CBJ Board Other Sports Thread: Part VIII

[Samkow]

Cleveland Cavaliers- The Edmonton Oilers of the NBA

 

[JKinCLE]

Cleveland Cavaliers- The Edmonton Oilers of the NBA

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Cleveland Cavaliers- The Edmonton Oilers of the NBA

Was about to ask which team was more embarrassing.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Cleveland Cavaliers- The Edmonton Oilers of the NBA

Edmonton at least has a past that has success instead of a mere chain of soul-crushing failure.

 

[db2011]

That link needs this

I... finally... get it!

Watch out for the Buffalo Bills, God bless his soul but Ralph Wilson is dead and Sammy Watkins is a Buffalo Bill!!!!!

Buckle up folks, the Bills are coming....

Sure hope Kenny Guiton finds a permanent spot on the roster. Such a good kid, I was always so impressed with how effective he was and how he didn't cause a ruckus- he'd have been a starter almost anywhere

 

[db2011]

Hey Lonnie Chisenhall

 

[pete goegan]

Hey Lonnie Chisenhall

In very select company: Gil Hodges and Mort Cooper, two Hall of Famers!

 

[Fro]

what a game by Chisenhall....

in other news, Cavs are interviewing Mark Price...b/c that should go well...bring the old hero back as coach b/c of his name...

 

[pete goegan]

Here's an article that puts Chisenhall's night into historical perspective:

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2014/06/where_does_lonnie_chisenhalls.html#incart_river

 

[SuperGenius]

Here's an article that puts Chisenhall's night into historical perspective:

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2014/06/where_does_lonnie_chisenhalls.html#incart_river

Thanks for the link.

I bet the guys down in Porkopolis would kill to have a line like that as a team in the postseason

 

[db2011]

Thanks Pete! Really wish I'd listened to the entire game and not just the first and last innings. Was distracted by something there in the middle

 

[EspenK]

Martin Kaymer with an opening two rounds of 65-65 is taking all the fun out of watching the US Open. Other than him there are 20 or 3 guys within 2 or 3 shots of each other.

 

[Sore Loser]

I watched part of a World Cup game this morning. I must say, I am entirely disappointed at how that sport is played. Guys get touched - literally, brushed against - and hit the turf grabbing a leg with tears in their eyes. Absolutely no sportsmanship involved, just guys flopping all over and trying to draw penalties on the other team. I don't see how people can compare that in any way to the NHL playoffs ... even if it does only happen once every four years.

To win the World Cup must indeed be difficult ... but it's hard to have any respect for guys who try to cheat at every given opportunity, without shame.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I watched part of a World Cup game this morning. I must say, I am entirely disappointed at how that sport is played. Guys get touched - literally, brushed against - and hit the turf grabbing a leg with tears in their eyes. Absolutely no sportsmanship involved, just guys flopping all over and trying to draw penalties on the other team. I don't see how people can compare that in any way to the NHL playoffs ... even if it does only happen once every four years.

To win the World Cup must indeed be difficult ... but it's hard to have any respect for guys who try to cheat at every given opportunity, without shame.

England-Italy? High paced, technical runners on English team? Someone going full speed on grass surface with ball on their feet, while others try to stop them (without sticks) might come to sudden halt...

NHL has it's own rule benders (starting from league wide anti-doping work...) and surely majority of ice hockey players are willing to "cheat" when the opportunity comes. Or even physically harm another like Jevgeni Malkin did in Worlds final against Erik Haula - cross checking him straight into the jaw with his stick, breaking Haula's jaw in the process. He didn't go to the referees to inform what he had done, off the play in the corner...

 

[Viqsi]

I watched part of a World Cup game this morning. I must say, I am entirely disappointed at how that sport is played. Guys get touched - literally, brushed against - and hit the turf grabbing a leg with tears in their eyes. Absolutely no sportsmanship involved, just guys flopping all over and trying to draw penalties on the other team. I don't see how people can compare that in any way to the NHL playoffs ... even if it does only happen once every four years.

To win the World Cup must indeed be difficult ... but it's hard to have any respect for guys who try to cheat at every given opportunity, without shame.

I'm kind of like this, except I swap out the "hard to" in that last sentence with "completely impossible".

* * *​

England-Italy? High paced, technical runners on English team? Someone going full speed on grass surface with ball on their feet, while others try to stop them (without sticks) might come to sudden halt...

