Player Discussion Chabot ready?

[L'Aveuglette]

I am amazed that Chabot will stay in the AHL and that Boucher will once again put Oduya on the 1st pairing. Literally not one single reason to do this. Anyone that justifies this decision should have his eyes examined.

 

[Korpse]

Ummm incorrect McAvoy went strait to the NHL. Werenski played in the playoffs in the AHL because the NHL wasnt an option as Columbus was out. He then went straight into NHL action.

Provorov was great right from the start and it was the right move to have him in.

McAvoy did not go straight to the NHL, he signed a PTO and played in providence, when Torey Krug got hurt he signed an NHL contract to make him eligible for playoffs. Werenski also signed a PTO at the beginning of April 2016, he played in 7 regular season AHL games and then the playoff run, the Blue Jackets still had 5 games on their schedule. He could have easily played in the NHL and then joined their AHL squad for the playoff run. I didn't think Provorov looked comfortable until late november/early december personally but to each their own.

 

[Korpse]

I am amazed that Chabot will stay in the AHL and that Boucher will once again put Oduya on the 1st pairing. Literally not one single reason to do this. Anyone that justifies this decision should have his eyes examined.

I wonder sometimes if you even know what you are getting upset about.

 

[HSF]

Ummm incorrect McAvoy went strait to the NHL. Werenski played in the playoffs in the AHL because the NHL wasnt an option as Columbus was out. He then went straight into NHL action.

Provorov was great right from the start and it was the right move to have him in.

So you just countered your own point cause both Mcavoy and werenski signed pto's to play in the AHL. Mcavoy was the brought up due to injury ala Chabot right now.

So Ottawa is literally following the two of the three examples u brought up LOL


It's crazy how people literally just make up fake news then post it as truth. First barzal and boeser and now Charlie and werenski

If you want to compare provorov then sure but he was a better prospect than chabot and was seen as more physically ready at 19

 

[BondraTime]

So you just countered your own point cause both Mcavoy and werenski signed pto's to play in the AHL. Mcavoy was the brought up due to injury ala Chabot right now.

So Ottawa is literally following the two of the three examples u brought up LOL


It's crazy how people literally just make up fake news then post it as truth. First barzal and boeser and now Charlie and werenski

If you want to compare provorov then sure but he was a better prospect than chabot and was seen as more physically ready at 19

If you think signing a PTO (which Chabot was incapable of doing...) at the end of a season (out of the NCAA) is the same as being placed in the AHL to start a season out as a 20 year old, I really don't know what to say.

There are some involved with the team who disagree/dislike what has been done with Chabot, I will leave it at that and refrain from continuing down this continuous roundabout.

 

[BatherSeason]

So you just countered your own point cause both Mcavoy and werenski signed pto's to play in the AHL. Mcavoy was the brought up due to injury ala Chabot right now.

So Ottawa is literally following the two of the three examples u brought up LOL


It's crazy how people literally just make up fake news then post it as truth. First barzal and boeser and now Charlie and werenski

If you want to compare provorov then sure but he was a better prospect than chabot and was seen as more physically ready at 19

You are maybe one of 5 people in all of Ottawa who keeps defending this organization. Its mind blowing. I am not even sure you realize what you are arguing anymore. This thread is discussing how Chabot was handled, 90% of the people here say he was handled poorly, while you and maybe one or two more disagree and are fighting this to the grave.

Boeser and Werenski were college players who signed PTOs and were given games, just like Colin White was, but really, its not like they were given 20 games, they all had under 10 games of pro experience before getting a shot with the big club. I would understand your argument more if they all played closer to 20 games. McAvoy was given a big role immediately in Round 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs. All these guys were big boys and were able to chew their steak on their own.

Barzal almost made the Islanders last year actually but they wanted him to develop. Yup that's right even with a decent camp last year they wanted him to develop so they sent him back to the WHL! Crazy right.

