the fountain you go

YNWA alone lads. It's all love.

you may never walk alone, but you're going to swim alone.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
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It’s funny that when it’s ones own fans you automatically see every fan base has them. Yeah, we get it but honestly it’s getting tiresome.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
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It’s funny that when it’s ones own fans you automatically see every fan base has them. Yeah, we get it but honestly it’s getting tiresome.
I agree. It's stupid and should be taken care of. I'm even more disappointed that it seems like nobody else there did anything about it.

The reason people say that when its their own fans is because people are quick to say 'LFC fans' and start talking about wanting the team to fail because of it, etc. instead of seeing it for what it is. It really has nothing to do with Liverpool or who they're fans of...they're just shit people.
 

Chimaera

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Why do you want Suárez to celebrate?

I think the 'don't celebrate against your old club' thing is silly. He's a passionate player. If he scores a great goal, in a Semi-final, it's a big moment in his career. If he wants to run around and towards his teammates / supporters and pistolero it up, good. He should. He's not rubbing it in Liverpool's face. He was probably one of the most talented players to ever lace them up for Liverpool, and while bonkers, he helped drag a pretty rubbish Liverpool side to further than it had before. He's done right by Liverpool, even if he did kind of make a stink to go.

I just think that if it's a big moment, he should be happy. He's not insulting Liverpool by being happy to score a big goal that he probably will remember for the rest of his life.

I mean, even Coutinho, if he scores a worldie, should celebrate it. I don't blame booing him, because how he did leave was a touch different, but honestly, Liverpool are in a much different state than they were before he left. His leaving made it possible to go out and get some of the talent they've gotten. If it's his dream move, fine. Rather have had him stay till the end of the season, but they got where they got with him or without him.

The players career is too short and could be over too soon to really hold much resentment or anger over someone celebrating scoring against someone. It's a magical moment to score a goal, and to do it in the Semis of the CL should be something they tell their kid's kids about. I would hate for them to have to consciously then turn around and hold up the hand and say, no, no, I won't celebrate it when they should be enjoying it. I mean, you don't have to stick it to the old club (unless they did you wrong, and neither of them should have that feeling) but there's a middle ground.
 
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Chimaera

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What's the shock? Every single club has stupid fans. Liverpool, when they're good, unfortunately, have their share. They need to take steps to get rid of them. There are certainly degrees of things, but stupid supporters are not an exclusivity of any particular club.

I and pretty much every Liverpool supporter on this forum have been clear about that.
 

les Habs

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Raúl was 15 when he left Atlético, Beckham 16 when he left Tottenham. What's the difference to Alba leaving Barcelona when he was 16? Because Barca marketing department retroactively comes up with a "DNA"?

The difference between Raul and Alba is that Raul joined Atleti's youth setup at 13, something you probably didn't even know, and as you noted left at 15. That's two years. So I wouldn't equate 2 years at that stage the same as a player who spent nearly 7 years and thus nearly half their life and surely half of their organized football life. In fact I'd call that a big difference.

Which was the entire point of this discussion; Barca and Ajax do.

Also, when you speak of rosters. Do you mean the 18 men they take with them every match or their entire CL-selection?

I took the point of the discussion as how good respective youth systems were, but either way La Masia looks good.

That is insane indeed, but Puyol, Pedro and Busquets are iffy. They all joined Barcelona at the age of 17. That still leaves 5 youth products (Valdes, Pique, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta) that set foot on the pitch that day. Pretty impressive.

Totally agree on Puyol, Pedro and Busquets, and that's why I didn't mention guys like Icardi. I think they "count" when you consider rules that state whether a player is homegrown or not, but I agree it can be iffy. Can't say much about Puyol, but I will say that both Pedro and Busquets very surely learned a lot from Guardiola both in the B team and with the first team. There really wasn't any fanfare when they were signed.
 

Juve

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What's the shock? Every single club has stupid fans. Liverpool, when they're good, unfortunately, have their share. They need to take steps to get rid of them. There are certainly degrees of things, but stupid supporters are not an exclusivity of any particular club.

Exactly! Do people actually think we live in a pony, roses and everyone holds hands singing kumbaya world?
 

Burner Account

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Feb 14, 2008
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Trash behavior. I'm sure their tickets for future matches will be much appreciated by whoever gets them as a result of the likely ban.
 

Ceremony

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What's the shock? Every single club has stupid fans. Liverpool, when they're good, unfortunately, have their share. They need to take steps to get rid of them. There are certainly degrees of things, but stupid supporters are not an exclusivity of any particular club.

I and pretty much every Liverpool supporter on this forum have been clear about that.
And every Liverpool supporter in the square where those videos happened were quick to identify the culprit and ensure he faced justice, as well as assisting the people thrown in the fountain.
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
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And every Liverpool supporter in the square where those videos happened were quick to identify the culprit and ensure he faced justice, as well as assisting the people thrown in the fountain.
Right.

Stupid stuff happens. It's the response to it and how to avoid it in the future.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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It would be the most Spursian thing to do is beat Man City, but lose to Ajax in these semifinals.
This Ajax team would give Arsenal a hiding. Spurs were very competitive even with a depleted line-up.
 
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