NHL has it's own rule benders (starting from league wide anti-doping work...) and surely majority of ice hockey players are willing to "cheat" when the opportunity comes. Or even physically harm another like Jevgeni Malkin did in Worlds final against Erik Haula - cross checking him straight into the jaw with his stick, breaking Haula's jaw in the process. He didn't go to the referees to inform what he had done, off the play in the corner...

There's borderline plays and bits that get missed, and then there's constant cynical exploitation.

The on-field product is just as corrupt, shameless, and intolerable as the frequently (rightfully) targeted criminals running it. That people can rail against the likes of Sepp Blatter with one breath and defend diving and bamboozling the ref as "part of the game" in the next is one of those things that makes it extremely difficult for me to maintain faith in humanity.

 

[Sore Loser]

England-Italy? High paced, technical runners on English team? Someone going full speed on grass surface with ball on their feet, while others try to stop them (without sticks) might come to sudden halt...

NHL has it's own rule benders (starting from league wide anti-doping work...) and surely majority of ice hockey players are willing to "cheat" when the opportunity comes. Or even physically harm another like Jevgeni Malkin did in Worlds final against Erik Haula - cross checking him straight into the jaw with his stick, breaking Haula's jaw in the process. He didn't go to the referees to inform what he had done, off the play in the corner...

Not England-Italy, FYI ...

And, the NHL handles this sort of thing differently. Notice how Tomas Plekanec was high sticked in the Conference Finals, threw his head back and earned a penalty? Yeah ... he tried that again next game, and he was the one penalized.

The NHL tries to remove this sort of thing from the game ... FIFA continues to reward players for their flailing efforts. That's the difference. Yes, there are a number of known cheaters in the NHL who will take dives in an attempt to draw a penalty. The other difference is, in soccer, it's nearly every player on the field.

 

[Sore Loser]

How many times have you seen an NHL player do this?



I rest my case.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

There's borderline plays and bits that get missed, and then there's constant cynical exploitation.

There's also generalization by claiming that every striker would pull Marlon Brando moves like Brazil's Fred did... he cheated and got rewarded. Did what he could for nation that lives of Brazilian victories till the day they die, yet those triumphs remain and he was one of the extremely lucky ones to be there wearing Brazil's colours in World Cup. At home. Something that every Brazilian dreams of.

The on-field product is just as corrupt, shameless, and intolerable as the frequently (rightfully) targeted criminals running it. That people can rail against the likes of Sepp Blatter with one breath and defend diving and bamboozling the ref as "part of the game" in the next is one of those things that makes it extremely difficult...

Finnish hockey's rise to Finland's number one sport could be told with similar words... Some always benefit from it. And Finland is supposed to be one of the most non-corrupted countries in the world.

Not England-Italy, FYI ...
And, the NHL handles this sort of thing differently. Notice how Tomas Plekanec was high sticked in the Conference Finals, threw his head back and earned a penalty? Yeah ... he tried that again next game, and he was the one penalized.

You can also get carded or completely thrown out of the game in football if you are caught cheating. Of course it being simultaneously called sport referees are prone to mistakes and can make wrong judgments.

Didn't we see quite a few attempts of purposely trying to harm the opponent in these NHL play-offs? At least the Canadiens head coach hinted towards that, pardon my French.

...

...for me to maintain faith in humanity.

Maintain faith or not but that it is what is on happening the pitch. Humanity. Greatest play in the world determined by multiple actors.

People are the same, only the cultures change. Same people play football as pre-match preparation inside ice hockey venues as footballers in MLS or World Cup. Watch a season of any team sports league and draw the same conclusions.

Maybe everyone ain't so hell-bent on being idealistic and 'honest' while the whole known world is burnt down corrupted, maybe they'd rather do their utmost to win. Actions speak louder than words and I only appreciate those who are true and honest even in their darkest moments when it is time to reveal each and everyone's true colour.

 

[EDM]

I hate basketball but I have to say the San Antonio Spurs, their coach and their superstar (Tim Duncan) are a credit to sports everywhere. They represent the best ideals that are embodied in sport.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

LeBron James doing what he does always when faced with adversity in big time games, choking. He sarted hot, then got extremely passive and watched his three peat dreams die. Got absolutely dominated by 22 year old Kawhi Leonard, and he even ended up quitting on the team by jacking up bad shots, not going for rebounds, and not joining the play offensively or defensively at one point, he even left with 6 minutes to go sitting on the bench until the game ended. Quitter

 

[Viqsi]

There's also generalization by claiming that every striker would pull Marlon Brando moves like Brazil's Fred did...

