Proposal: CGY - TOR

[Volica]

Take out Kulak, take out Kap, add a 3rd. Done.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

In terms of playing defense it's Hamonic, Stone, Hamilton, Kulak, and then Andersson. It's not really even debatable.

You guys want the offense Hamilton brings but seem to be forgetting that its only possible because Giordano is an absolute beast defensively.

Just surprised after the playoff debacle you guys aren't going for mistake free defenders.

Like Andersson is going to get severely protected minutes next year. You can do that when we have two pairings that can play shutdown roles. Like I don't the game plan in keep bringing more offensive guys in.

mistake free defenders aren't very intriguing to me honestly. I like defenders who can move the puck and contribute in the offensive end first and foremost. Most defensive structure comes from coaching and forward support in my opinion, as well as minimizing time in the defensive end

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Kapanen for Andersson straight up or no deal to be made

I'd rather keep Andersson thanks

 

[DJJones]

mistake free defenders aren't very intriguing to me honestly. I like defenders who can move the puck and contribute in the offensive end first and foremost. Most defensive structure comes from coaching and forward support in my opinion, as well as minimizing time in the defensive end

As I said, it may work out. Calgary tried it out. Failed miserably.

Gio and Hamonic makes me feel comfortable with the top 4 enough that we can go offensive for the third pairing. You guys are just like f*** it. Go offensive all three pairings.

People act like it's a bad thing that you don't notice Hamonic in a game. That's exactly what I want from a #4. I still have nightmares of getting trapped in our zone with defenders that can't win a board battle.

Win a board battle, stop the cycle, make a good first pass, and don't do anything stupid. It's a lot easier said than done.

 

[Volica]

I'll echo that Andersson is the only realistic piece that might fit in a Calgary-Toronto deal. Hamilton is obviously very interesting but the cost is prohibitive, so if Andersson is going to be blocked and Calgary needs a similar upside RH forward then there might be something there in Brown or Kapanen

if not, that's fine too

Nah. I value Andersson a lot more than Kap. Connor Brown isn't an upgrade on our bottom 6 really.

 

[MarkGio]

A lot of Leafs fans are undervaluing Kulak IMO, especially since they keep countering with Andersson.

Kulak progressed well in the CHL, even earning a near ppg pace his last year (as a defenseman), and then crushed it in the AHL while earning the odd NHL stints. He's well seasoned and now established as an NHLer.

The guy is at least an NHL bottom pairing defenseman, possibly a top 4 guy. While he's not dominate in any one facet of the game, he does all the little things right. It wouldn't even surprise me if he puts Brodie on the trade block due to his play. Brodie was also a defenseman who took his time before becoming a stud, having a little luck earning NHL time during a rebuild and playing alongside Giordano.

 

[Halla]

nah, leafs are gonna need Kapanen for secondary offence with JVR,Bozak, and Komarov all about to leave.
Trading him for a pair of bottom pair dmen makes 0 sense. leafs have no reason to move him, or any other young asset, unless a top 4 is coming back

 

[Halla]

A lot of Leafs fans are undervaluing Kulak IMO, especially since they keep countering with Andersson.

Kulak progressed well in the CHL, even earning a near ppg pace his last year (as a defenseman), and then crushed it in the AHL while earning the odd NHL stints. He's well seasoned and now established as an NHLer.

The guy is at least an NHL bottom pairing defenseman, possibly a top 4 guy. While he's not dominate in any one facet of the game, he does all the little things right. It wouldn't even surprise me if he puts Brodie on the trade block due to his play. Brodie was also a defenseman who took his time before becoming a stud, having a little luck earning NHL time during a rebuild and playing alongside Giordano.

guess you missed the part where he bounced between ECHL and AHL before finally becoming an AHL regular at 23 years old

I dont see much of an upgrade on carrick if any here. and carrick literally did crush it in the AHL (led playoff scoring as a dman)

 

[Flames Fanatic]

The Leafs were still significantly better than the Flames at preventing goals over the regular season.

It's almost like there is this other position that helps prevent goals that very publicly was disastrous for us when our player was injured and nobody could step up to fill his skates.

