GWT: Champions League Group Stage Round 2

[bluesfan94]

Mignolet is an excellent shot stopper. Excellent.

And Sommer is better in my opinion.

 

[cgf]

Mignolet is an excellent shot stopper. Excellent.

Still less excellent at it than Sommer. *shrug* But whatevs, even if we agreed that Mignolet is as good a shot stopper as Sommer, that wouldn't make comparing their styles any less silly.

And Sommer is better in my opinion.

In your opinion, in the common opinion, and statistically Sommer is the superior shot stopper. But again the point was about comparing the two; and comparing one of the best sweeper-keepers to a shot stopper who's useless outside of his own box, is asinine.

 

[Evilo]

And Sommer is better in my opinion.

Even then I was clearly comparing their style of "great save/blunder".
Trapp is another example as I said.

 

[Live in the Now]

Mignolet is not an excellent shot stopper. Hasn't been for about three seasons now. His lateral movement is poor, and he struggles on shots that are low placed to either of his sides.

He is excellent at stopping penalties though.

 

[Evilo]

And you can't be good at stopping penalties if you're not a good shot stopper.
Mignolet makes saves he has no business making. He also makes blunder he should never make.
His confidence is low but he IS a good shot stopper.

 

[YNWA14]

Even then I was clearly comparing their style of "great save/blunder".
Trapp is another example as I said.

Can you point me to a persistent pattern of blunders for Sommer?

I can give you an hour long montage of Mignolet mistakes.

Why not just admit you don't watch Sommer and have no idea how good he is and you're basing your opinion purely on two isolated incidents.

Hell, even Neuer makes mistakes from time to time.

 

[Evilo]

Of course all goalies make mistake. But if you take 6 Neuer games and 6 Lloris games randomly, there's really few chance they make as many blunders as Sommer.
He made back to back blunders in his two CL games this season and was shaky on every aerial ball during Euro. That would never happen among the best goalie on Earth.

 

[Moncherry]

What a terrible month for Portuguese soccer.

 

[les Habs]

Gladbach capitalizing on Messi's absence and an unusually lax performance from Busquets. Raffael and Dahoud truly are a dream. Barca got good penetration in the penalty area, but Sommer and some good clearances have kept them from scoring.

Actually at that point it was Barça's finishing more than anything that kept them from scoring. Gladbach never should have had a lead. That lack of finishing and to a lesser degree the ref not carding Kramer early on as he should have definitely helped Gladbach. That said they took advantage and played really well for much of the first half, much better than they did against City.

Another Barcelona goal started by Busquets winning the ball back in counterpressing.

It was actually Rafinha.

 

[cgf]

Actually at that point it was Barça's finishing more than anything that kept them from scoring. Gladbach never should have had a lead. That lack of finishing and to a lesser degree the ref not carding Kramer early on as he should have definitely helped Gladbach. That said they took advantage and played really well for much of the first half, much better than they did against City.



It was actually Rafinha.

Say what now? Barca's finishing didn't come into play until well after the ref missed Pique's handball in the box. Gladbach should've had the lead much earlier in the match.

And if you really wanna gripe about missed chances then Gladbach would've had many more goals themselves.

 

[les Habs]

Say what now? Barca's finishing didn't come into play until well after the ref missed Pique's handball in the box. Gladbach should've had the lead much earlier in the match.

And if you really wanna gripe about missed chances then Gladbach would've had many more goals themselves.

Pique's handball is irrelevant because the ref's decision not to call it was the correct one. Commentators even said it would have been a harsh decision and it wasn't intentional. In fact they did so immediately before even seeing the replay. As for when that I occurred, I don't recall the exact minute but in my recollection it was after the chances I was referring to. Neymar had a chance in the 7th minute, Suarez in the 11th minute and then shortly thereafter Suarez should have shot instead of playing it to Paco. Two of those three chances were in the first 11 minutes and before anything of note from Gladbach. To sum up the first half briefly, Gladbach had the majority of the play but Barça clearly had the better chances. Barça bury two of those chances, and probably just one, it's a different match. That's not to say that Gladbach don't do something, but it's a different match and more difficult for them.

Many more goals? OK.

 

[bluesfan94]

And you can't be good at stopping penalties if you're not a good shot stopper.
Mignolet makes saves he has no business making. He also makes blunder he should never make.
His confidence is low but he IS a good shot stopper.

I know I'm late but this is patently false. Having to read and react during the run of play is a lot different than doing it from a dead ball situation.

 

[Evilo]

Actually yes it's true. A shot stopper has instincts to know where the ball is going to be sent to. Penalties are no different. Reflexes and instincts.

 

[bluesfan94]

Actually yes it's true. A shot stopper has instincts to know where the ball is going to be sent to. Penalties are no different. Reflexes and instincts.