Not every striker, just an overly generous proportion of them. It's not that every player does it, but that every team does it, at least once or twice per game. It gets very tiresome very quickly.

...he cheated and got rewarded.

And should not have. What does that teach folks who are watching?

Did what he could for nation that lives of Brazilian victories till the day they die, yet those triumphs remain and he was one of the extremely lucky ones to be there wearing Brazil's colours in World Cup. At home. Something that every Brazilian dreams of.

Lucky? That's a responsibility, is what it is. If he's doing it for himself, I don't want him on my team.

As for this "anything goes in the service of your nation" stuff... well, I'd comment on that, but then this would turn even more political than it already has.

Finnish hockey's rise to Finland's number one sport could be told with similar words... Some always benefit from it. And Finland is supposed to be one of the most non-corrupted countries in the world.

This is disingenuous; it's tantamount to saying that since some corruption is inevitable, all corruption should therefore be tolerated. That's letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Strive to do better.

You can also get carded or completely thrown out of the game in football if you are caught cheating.

Uhhuh. In all my life I think I've seen that happen in response to a dive or embellishment all of, like, oh, twice. And those have been in MLS. I've never seen it in the World Cup. Ever. Which is a large part of why I've damn near given up on it altogether.

Seriously. This is a sporting event where they still celebrate Maradona for successfully scoring on a handball. I don't care what he followed that up with, **** That ****.

Of course it being simultaneously called sport referees are prone to mistakes and can make wrong judgments.

And yet folks are deliberately exploiting that. Not interested.

Didn't we see quite a few attempts of purposely trying to harm the opponent in these NHL play-offs? At least the Canadiens head coach hinted towards that, pardon my French.

There's vague theories in a game of high-speed collisions in which it's hard to tell what's going on even when filmed in ultra-slo-mo, and then there's the blatantly obvious crap that happens on every single damned pitch every single damned day.

Not every player, but every team, and every game, every time. It's disgusting. NHL players don't run the goaltender in every game.

Maintain faith or not but that it is what is on happening the pitch. Humanity. Greatest play in the world determined by multiple actors. Maybe everyone ain't so hell-bent on being idealistic and 'honest' while the whole known world is burnt down corrupted, maybe they'd rather do their utmost to win.

Said "greatness" is meaningless given the means used to attain it. Team USA could hypothetically take home the World Cup by sending in the Marines to deal with opposition players, but I'm pretty sure that's not legal either. Are you suggesting we should be OK with trying that, tho? It'd be setting side those silly concepts of idealism and honesty and doing our utmost to win, after all.

Or heck, maybe we'll just threaten to nuke anyone who scores a goal on the team. Who needs Tim Howard when you have Minuteman III?

The rules are there for a reason - so that everybody's bound to the same standard. Arbitrary dismissal of that standard should not be in anyone's interest. So why is it still being allowed to happen?

Actions speak louder than words and I only appreciate those who are true and honest even in their darkest moments when it is time to reveal each and everyone's true colour.

And yet you defend those who are clearly dishonest even in their lightest moments and who immediately throw sport and fair play to the wind as soon as there's the slightest pressure.

Hell, if FIFA did anything at all with these sorts of events - I dunno, like, say, review games after the fact and come down on the folks who make such dishonest plays (like, say, oh, banning Fred from participation in the rest of the round robin for that bull**** he pulled against Croatia), then it wouldn't be as much of an issue - for me, or for the game because then there would be a very powerful incentive to not only not do it, but avoid even the appearance of doing it. Or for a during-the-game fix, put in something like mandatory sideline time for anybody who goes down looking injured (read: is down long enough to require a whistle) - thus requiring either some shorthanded time, or a substitution. Those who are legitimately injured will need the recovery time anyways, and if you're faking it then, well, you may have just cost your team pretty badly. Gosh darn. But do something, because the current status quo is utterly intolerable and demands too much of the referee.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Not every striker, just an overly generous proportion of them. It's not that every player does it, but that every team does it, at least once or twice per game. It gets very tiresome very quickly.

 

[Fro]

cards for diving happen in europe a decent bit...they've tried to really crack down on it...in some cases going too far the other way...what needs to happen is suspensions after the fact if nothing else...show that its being reviewed and dealt with...hit some of these guys in their pockets...

