Friedman: Carolina is interested in JT Miller

[kcunac]

Miller is a good buy low candidate but I don’t think the Canucks will sell him for less than the very public offer of 1st, Chytil, Lundqvist at last year’s deadline. At least not within a year of making that decision.

Ironically the Miller threads last year were filled with we don’t want him unless he’s signed. Now he’s signed and his contract makes him negative value.

 

[jackjohnson]

According to Friedman, he has definitely heard that Carolina is interested in Miller, goes to say interest might stem all the way back to summer.

For salary purposes, if a trade happens then its almost certian that Kotkaniemi + is the return.


Miller 263 pts in his last 253 games. New contract starts next season. 8mil AAV for 7 years
46 pts in 51 games thus far this year.

No Trade Clause will start in July



Friedman isnt the only that has been hinting that there has been conversation being had for Miller

Wait, why would Canucks trade Miller and get a crappy player like kotkaneimi?? Miller is not really a cap dump, so Carolina gets rid of their useless players and gets a top line center lol. We would get rid of OEL too if you want to get rid of kotkaneimi in the same trade

 

[jackjohnson]

KK 4.8M till 2030 or Miller 8M till 2030, Miller is obviously the better player now but he'll be 37, KK will be 29

I find it hard to believe that anyone would wanna commit that type of money to Miller but we'll see. if VAN retains 500k to 1M they might do it to allin for the Cup. (edit: seems like you can't retain on a contract that hasn't started yet?)

Miller's contract will eventually be brutal but the question is when, KK is pretty brutal right now but you gotta wonder if there's still upside with him (and if Carolina is willing to wait). It's an interesting trade to think about for sure, Carolina is competing now.

If anyone does trade for Miller i definitely think it'll be Carolina.

I don't get why age matters when you want to get rid of your useless player in KK when he is useless now and will be useless in the future. Miller is useful now and will still be usefully 5 years from now. Seriously these are such dumb proposals when Canucks could have gotten Chytil, 1st and Lunkvist for Miller. Carolina needs to give up prospects and picks not KK.

 

[jackjohnson]

Sorry, not sure what Van is thinking. No one is giving them a 1st rounder and top spects for Miller and that horrible contract. They should just get out of his contract, they are obviously rebuilding. Why tie up the cap space for him?

The contract is fine, maybe a year too long but he would have gotten at least that in FA and he still puts up points. What I don't get is when people try to trade Louis Eriksson type players with the same length as Miller's contract and ask for retention while saying it's the worst contract in the league. I don't mind Canucks keeping Miller and he doesn't need to be traded for a garbage contract or a low value return. Next people want to trade cap dumps for Petersson and Hughes lol. Canucks aren't value village

 

[jackjohnson]

Miller fits the Carolina MO in that he could most likely be acquired for a bargain, those guys hate spending assets.

No, Miller would not be gotten for a bargain. His contract of 8 million is fine, the term might be long but the last 2 years could be bought out. Canucks are best to keep him than to trade for garbage and cap dumps. Don't get why this board thinks Miller is a cap dump. A cap dump is players like OEL, KK etc

 

[jackjohnson]

The Hurricanes generally seem to buy low on players. Look at the recent trades like Burns, Paccioretty, and to a lesser extent, trading for Trocheck and the Teravainen cap dump deal.

They rarely give up good assets in trades. They are only interested in Miller because they believe the circumstances of his contract make him basically neutral value and easy to acquire. They might even want Vancouver to retain.

So Vancouver retains on Miller's 8 year contract while Carolina gets him cheap? You guys sure are way over your head in these trade rumours. Imagine Carolina getting Miller for 6 mil per year, a complete steal while getting him for low picks. How does this make sense for Canucks? I rather have Miller play out his contract then to retain dead cap space for the next 12 years and lose a good player for nothing.

 

[Vagrant]

It seems like the Canucks have recognized there is a toxicity to their culture that they want to be rid of for good. KK might not be an elite player, but he has been better this year and he's a hard worker and metrics have him as playing really well defensively. He would probably be more like a replacement for Garland than Miller, but the Canucks need bodies and the Hurricanes need the cap space long term if they're going to include Miller in the future plans. KK isn't going to win any awards, but he plays honest minutes and that's something the Canucks need. If they can project him out to a 35-40 point top 9 with strong defense and good faceoff ability up the middle, it's hard to price him a lot lower than where he's signed. If he plays up into the Top 6, the contract might even be a good one. The bottom line on it is that it's not a pure dump situation and it's not going to gut the Canucks to pay the guy $1 million more than he's worth anyways. It's the least of what they have going on right now. The true value is going to be in the picks and prospects that will most likely be better for KK's inclusion if that's the route taken.