I think Kapanen still has value and is going to be a great player. I'm not sure any fanbase is going to meet what Toronto fans think his value is though.

 

[firstemperor]

It's almost like there is this other position that helps prevent goals that very publicly was disastrous for us when our player was injured and nobody could step up to fill his skates.

I think Kapanen still has value and is going to be a great player. I'm not sure any fanbase is going to meet what Toronto fans think his value is though.

That's acceptable, but please see the context of what I was replying to before you take it as a pot-shot.

As per Kapanen, we don't think his value is any higher than a guy like Andersson. Young player that can grow with the team, probably doesn't have top line/pairing potential. Kapanen has had some question marks about his processing speed relative to his skating speed, and Andersson has had some question marks about his overall skating. Both waiting for a chance with their big clubs, both young players that can grow with their respective teams.

Should say, I don't think Kapanen is going to be a great player, but it's relative. I think he has a fair shot to be a good, useful player though.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Easy no from the Leafs. All quantity.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Nah. I value Andersson a lot more than Kap. Connor Brown isn't an upgrade on our bottom 6 really.

Brown probably lands in your top 6, don't forget the usage that he gets is heavily bottom 6, little powerplay and a lot of PK which he's very good at and he's still managed to put up 20 goals. There's certainly an argument that Brown is better than Ferland, I don't see how someone could argue that Brouwer and whoever you're counting as your other bottom 6 RW is a better player than Brown

wanting to keep Andersson is fine, but the evaluation should be objective

 

[Brock Radunske]

Nah. I value Andersson a lot more than Kap. Connor Brown isn't an upgrade on our bottom 6 really.

That's how we feel about Kulak. He'd just be in the press box and the Leafs sure has hell aren't trading their best prospect for Stone.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Shanny is in love with Kap, pretty sure Dubas has a clause in his contract that doesn't allow him to trade Kap.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Nylander
Carrick
2nd in 2018 (SJ)
4th in 2019 (Stl)

For

Bennett
Hamilton

 

[Volica]

Brown probably lands in your top 6, don't forget the usage that he gets is heavily bottom 6, little powerplay and a lot of PK which he's very good at and he's still managed to put up 20 goals. There's certainly an argument that Brown is better than Ferland, I don't see how someone could argue that Brouwer and whoever you're counting as your other bottom 6 RW is a better player than Brown

wanting to keep Andersson is fine, but the evaluation should be objective

Sure. That was last season.
Leafs fans are quick to remind Flames fans that Bennett couldn't score 30 points this past season; but he had the same type rookie season as Brown (with same type of usage).

A 28 point forwarded on a team that scored a tonne of goals isn't worth trading Kulak for, if it's going to be on the 4th line, or maybe the 3rd line RW (we need more talent on the 3rd line, not equivalent). He won't be a top 6 player, because he's not going to move anyone on that top 6. Also, him being better than Ferland, right now, is pretty laughable. One guy had 13 more points in 5 less games, while also being a physical heart & soul type player.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Leafs are just saying **** it too playing actual defense hey? Haha, who knows maybe it'll work out.

Yeah, the solution is clearly to add the 11th bottom pairing D to the org in exchange for our top F prospect

 

[Randy Randerson]

Sure. That was last season.
Leafs fans are quick to remind Flames fans that Bennett couldn't score 30 points this past season; but he had the same type rookie season as Brown (with same type of usage).

A 28 point forwarded on a team that scored a tonne of goals isn't worth trading Kulak for, if it's going to be on the 4th line, or maybe the 3rd line RW (we need more talent on the 3rd line, not equivalent). He won't be a top 6 player, because he's not going to move anyone on that top 6. Also, him being better than Ferland, right now, is pretty laughable. One guy had 13 more points in 5 less games, while also being a physical heart & soul type player.