Actually no, it's not true.

Shot stopping is about positioning, reading the body and play of the game, knowing the tendencies of the shooter from earlier in the game, reading the spin and trajectory of the ball, reacting, and athleticism

Saving penalties is about reading, reacting, and athleticism.

Shot stopping in the run of play is so different from penalties.

 

[Evilo]

If you think saving penalties isn't about reading the body and knowing the tendencies of the shooters, I can't help you

 

[bluesfan94]

If you think saving penalties isn't about reading the body and knowing the tendencies of the shooters, I can't help you

Reading was included in my description, if you'd like to reread. Knowing the tendencies is important in a shootout, but not so much a one off PK as the designated PK shooter usually doesn't have a tendency. I'm pretty sure Soccernomics discusses this. Please continue to lecture me more on what shot stopping during the run of play vs penalties. I've never learned this in my 17 years of playing goalie competitively.

Shot stopping requires a lot more skills than penalty stopping. Full stop. A good penalty saver is not necessarily a good shot stopper in the run of play. Full stop.

 

[YNWA14]

Seems logical to me that you don't have to necessarily be a great penalty stopper to be a good shot stopper (and vice versa). You can make up for a lack of size and reflexes with great reading of the play and positioning.

A lot of penalty stopping is guesswork and trying to get in the shooters head, tbh (and reflexes obviously).

 

[Evilo]

Great that you've been a world class goalie because pro goales actually DO study the tendencies of the PK shooters. Like ALL THE TIME.

I thought even basic football fans knew this, so I'm surprised you, as a near pro goalie, can't know that.

 

[bluesfan94]

Great that you've been a world class goalie because pro goales actually DO study the tendencies of the PK shooters. Like ALL THE TIME.

I thought even basic football fans knew this, so I'm surprised you, as a near pro goalie, can't know that.

I know you do. You typically have a guess where they're going to go and sometimes you have things to look at. Especially for penalty shootouts. Typically, the best penalty taker on a team is much much less predictable. Regardless, it's a different idea of reading tendencies compared to that of shooting in the urn of play.

Your condescending attitude doesn't help you whatsoever here. It's okay to admit that you're wrong when you are.

 

[Evilo]

In fact, ask yourself : who are the best penalty stoppers in football?
Alves, Handanovic, Areola (has a huge track record), Neuer, Trapp, De Gea, Buffon, Akinfeev?
Of the top of my head. Landreau was an amazing one until he retired in french football.

What do you see from this list? A bunch of the best shot stoppers in the game. With great reflexes and instincts.

 

[Evilo]

Your condescending attitude doesn't help you whatsoever here. It's okay to admit that you're wrong when you are.

Could be if I was, but when I see someone with zero knowledge of the pro game, I have to correct him, sorry, a typical habit of mine.
Pro goalies spend hours studying the tendencies of PK shooters.
Saying the contrary it not ony ignorant, but particularly stupid.

You might guess in amateur circles or in pro football 20 years ago, but that's not how it's done in pro football now.

 

[bluesfan94]

In fact, ask yourself : who are the best penalty stoppers in football?
Alves, Handanovic, Areola (has a huge track record), Neuer, Trapp, De Gea, Buffon, Akinfeev?
Of the top of my head. Landreau was an amazing one until he retired in french football.

What do you see from this list? A bunch of the best shot stoppers in the game. With great reflexes and instincts.

Jesus, I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. They have many overlapping skills. But saying definitively that being a good penalty saver means that goalie must be a good shot stopper or the inverse is patently false.

Again, you're wrong. That's okay.

 

[bluesfan94]

Could be if I was, but when I see someone with zero knowledge of the pro game, I have to correct him, sorry, a typical habit of mine.
Pro goalies spend hours studying the tendencies of PK shooters.
Saying the contrary it not ony ignorant, but particularly stupid.

You might guess in amateur circles or in pro football 20 years ago, but that's not how it's done in pro football now.

Cool. But when you "correct" with wrong answers, then you aren't accomplishing anything.
I never said they didn't study the tendencies. But when I meant study the tendencies of shooters, I mean in game. There's some things you can pick up from video of shooters in play. But there's a lot more that you don't see on video.

 

[Ceremony]

A lot of penalty stopping is guesswork and trying to get in the shooters head, tbh (and reflexes obviously).

 

[phisherman]

In fact, ask yourself : who are the best penalty stoppers in football?
Alves, Handanovic, Areola (has a huge track record), Neuer, Trapp, De Gea, Buffon, Akinfeev?
Of the top of my head. Landreau was an amazing one until he retired in french football.

What do you see from this list? A bunch of the best shot stoppers in the game. With great reflexes and instincts.

Almunia was a good pk saver.