Nikishin, Morrow, Drury, Rees.... there's a few guys that could move the needle along with a 1st round pick and perhaps another pick in 2025. If Miller is seen as part of the culture problem that took that room over, they don't want to marry that for 8 years.

 

[jackjohnson]

I am 90% sure that is what is happening. Carolina sees an opportunity to buy low. Canucks management don’t want to have egg on their face after signing the biggest contract of their tenure so far, at the expense of losing Horvat as well. This is an ego and PR issue for the Canucks management; not a logical decision.

They chose Miller over Horvat. They won't let both go for cheap returns. I know it's a customary thing on HFboard to look at cap space as a useful asset but when you don't use it then it's not really an asset. Canucks are retooling and they aren't rebuilding so they would need vets like Miller on the team. Canucks also have Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland etc. Who are in the 26-27 age group. If it was truly a rebuild, then they would have traded Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Garland, Demko etc.

It seems like the Canucks have recognized there is a toxicity to their culture that they want to be rid of for good. KK might not be an elite player, but he has been better this year and he's a hard worker and metrics have him as playing really well defensively. He would probably be more like a replacement for Garland than Miller, but the Canucks need bodies and the Hurricanes need the cap space long term if they're going to include Miller in the future plans. KK isn't going to win any awards, but he plays honest minutes and that's something the Canucks need. If they can project him out to a 35-40 point top 9 with strong defense and good faceoff ability up the middle, it's hard to price him a lot lower than where he's signed. If he plays up into the Top 6, the contract might even be a good one. The bottom line on it is that it's not a pure dump situation and it's not going to gut the Canucks to pay the guy $1 million more than he's worth anyways. It's the least of what they have going on right now. The true value is going to be in the picks and prospects that will most likely be better for KK's inclusion if that's the route taken.

Nikishin, Morrow, Drury, Rees.... there's a few guys that could move the needle along with a 1st round pick and perhaps another pick in 2025. If Miller is seen as part of the culture problem that took that room over, they don't want to marry that for 8 years.

Canucks have lots of warm bodies thank you very much, especially in forward position. Useless warm bodies like Pearson, poolman, etc. Canucks have better and cheaper than KK and they don't need him as a return for Miller

 

[Vagrant]

I don't think the Canucks need him either, but the Canes need him gone if they're going to trade for Miller and if the package is enticing enough, they might be willing to live with KK as a low floor, modest upside middle line option. It all depends on the direction the Canucks want to go. Losing Horvat, it might signal the start of a retooling phase where having a robust system would be most helpful. If you can get 3 1st round pick type assets for Miller and you're not sure he's in your window, you have to move him now before he has more control over his situation. But I know you're probably not going to agree with that either, which is fine, but it's probably more what is being discussed internally.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Sorry, not sure what Van is thinking. No one is giving them a 1st rounder and top spects for Miller and that horrible contract. They should just get out of his contract, they are obviously rebuilding. Why tie up the cap space for him?

I personally doubt we can get rid of him after this years performance. Now we're stuck hoping to rebuild another players value.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I personally doubt we can get rid of him after this years performance. Now we're stuck hoping to rebuild another players value.

His performance where he has exactly the same amount of points as Carolina's leading scorer ?

 

[Chan790]

Can we please not be interested in J.T. Miller? I would appreciate it.

His performance where he has exactly the same amount of points as Carolina's leading scorer ?

Awesome! Vancouver should keep him and refuse to trade his too-long, boat-anchor contract to Carolina.

That would show those good-for-nothing southern hockey aficionados. How dare they not want Miller just because he's signed for an AAV he can't possibly be worth all the way to age 36!

 

[Raistlin]

Can we please not be interested in J.T. Miller? I would appreciate it.

Awesome! Vancouver should keep him and refuse to trade his too-long, boat-anchor contract to Carolina.

That would show those good-for-nothing southern hockey aficionados. How dare they not want Miller just because he's signed for an AAV he can't possibly be worth all the way to age 36!