You know whats crazy???? The EXACT SAME THING happened last year with Chabot. Then Chabot went to the WJs and guess who was his teammate?? Yep, Mathew Barzal. Guess who outscored Mathew Barzal, yep, Thomas Chabot. You know who won tourney MVP, I will give you one guess and his name isn't Mathew Barzal. Of course your reply will say, Barzal and Chabot can't be compared because they play different positions.

All in all, I am unsure why anyone at any point can argue the fact that Johnny Oduya has deserved a roster spot in this lineup over Thomas Chabot. Same can be said about at least 4 of our current d-men, yet here we are, Chabot will be playing tonight on his offside with Boro after dominating possession for the past two games paired with EK who goes back to a pairing with a guy who should no longer be in the league. Maybe, just maybe if he is lucky, we will be losing and Boucher will become desperate and play him more.

 

[Micklebot]

Provorov was the only one who started in the NHL and had his struggles early, so much so it earned him a thread on the main boards.

How about Fowler, Myers, Ekblad, Doughty, Phaneuf, Trouba, Jones, Vlasic, Hanafin, and Hedman? Were they all mishandled, and should have started in the AHL?

It's worth pointing out that the issue isn't whether a player has early struggles adapting to the NHL, it's about how the player will progress. Provorov doesn't appear to have been hurt by his early struggles (though I suppose we can't know for sure), nor did the guys I listed. The key is deciding whether or not the player can work his way through his struggles (Chabot appears to have done so at this point) and whether or not they can still contribute in spite of those struggles (Chabot certainly was contributing even in the early games where he struggled at times on the PP and as a bottom pair puck mover).

Ideally, imo at least, we would have started Chabot on the bottom pair on the Left side. He should have pretty much immediately been on the PP and when it became apparent (which it did pretty quickly in the games I watched) that he was comfortable on the second PP unit, he should have been moved up to the first unit.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Probably would have been smart to have started Matthew Barzal in the AHL as well IMO since he has never played against men either. Maybe Brock Boeser too.

So you're comparing a rookie forward, with a rookie D man.

Do you believe that's a fair comparison?

Everyone knows that playing defense in the NHL is much harder than playing forward, for rookies.

A rookie forward makes a mistake, and his pass ends up in the corner in the Ozone...... a rookie d man makes a mistake, and it ends up in an odd man rush resulting in a goal (against) or a quality scoring chance.

 

[Korpse]

How about Fowler, Myers, Ekblad, Doughty, Phaneuf, Trouba, Jones, Vlasic, Hanafin, and Hedman? Were they all mishandled, and should have started in the AHL?

I don’t know how you got the impression that I thought players who started in the NHL were mishandled. All I’ve said is that I thought the AHL stint helped and that I understood the decision to start him in the AHL. My point with noting the struggles of provorov was that it takes time for players to adjust, of course I didn’t bring other names to the table either. With where the sens were heading into the season and where they wanted to be at the end of it, I for one didn’t think they could afford to let him figure it out in the NHL. He definitely could have helped at times, but it made sense to have him get playing time in the AHL rather than play the limited role he would have prior to all the injuries on the blue line.

 

[BatherSeason]

Back to discussing the mismanagement of Thomas Chabot. Looks like he is back to playing his offside tonight partnered with Boro, while Oduya is back on pairing #1. Way to go GB!!!

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Back to discussing the mismanagement of Thomas Chabot. Looks like he is back to playing his offside tonight partnered with Boro, while Oduya is back on pairing #1. Way to go GB!!!

Why you insist on arguing about something that you can't ever prove, is beyond us logical thinking fans of the Senators

How can you prove starting Chabot in the top 4 D, fromthe beginning of the season would have been the "right thing to do" in terms of his development?? Do you have a time machine that can take us all back and re-start the season, so we can compare the two outcomes???

No, you don't and can't prove anything one way or another.

I know you have a hard time accepting reality, but the Senators decided to start the Season with the 7 signed NHL experienced D men (on one way contracts) coming off their most successful playoff run since they went to the finals. Chabot failed to win a "job" in training camp, and instead of having him ride the pine in the NHL, they sent him to the AHL, where he belonged at the beginning of the season.


