Proposal: [CGY/PHI] Couturier to the Flames... what would it take?

[Flames67]

Aside from a goalie, I think the Flames are missing a strong centre to become truly dominant. Locking up a few RFA's and adding one or two pieces could turn this team into a formidable perennial contender, while Philly has been disappointing the last couple years. Perhaps a shake-up could do them some good?

Brodie, Jankowski, Kylington, Frolik, Bennett, Neal, and picks are likely to be made available (some regrettably), so what would it take to get this beauty to the Flames?

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[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Monahan.

No combination of the pieces you mention gets you anywhere near Couturier.

 

[CapnZin]

Only 1 player over the last 3 1/2 years has put up better D metrics for a forward... Bergeron.

No player in that same time span, in the selke conversation (Bergeron, Couturier, Toews, Kopitar- people like them) has had better offensive metrics.

A 26 year old 1C now putting up 30G | 70-80P signed at ~4.25mil|4.33 cap until 2021-2022 is going to cost a big 3 player + if it’s not named Gaudreau.

Couturier is untouchable.

 

[Harhis]

Aside from a goalie, I think the Flames are missing a strong centre to become truly dominant. Locking up a few RFA's and adding one or two pieces could turn this team into a formidable perennial contender, while Philly has been disappointing the last couple years. Perhaps a shake-up could do them some good?

Brodie, Jankowski, Kylington, Frolik, Bennett, Neal, and picks are likely to be made available (some regrettably), so what would it take to get this beauty to the Flames?

26 years old PPG Selke candidate signed for 4,3 mil. Might take more than spare parts.

 

[wasunder]

I'd love Couturier, but there isn't really a reason for philli to trade him for a package of lesser pieces. cost would hurt more than we want it to.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Selke caliber center in the prime of his career, putting up a PPG on a steal of a deal is worth a package no team would ever offer because that's the only incentive for Philly to ever trade him. So, begin with like Gaudreau.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

A similar thread was started a while back where some Flyer fans said they would turn down Draisaitl for Couturier. And they’re not totally crazy to do so, all things considered, like how cheap Couturier’s contract is and his defensive game.

So, y’know. A handful of lesser pieces proooobably isn’t getting it done.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Brodie, Jankowski, Kylington, Frolik, Bennett, Neal, and picks are likely to be made available (some regrettably), so what would it take to get this beauty to the Flames?

The only regret here would be on the Flyers end. I can't see how this comes close to getting the conversation started.

 

[DRW204]

gee gosh Brodie, Jankowski, Kylington, Frolik, Bennett and Neal regrettably available for a near PPG/Selke Calibre C signed at 4.33M. Not a Flyers fan but this wont end well

 

[Starat327]

Monahan. No other combination of assets gets it close. Philly has more than enough depth in every position. If they trade an impact player, its for an impact player, not for a collection of assets.

Lock this one now before we hear about how Monahan > couturier and thread completely devolves.

 

[Patagonia]

Monaghan or Hanifin.

There is no chance Philly would trade an all star C on a cheap deal for less.

 

[The Burdened]

If you have to ask, you can't afford him

 

[Starat327]

Monaghan or Hanifin.

There is no chance Philly would trade an all star C on a cheap deal for less.

Wouldnt even consider it for Hanifin. Moving our 1C leaves a gaping hole in our lineup, and an even larger hole in our Old core to new core age gap by position.

 

[Double Dion]

Monahan. No other combination of assets gets it close. Philly has more than enough depth in every position. If they trade an impact player, its for an impact player, not for a collection of assets.

Lock this one now before we hear about how Monahan > couturier and thread completely devolves.

I'd do Monahan for Couturier if they were signed to the same length of contract. I think Couturier is the better player, but Monahan is 2 years younger. Tough to give up the extra 2 years of contract length for nothing though. I'd want a 2nd back as well for that control.

 

[Starat327]

I'd do Monahan for Couturier if they were signed to the same length of contract. I think Couturier is the better player, but Monahan is 2 years younger. Tough to give up the extra 2 years of contract length for nothing though. I'd want a 2nd back as well for that control.

I'd (read: personally) probably be hesitant to do it straight up, so i certainly wouldn't add. Monahan has the better numbers for sure, but Couturier's defensive acumen is so incredibly underrated. Taking personal biases out, i can see why someone would see Monahand and say he's the more valuable player, but while i can understand it, i wouldnt agree with it.

That being said - I don't watch Monahan enough to understand the nuances to his games, so this isn't a slight to him, or an attempt to devalue him in any way, shape, or form. I know he's an incredible player, but I see Couturier as the next captain of the team once G hangs them up. I've been a huge Couturier proponent since he was "a poor mans Jordan Staal", so it'll be hard for me to justify moving him in any deal where we arent the far and away winner (i.e. - deals no other team would make).

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I'd (read: personally) probably be hesitant to do it straight up, so i certainly wouldn't add. Monahan has the better numbers for sure, but Couturier's defensive acumen is so incredibly underrated. Taking personal biases out, i can see why someone would see Monahand and say he's the more valuable player, but while i can understand it, i wouldnt agree with it.