I don't think we need to expand the scope of Brown to beyond Brown and make it a pissing match between fanbases just for the sake of it

Brown scored 28pts playing a minute less 5v5 than Ferland, 40 seconds less PP than Ferland and didn't have the benefit of playing with premier players. The "5 games less" doesn't have much of a bearing, Ferland had more total 5v5+PP toi in less games - remember that "game played" isn't a standard unit of measure. Brown was also a CHL scoring champion who produced at every level, he went late in the draft for size and skating concerns which he's overcome (has a bit of an awkward stride, but is a genuine plus skater now). So again, I think your inventory on where Brown would land in a very weak RW corps is off, he only plays bottom 6 here because two of our 3 best fowards are RW's. I'm not sure who your 2RW is now, Spencer Foo is slotted in on the line tracker sites, and if that was the case then obviously Brown would supplant him

fwiw, I see Brown as the value equivalent of Kapanen at this point, his ceiling might not be quite as high but he could be Clark MacArthur in the right usage and is at least a versatile middle 6 player

 

[Volica]

I don't think we need to expand the scope of Brown to beyond Brown and make it a pissing match between fanbases just for the sake of it

Brown scored 28pts playing a minute less 5v5 than Ferland, 40 seconds less PP than Ferland and didn't have the benefit of playing with premier players. The "5 games less" doesn't have much of a bearing, Ferland had more total 5v5+PP toi in less games - remember that "game played" isn't a standard unit of measure. Brown was also a CHL scoring champion who produced at every level, he went late in the draft for size and skating concerns which he's overcome (has a bit of an awkward stride, but is a genuine plus skater now). So again, I think your inventory on where Brown would land in a very weak RW corps is off, he only plays bottom 6 here because two of our 3 best fowards are RW's. I'm not sure who your 2RW is now, Spencer Foo is slotted in on the line tracker sites, and if that was the case then obviously Brown would supplant him

Well, we now know that you don't really follow Calgary one bit, so that's awesome.

1. 40 seconds extra on the Calgary powerplay means less than nothing. Ferland was used as the screen on first unit for about 2 months, and then was the 3rd forward on the second unit post December. The reason his PP time jumped back, was in the last month of the season, Calgary was playing with an AHL squad with injuries piling up at the end.

2. Brown would never, ever, break up the Calgary second line. The 3M line has been one of the best league wide in terms of second lines (And some people even give them overall love).

So, he's not jumping past Ferland. He's not bumping Frolik. He'll bump Brouwer/Hathaway to play with Bennett & Jankowski; something that really won't help Calgary much really, as we need a bigger presence on that 3rd line. Brown is pretty much the same level as those other two kids.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Flames trade: Kulak (LD) + Stone (RD) @ 50% Retained

Leafs trade: Kapenen

Reasons: Kulak just completed his first full NHL season and there's little room for him to grow in the top 4 with Brodie and Giordano ahead of him, but he's also impeding Kylington and Valimaki from making the NHL, so the Flames would be willing to move him. Stone is a great #4 or #5 D-man on any team, but he's also impeding Andersson from making the jump.

The Leafs have Hainsey and Connor in their line-up, so competition is needed on the Blueline. There's also little chance Kapenen takes ice time away from Brown, Marner, or Nylander on the right side, so he's expendable.

Capwise doesn't hurt the Leafs too much and shouldn't prevent them from chasing Tavares, but does help their Blueline in making that pitch.

Thoughts?

Ugh, that looks horrendous to me.

It's not about whether Kapanen is "expendable", it's about whether this is the best offer for him.

It's not.

 

[Liferleafer]

Take out Kulak, take out Kap, add a 3rd. Done.

Wait...that means we still get Stone? Pass.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I would have interest in Hamonic from the Leafs side 100% if the price is reasonable. What would flames want?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I would have interest in Hamonic from the Leafs side 100% if the price is reasonable. What would flames want?

probably a lot to recoup how badly they got hosed on that deal. he's likely not worth it

 

[Brock Radunske]

A lot of Leafs fans are undervaluing Kulak IMO, especially since they keep countering with Andersson.

It has a lot to do with need.
Kulak is not better than Rielly/Gardiner/Hainsey/Dermott and the Leafs are stocked with LHD in their pool. For that reason, his value is basically zero to Toronto.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Double post.