Now please remember that he's been called up because of the injury situation over the past month (or so) and is now slotted to begin tonight's game, in what was Widemans' spot in the line up. He is happy to be up in the NHL and getting these games, and he can prove he belongs, he will stay up, even when Wideman returns.

In my opinion, he's up to stay, and when Odyua is traded, that will be the proof that Ottawa Management has decided he's "won a job".



But feel free to whine and complain about where you think he's going to play the bulk of his minutes tonight, as that seems to be what you do best............ because we all know Boucher never switches things up in the course of a game, and always sticks rigidly to pre game lines and D pairings, right?

 

[BatherSeason]

re-strait the season

How do we re-strait the season? Is that even possible.

 

[Micklebot]

I don’t know how you got the impression that I thought players who started in the NHL were mishandled. All I’ve said is that I thought the AHL stint helped and that I understood the decision to start him in the AHL. My point with noting the struggles of provorov was that it takes time for players to adjust, of course I didn’t bring other names to the table either. With where the sens were heading into the season and where they wanted to be at the end of it, I for one didn’t think they could afford to let him figure it out in the NHL. He definitely could have helped at times, but it made sense to have him get playing time in the AHL rather than play the limited role he would have prior to all the injuries on the blue line.

I guess I lumped you in with some of the others in the discussion, sorry about that.

That said, when you say their AHL stints helped, what are they helping relative to? Obviously any young player will take time to adapt, very few step in immediately without any transition, but for the AHL to help, it needs to do 1 of two things; 1) make that transition quicker, thus meaning the player can contribute at a higher level quicker, or 2) allow that transition to happen without hurting the big club in the standings.

Personally, I don't see how Chabot's transition was hastened by his handling. You could certainly argue it would be slowed if he's only playing 7 mins a night, but frankly that's a different issue all together. Flipping him from left to right all the time and reducing his mins by playing 7 D imo is certainly not intended to hasten his transition either.

With regards to preventing any negative impact to the club in the standings during his transition, well he certainly didn't hurt the team in his first callup back in October, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me he hurt the club when called up again near the start of our slide.

 

[Sensung]

Chabot pushed back to his offside to accommodate Boro and Oduya...and yet we still have posters arguing that he's been handled well.
Unbelievable.

 

[Micklebot]

Chabot pushed back to his offside to accommodate Boro and Oduya...and yet we still have posters arguing that he's been handled well.
Unbelievable.

I didn't mind experimenting with it early on, but he has such a bigger impact on the left side, it should be ditched.

The part that bugs me is that the puck retriever role of the RD is pretty much tied to the step up as far as I can tell; so if the step up succeeds, puck retrieval is either done by the supporting forward, and the puck never enters the zone, or the puck is dumped in and you're typically looking for a guy to go to the corner and make a play from there. to me, this isn't where the high skill puck moving happens. This is the stuff your average dman can handle.

I honestly don't think in our system the RD need to be brilliant puck movers. Adequate is sufficient.

I also think having our slower D in the LD role could be problematic. If our LD are stepping up, they take themselves temporarily out of position for in zone defensive play. Speedier dmen in that role would mean quicker recovery and transition from NZ play where we try to deny entry to DZ play where we focus on defending the house, puck recovery and exit strategy.

The problem I see is that at least two of our future waive of Dmen, Chabot and Jaros, are flipped. Jaros is a RD and Chabot a LD. I think Jaros is fine for the RD role, and Chabot for the LD, but I am not happy that we are seeing / could see hesitation in playing either on their normal side.

 

[BondraTime]

I didn't mind experimenting with it early on, but he has such a bigger impact on the left side, it should be ditched.

The part that bugs me is that the puck retriever role of the RD is pretty much tied to the step up as far as I can tell; so if the step up succeeds, puck retrieval is either done by the supporting forward, and the puck never enters the zone, or the puck is dumped in and you're typically looking for a guy to go to the corner and make a play from there. to me, this isn't where the high skill puck moving happens. This is the stuff your average dman can handle.