Huberdeau's is a boat anchor. Miller's is actually a fair deal. He could be better but its not like hes not performing, hes almost PPP. Yes, he was terrible defensively to start the year, and he had been sulking, which lead to all the negative press....but even his overall play has improved under Tocchet. I was never convinced that he's in our window after deciding to retool though, management should explore trading him. Selling low on him is unjustified however.

 

[bleedgreen]

So Vancouver retains on Miller's 8 year contract while Carolina gets him cheap? You guys sure are way over your head in these trade rumours. Imagine Carolina getting Miller for 6 mil per year, a complete steal while getting him for low picks. How does this make sense for Canucks? I rather have Miller play out his contract then to retain dead cap space for the next 12 years and lose a good player for nothing.

This isn’t a Canes fan rumor. Presumably it’s a Nucks fan trying to push Miller on us. We don’t want to trade Kk. We don’t want Miller. It’s based on shoddy information Friedman himself shot down. Don’t put this evil on us.

 

[Chan790]

Huberdeau's is a boat anchor. Miller's is actually a fair deal. He could be better but its not like hes not performing, hes almost PPP. Yes, he was terrible defensively to start the year, and he had been sulking, which lead to all the negative press....but even his overall play has improved under Tocchet. I was never convinced that he's in our window after deciding to retool though, management should explore trading him. Selling low on him is unjustified however.

I'm not knocking his play. At-all.

There are teams for whom his value is higher with term. Carolina isn't one of them. He'd be a great option for us...if he was a rental or entering the last year of his deal. With his current contract, he's the last trade target we should consider.

 

[Cancuks]

I think if Miller is moved he winds up in Pittsburgh. The Pens are really in no man's land. Can't rebuild so they need to try and go for it. Could make it work with the cap trading Kapanen and maybe McGinn to Vancouver.

 

[Cogburn]

Burns is a poor example. He’s a health nut, a ridiculous physical specimen who’s been pretty lucky. You can’t point him out as the standard of late 30’s. Most guys start crashing in their early 30’s. Of course there are other contracts that are like Millers, but we’re not picking on those here because this is a thread about Miller. When someone is pushing Miller towards our team of course the contract is the prime issue. If he was on a three year deal we’d give a ton for him, he’s probably exactly what the Canes need more of. He’s not on a three year though. You even use Trocheck as an example. If we were willing to pay one of these contracts we would’ve just kept Trocheck. He was a damn good 2C and a righty for the draws opposite Staal. Good fit with the team, coach loved him, mostly productive. We let him just walk but we’re going to take Miller? Does not compute.

Sorry, my intent wasn't to say "Burns is playing well, so everyone will play well". Just that there are a lot of GMs that seem to have no problems signing players on 6, 7 and 8 year terms for players well into their late thirties. That was t he take away I had from the post I quoted, anyway.

 

[KaraLupin]

They chose Miller over Horvat. They won't let both go for cheap returns. I know it's a customary thing on HFboard to look at cap space as a useful asset but when you don't use it then it's not really an asset. Canucks are retooling and they aren't rebuilding so they would need vets like Miller on the team. Canucks also have Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Garland etc. Who are in the 26-27 age group. If it was truly a rebuild, then they would have traded Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Garland, Demko etc.


Canucks have lots of warm bodies thank you very much, especially in forward position. Useless warm bodies like Pearson, poolman, etc. Canucks have better and cheaper than KK and they don't need him as a return for Miller

You are missing the part where Horvat is younger than Miller, and in a retooling timespan, Horvat would be perfect in 2-3 years (If you think they are indeed retooling and not rebuilding).

Why did they choose to keep Miller then? Because Miller has negative value and could not be moved. If Miller had Horvat value people would 100 percent take him even with the extension cap hit. If he was going off this year like he was last year, for sure he is gone right now and Horvat is signed long term.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

His performance where he has exactly the same amount of points as Carolina's leading scorer ?

Dreadful in his own zone and making waves with his poor attitude. And not a lot of 5v5 production.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't think the Canucks need him either, but the Canes need him gone if they're going to trade for Miller and if the package is enticing enough, they might be willing to live with KK as a low floor, modest upside middle line option. It all depends on the direction the Canucks want to go. Losing Horvat, it might signal the start of a retooling phase where having a robust system would be most helpful. If you can get 3 1st round pick type assets for Miller and you're not sure he's in your window, you have to move him now before he has more control over his situation. But I know you're probably not going to agree with that either, which is fine, but it's probably more what is being discussed internally.