That being said - I don't watch Monahan enough to understand the nuances to his games, so this isn't a slight to him, or an attempt to devalue him in any way, shape, or form. I know he's an incredible player, but I see Couturier as the next captain of the team once G hangs them up. I've been a huge Couturier proponent since he was "a poor mans Jordan Staal", so it'll be hard for me to justify moving him in any deal where we arent the far and away winner (i.e. - deals no other team would make).

What you were with Couturier is what I currently am with Zacha. The parallels are uncanny.

I hope to God it pans out for us as well as it did for you.

 

[Starat327]

What you were with Couturier is what I currently am with Zacha. The parallels are uncanny.

I hope to God it pans out for us as well as it did for you.

I hope to god it doesn't.

 

[Volica]

Close this one down.
Not going to end well.

 

[CapnZin]

I'd (read: personally) probably be hesitant to do it straight up, so i certainly wouldn't add. Monahan has the better numbers for sure, but Couturier's defensive acumen is so incredibly underrated. Taking personal biases out, i can see why someone would see Monahand and say he's the more valuable player, but while i can understand it, i wouldnt agree with it.

That being said - I don't watch Monahan enough to understand the nuances to his games, so this isn't a slight to him, or an attempt to devalue him in any way, shape, or form. I know he's an incredible player, but I see Couturier as the next captain of the team once G hangs them up. I've been a huge Couturier proponent since he was "a poor mans Jordan Staal", so it'll be hard for me to justify moving him in any deal where we arent the far and away winner (i.e. - deals no other team would make).

I wouldn’t do it straight up. This year and last their offensive production is points apart.

Couturier: 62G - 87A - 149TP 156 GP (.95 PPG)

Monahan: 62G - 78A - 140TP 147GP (.95 PPG)

TOI argument- Couts plays more per game, but Monahan averages higher 5v5, PP, and Oz TOI /60 than Couturier too.

Monahan doesn’t PK and Couturier has the 11th highest PK TOI. If you account for all players above the 30G 40A mark... only Barkov is the next closest in the top 50 a full ~20min behind Couturier. Couturier is also 44th for PP TOI while Monahan is higher than that.


Their offensive production, for the last 160 some games, has been very similar. Couturier is leaps and bounds ahead defensively. I wouldn’t do Monahan - Couturier straight up. There has to be an add.

 

[BLNY]

Aside from a goalie, I think the Flames are missing a strong centre to become truly dominant. Locking up a few RFA's and adding one or two pieces could turn this team into a formidable perennial contender, while Philly has been disappointing the last couple years. Perhaps a shake-up could do them some good?

Brodie, Jankowski, Kylington, Frolik, Bennett, Neal, and picks are likely to be made available (some regrettably), so what would it take to get this beauty to the Flames?

Think of something that hurts. Then add to that.

I wasn't sure Couturier would discover the offensive game he's displayed these last 2 seasons. He's truly blossomed from a 3c into a 1c. If you're not prepared to give up the equivalent, plus make up for the fact he's on a bargain contract, Fletch doesn't even take the call.

 

[Double Dion]

I'd (read: personally) probably be hesitant to do it straight up, so i certainly wouldn't add. Monahan has the better numbers for sure, but Couturier's defensive acumen is so incredibly underrated. Taking personal biases out, i can see why someone would see Monahand and say he's the more valuable player, but while i can understand it, i wouldnt agree with it.

That being said - I don't watch Monahan enough to understand the nuances to his games, so this isn't a slight to him, or an attempt to devalue him in any way, shape, or form. I know he's an incredible player, but I see Couturier as the next captain of the team once G hangs them up. I've been a huge Couturier proponent since he was "a poor mans Jordan Staal", so it'll be hard for me to justify moving him in any deal where we arent the far and away winner (i.e. - deals no other team would make).

I'd actually mostly agree with you. I think Couturier is the better player, but not by a lot. The age difference and term remaining is why I'd want a 2nd added from a Flames perspective. If they were the same age, with the same term left we'd be adding the 2nd. Contract and age has to be factored in any deal. Giordano is the best defenseman in the league right now, but has less trade value than a Provorov or Hanifin would. That's obviously an extreme example, but the principle is the same. Age and term impacts value.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I have zero interest in moving Couturier. Reasons have already been stated in this thread. He is too valuable to the Flyers.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Philly has been disappointing the last couple years. Perhaps a shake-up could do them some good?

Since everyone has murdered the rest of the points that are to be made here, I'll knock off this one. The necessary shakeup was already made behind the bench and in the management suite (and will probably be finalized when the team hires a real long-term coach). Removing one of the team's best players, who is age-wise the perfect bridge between the current class of forward stars (Giroux, Voracek) and the young/growing one (Patrick, Konecny, Frost/Farabee), would be extremely ill-advised.

As stated, Couturier's an extremely valuable player and the Flyers have no need to lose him for anything except an even better center...which there are probably only 20 or so of in the whole league.

 

[super6646]

What’s the point? We already have Backlund as the defensive centre, so moving Monahan for him makes no sense.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

As a neutral fan I'm trying to think of a realistic scenario where moving Couturier makes the Flyers a better team and I can't come up with anything.