I honestly don't think in our system the RD need to be brilliant puck movers. Adequate is sufficient.

I also think having our slower D in the LD role could be problematic. If our LD are stepping up, they take themselves temporarily out of position for in zone defensive play. Speedier dmen in that role would mean quicker recovery and transition from NZ play where we try to deny entry to DZ play where we focus on defending the house, puck recovery and exit strategy.

The problem I see is that at least two of our future waive of Dmen, Chabot and Jaros, are flipped. Jaros is a RD and Chabot a LD. I think Jaros is fine for the RD role, and Chabot for the LD, but I am not happy that we are seeing / could see hesitation in playing either on their normal side.

Having players play whichever side due to role is stupid.

If you are a good puck mover on the left side, play the left side, and vice versa.

Your system doesn't need to be built towards one side of the ice. I have never been involved in a team as a player, or fan/coach/etc. where guys are placed in situations like that due to their play style.

These guys are in the NHL. If they don't know how to react to changing game play, and need to rely on plays only being made on a certain side, they probably shouldm't have gotten further than Junior B.

 

[Korpse]

I guess I lumped you in with some of the others in the discussion, sorry about that.

That said, when you say their AHL stints helped, what are they helping relative to? Obviously any young player will take time to adapt, very few step in immediately without any transition, but for the AHL to help, it needs to do 1 of two things; 1) make that transition quicker, thus meaning the player can contribute at a higher level quicker, or 2) allow that transition to happen without hurting the big club in the standings.

Personally, I don't see how Chabot's transition was hastened by his handling. You could certainly argue it would be slowed if he's only playing 7 mins a night, but frankly that's a different issue all together. Flipping him from left to right all the time and reducing his mins by playing 7 D imo is certainly not intended to hasten his transition either.

With regards to preventing any negative impact to the club in the standings during his transition, well he certainly didn't hurt the team in his first callup back in October, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me he hurt the club when called up again near the start of our slide.

I'd agree he hasn't hurt the team any more than anyone else. He did play a very limited role for sometime and I'm sure you'd agree thats less than ideal but again everytime he has been called up its been out of necessity and not necessarily to give him a look in the NHL. When I say the AHL stint was beneficial, I think of the games early in the season where he was playing significant minutes and while he didn't look bad, I wouldn't have said he looked good either. Now a part of that is playing his offside, and I'd like to mention that I've been against that from the very start but that wasn't the lone reason for the adjustment period imo. Even with the puck in the NZ and OZ he was forcing a lot of plays, trying to make things happen when they just weren't there. Now his game progressed the more he played but I personally feel it would have been beneficial if he saw more time in the NHL. I would have liked him to run the PP, to be a part of the PK and to be playing in all situations. Now that he is in the AHL, he is starting to look more comfortable and getting more ice but now much of that is in a prominent role? He's getting PP time but whats his role on those PP's? When is he going to get time killing penalties? When is he going to be on the ice in the final minutes with a lead? There's going to come a time when all that happens in the NHL and theres still going to be some bumps in the road. Whether or not he did those things in the AHL those bumps would exist but at the same time I think they would be smaller had he played a prominent role in Belleville for an extended period of time.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd agree he hasn't hurt the team any more than anyone else. He did play a very limited role for sometime and I'm sure you'd agree thats less than ideal but again everytime he has been called up its been out of necessity and not necessarily to give him a look in the NHL. When I say the AHL stint was beneficial, I think of the games early in the season where he was playing significant minutes and while he didn't look bad, I wouldn't have said he looked good either. Now a part of that is playing his offside, and I'd like to mention that I've been against that from the very start but that wasn't the lone reason for the adjustment period imo. Even with the puck in the NZ and OZ he was forcing a lot of plays, trying to make things happen when they just weren't there. Now his game progressed the more he played but I personally feel it would have been beneficial if he saw more time in the NHL. I would have liked him to run the PP, to be a part of the PK and to be playing in all situations. Now that he is in the AHL, he is starting to look more comfortable and getting more ice but now much of that is in a prominent role? He's getting PP time but whats his role on those PP's? When is he going to get time killing penalties? When is he going to be on the ice in the final minutes with a lead? There's going to come a time when all that happens in the NHL and theres still going to be some bumps in the road. Whether or not he did those things in the AHL those bumps would exist but at the same time I think they would be smaller had he played a prominent role in Belleville for an extended period of time.