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

First of all it would be nice to know what you guys declare as filming (anything other than situations as blatant as Fred example). Surely every team does it if you count every legit obstruction in as well...

Usually it doesn't hurt to get over stereotypes before starting judging games or even sports. Or you're likely stuck at watching ice hockey or whatever fell on lap in the first place till these days are over... I'm happy to see duels happening on football pitch and they surely do not lack any intensity compared to ice hockey, what I also like watching.

It wasn't then some Captain America on the pitch that day but someone who has fought off competition of millions to play in that legendary position of World Cup Brazil striker. Maybe he didn't go through culture were you have to be honest and brave enough to play for Team Canada like Sidney Crosby. He was there only to win like other Brazilians who support him fully, no doubt about that.

Uruguay's Luis Suarez has bit opponents on the pitch, fouled by stopping Ghana from scoring (and going through on World Cup play-off stage) with his hands and most of all scored plenty of goals for his country. He has contributed perhaps more than anyone else on the team and I'm sure they admire him. Maybe he ain't off the pitch as pleasant fellow as Patrick Kane but you get the reality of nature with him on the pitch at least.

It ain't that American Dream (for example of Teemu Selänne's perfect family life that is sold on magazines at Finland) but it's the reality in case of these two individual athletes and it doesn't get any more real and honest from that. If you don't like watching real human beings doing this particular sport and acting like real humans do while they are it... you ain't in danger of losing faith in humanity but very much lacking understanding of humanity on it's basic levels, already starting to build dream-like images of heroic North American ice hockey players. While wearing Don Cherry colours.

 

[Viqsi]

First of all it would be nice to know what you guys declare as filming (anything other than situations as blatant as Fred example). Surely every team does it if you count every legit obstruction in as well...

It's not about folks who fall - it's about folks who drop and roll around as though they're in some kind of agony and then hop back up as soon as it's obvious the ref isn't going to call it. That's what's egregious and unacceptable, if for no other reason than it distracting from ACTUAL injuries.

Usually it doesn't hurt to get over stereotypes before starting judging games or even sports.

Hon, if I'd never made an effort to "get over the stereotype", I'd never bother watching. I do watch some MLS because it seems like folks at least make an effort to get rid of that crap and they're less theatrically stupid about it. Haven't watched the game in Europe in a while because I quite frankly got way too damn sick of it; if they're actually making an honest effort to improve the situation (which Fro seems to suggest is happening), maybe I'll give it another try. Maybe the next time the Champions League rolls around.

It wasn't then some Captain America on the pitch that day but someone who has fought off competition of millions to play in that legendary position of World Cup Brazil striker. Maybe he didn't go through culture were you have to be honest and brave enough to play for Team Canada like Sidney Crosby. He was there only to win like other Brazilians who support him fully, no doubt about that.

I Don't Care. Brazil and the rest of South America wouldn't tolerate it if we went out there insisting we were "Team America" instead of "Team USA"; why the hell should we tolerate their theatrics? A sporting competition should be better than that. Leave the nationalistic jingoism to the past where it belongs.

Uruguay's Luis Suarez has bit opponents on the pitch, fouled by stopping Ghana from scoring (and going through on World Cup play-off stage) with his hands and most of all scored plenty of goals for his country. He has contributed perhaps more than anyone else on the team and I'm sure they admire him. Maybe he ain't off the pitch as pleasant fellow as Patrick Kane but you get the reality of nature with him on the pitch at least.

And I don't want anything to do with the ****er, or Team Uruguay as a result. It's disgraceful that that kind of nonsense is even permitted, to say nothing of being outright celebrated.

It ain't that American Dream (for example of Teemu Selänne's perfect family life that is sold on magazines at Finland) but it's the reality in case of these two individual athletes and it doesn't get any more real and honest from that.

You keep saying "real and honest" as though this is somehow morally equivalent to "desperate, honorless, and the ends justify any means". **** THAT. Admitting to criminal behavior does not excuse criminal behavior. It partially mitigates it (in that it suggests that you may be willing to improve by taking that first step), but it doesn't excuse it and it CERTAINLY doesn't justify continuing on to do more of the same.

Once again: Team USA could win the World Cup if we sent in the Marines. Should we be doing that? Your position as currently described seems to suggest that we're somehow naive and foolish by NOT doing so.

I don't presume hockey players to be perfect either, but at least they're not being blatant barbaric uncultured lowlifes about it.
(well, okay, with some exceptions)