We wouldn’t have to trade KK in a deal that gets Miller. Rod wouldn’t play miller at center anyways. A trade of KK just makes us that much weaker down the middle

 

[GAGLine]

I find it very ironic that so many Vancouver fans reject Kotkaniemi out of hand. They did the same thing with Chytil last year and now regret it.

Kotkaniemi is still only 22 years old. 20 points in 51 games isn't bad. He doesn't need to improve that much to make that contract worth it. The rule of thumb is 1 mil for every 10 points, so he would need to improve to 30 in 51 to be on a 48 point pace. Anything more than that is gravy.

He's 9th among all forwards on Carolina in EV ice time per game and 8th in PP time per game. With more time and opportunities, he may flourish.

If Vancouver is going to rebuild, then why not take a chance on him? You can have him for up to 3 years before you need to make a decision on him, as he can still be bought out at 1/3rd in 2026 (he doesn't turn 26 until July 6th, 2026). These would be his buyout numbers in 2026:

It's a lot of years, but not a lot of cap space. And if he works out, you've got a good player at a good number for a long time.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

KK and miller aren’t even related in the same rumor, yet this argument goes on.

 

[jackjohnson]

You are missing the part where Horvat is younger than Miller, and in a retooling timespan, Horvat would be perfect in 2-3 years (If you think they are indeed retooling and not rebuilding).

Why did they choose to keep Miller then? Because Miller has negative value and could not be moved. If Miller had Horvat value people would 100 percent take him even with the extension cap hit. If he was going off this year like he was last year, for sure he is gone right now and Horvat is signed long term.

Miller doesn't have negative value. Just because a bunch of posters here think he has negative value because they saw him poute or throw his stick on the ice doesn't make him negative value. He is still putting up points and contributing and is still a PPG player. Horvat also had a career year this year, wait til next year when his numbers go back to normal and see if he is worth 8.5 million when history has shown Miller to be a more offensive player compared to Horvat as he had higher number for many year in comparison. Miller would have gotten the same contract or even higher during FA so I really don't get how he is negative value. I think people here just automatically think any player has negarive value once they sign long term contracts unless they are 19 years old. Also doesn't make sense to suddenly trade 2 top centers in the same year. A good center is hard to find, just ask the Calgary flames.

 

[Canucks LB]

You are missing the part where Horvat is younger than Miller, and in a retooling timespan, Horvat would be perfect in 2-3 years (If you think they are indeed retooling and not rebuilding).

Why did they choose to keep Miller then? Because Miller has negative value and could not be moved. If Miller had Horvat value people would 100 percent take him even with the extension cap hit. If he was going off this year like he was last year, for sure he is gone right now and Horvat is signed long term.

Not since rick took over, That’s for sure.
JT has been amazing, Looks like the player we signed last year

 

[jackjohnson]

I find it very ironic that so many Vancouver fans reject Kotkaniemi out of hand. They did the same thing with Chytil last year and now regret it.

Kotkaniemi is still only 22 years old. 20 points in 51 games isn't bad. He doesn't need to improve that much to make that contract worth it. The rule of thumb is 1 mil for every 10 points, so he would need to improve to 30 in 51 to be on a 48 point pace. Anything more than that is gravy.

He's 9th among all forwards on Carolina in EV ice time per game and 8th in PP time per game. With more time and opportunities, he may flourish.

If Vancouver is going to rebuild, then why not take a chance on him? You can have him for up to 3 years before you need to make a decision on him, as he can still be bought out at 1/3rd in 2026 (he doesn't turn 26 until July 6th, 2026). These would be his buyout numbers in 2026:

View attachment 648493

It's a lot of years, but not a lot of cap space. And if he works out, you've got a good player at a good number for a long time.

If that rule of thumb is true then why do posters here think Miller is negative value when he got his contract last year during which he put up 99 points. His contract should have been 10 mil instead of 8 mil lol

Not since rick took over, That’s for sure.
JT has been amazing, Looks like the player we signed last year

Yeah I will be patient with Miller unlike HFboards lack of patience with any player that signs long term. Just watch next year when people here will say Horvat is negative value once he puts up only 50 points...it's typical of posters here. These were the same posters that whined about Petterssons struggles early last season and thought he was a bust, now he is a selke candidate. HFboard never disappoints with their wrong predictions everytime