I agree some of his issues were not due to playing off side, but I do think his OZ play was drastically affected by it. Bondra posted a while back about how some of his best tools in the OZ involved walking the line in a way that just doesn't work on your off side. Holding the line becomes harder, lanes change (sometimes for the better, but Chabot want known as a big shooter). How you position yourself one on one even changes because normally you can keep your body on the inside and use your reach to help defend the outside drive.

Wrt him playing a very limited role, I think he was ready for more than what he got myself, particularly when he played the Left side. AHL would probably been better for him than 10 mins a night, but I think ~17 mins a night would have been better for both him and the team.

 

[toxic poster]

So you're comparing a rookie forward, with a rookie D man.

Do you believe that's a fair comparison?

Everyone knows that playing defense in the NHL is much harder than playing forward, for rookies.

A rookie forward makes a mistake, and his pass ends up in the corner in the Ozone...... a rookie d man makes a mistake, and it ends up in an odd man rush resulting in a goal (against) or a quality scoring chance.

Imagine making up siuations like this to justify how mismanaged Chabot has been. You don't know anything about hockey man.

 

[bert]

If you think signing a PTO (which Chabot was incapable of doing...) at the end of a season (out of the NCAA) is the same as being placed in the AHL to start a season out as a 20 year old, I really don't know what to say.

There are some involved with the team who disagree/dislike what has been done with Chabot, I will leave it at that and refrain from continuing down this continuous roundabout.

Thank you.

 

[bert]

Back to discussing the mismanagement of Thomas Chabot. Looks like he is back to playing his offside tonight partnered with Boro, while Oduya is back on pairing #1. Way to go GB!!!

Ugh and im going to the game too, looks like alot of big beers to get through this one. How playing Oduya over any D man appears to make sense to Boucher is beyond me. Atleast he is in for the tank, too bad it comes at the expense of properly developing the prospects he surely wont get a chance to coach after this season.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

At this point Chabot should just stay playing with EK.. They are just starting to get to know each other on the ice.. This is like juggling the lines after trying Hoffman with Duchene for 2 games.. He is back to that now.
Oduya has not helped EK's play at all.. It has magnified the loss of Methot. Oduya and Boro on the bottom pair .. that makes the most sense.. If Boro is to be the constant there, they should be switching in/out Oduya and Claesson rewarding them with games for playing well.

So does this mean that Chabot is being moved back to right side? Likely
As much as I liked Boucher last year ... his militant stubbornness is really starting to irk me

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Back to discussing the mismanagement of Thomas Chabot. Looks like he is back to playing his offside tonight partnered with Boro, while Oduya is back on pairing #1. Way to go GB!!!

Yes but what the team is doing with chabot is just .....so right.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Imagine making up siuations like this to justify how mismanaged Chabot has been. You don't know anything about hockey man.

I am not the one who is claiming Chabot has been mismanaged ........... because I don't think he has, and also no one can prove that he has been.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ugh and im going to the game too, looks like alot of big beers to get through this one. How playing Oduya over any D man appears to make sense to Boucher is beyond me. Atleast he is in for the tank, too bad it comes at the expense of properly developing the prospects he surely wont get a chance to coach after this season.

to "properly develop a prospect" teams traditionally leave their prospects down in the AHL to become "over ripe" rather than throwing them into the NHL when they're not ready.

However, if there are injuries at the NHL level that require a prospect to be brought up, before they're ready, unfortunately this has to be done.

The NHL is not where the majority of young (never played in the NHL) prospects start their pro career...............that is what the AHL is for.

Boucher will finish the season as the head coach, and will still be the head coach to begin next season.