Post-Game Talk: Carolina Dominates Detroit (5-3 Loss)

[BeersHockey]

I remember seeing someone tweet "Will Carolina ever win an October game again?" or something to that effect.. I hate foreshadowing.

Carolina went 4-5-3 in October 2013, so it has only been one year.

 

[SoupGuru]

Yeah, that was a tough game. Handled the puck like a hand grenade...

We need to be more physical. Our 4th line is the only one that slug it out in the corners and they're usually winded from the PK. Sometimes I feel like we rely on snappy passing because if one of our guys gets touched, it's a turnover.

 

[HIFE]

This place cleared out pretty quick, like a wedding reception with no liquor!

Credit to the Canes I really like their coach Peters(?) yet another Wings product building the NHL. Carolina has a good mix of (younger) veterans and rookies. Kind of how I think of Columbus, a big and skilled team (besides Gerbe, haha). A guy like Tatar seems to look small facing them. I wish this loss was as simple as Detroit underestimating a bottom feeder, taking them lightly whatever crap saying can be made. Hurricanes are a decent team who I'm glad will be tolerable to watch again and for now they have the Wings #.

After the win vs. Tampa I felt the need to defend Smith, but I have to agree with Sarcastro and others who are basically done with him. After what I thought was such a strong pre-season maybe I was imagining things. Tonight Smith looked drugged. Was that actually Smith's dummy? No he is a dummy, or better yet a zombie, the skating dead. Seriously what bothered me is not the mistakes (which in hockey happen back and forth perpetually) it is the lack of passion. Acting as if he doesn't give a ****. Pure speculation could he be dealing with some personal issue like a death in family or a girlfriend leaving him? His spirit seems low to me. I'll be the 1st to admit I over imagine a LOT of things. Maybe Smith just isn't fit for the Red Wings?

The stat posted about the Wings shot totals is interesting. It proves we're trying to be too cute over-passing. Just shoot the puck! It creates rebounds and unforeseen bounces, all types of chaos. Every shot unloaded a goalie has to jump down and up off his knees he may eventually wear down. From mites to the big leagues shots are the name of the game DRW need to pump more at the net.

Can anybody tell me what the heck happened with our D pairings the last 1/2 of the 3rd? Green was put with Kronwall and...? After tonight E and Smith should be a 3rd pairing that is used as much as the Rangers 3rd- i.e. never. We see Blash adjusting lines in real time and I don't think he's as attached to certain combinations or players as Babcock was. He needs to win no matter what. Great sign his youth as one of the youngest NHL coaches to mix things up searching for the best output. I'd be open to experiment with any of our combinations/pairings.

 

[14ari13]

Wow sounds like I missed a game I wouldn't want to watch anyway. 5-3? How was Howard. any softies?

You can see the highlights

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Terrible game. Howie let in 1/2 sofites. Almost everybody on the dfence played garbo. Ericsson is not a top pair dman. I have no clue how management sees that he is. Put him on the 3rd pair or sratch him. Green hasnt been playing garbage like 3 other dmen and he doesn't even have Danny D on his line. Smith wouldnt be any worse then Ericsson. and he has a history of playing good with Kronner unlike Ericsson.

at least Larkin got a point, so thats a + same with Zetterberg and the Nyquist goal.

Like others stated above, I don't like Pulkinnen either. He can't play dfence and if he doesn't score a goal in the game, he's pretty much a nobody on the roster. waits for others to do the work for him to release his shot. which is decent. It's just fast. which is why people like it so much. Not cause it's like elite or anyhting.

 

[14ari13]

I do not get officiating. Z gets tripped, no call. Larkin trips someone, they call it. Then Ferraro gets tripped, no call. All this in the 1st period while they had the 1-0 lead.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I do not get officiating. Z gets tripped, no call. Larkin trips someone, they call it. Then Ferraro gets tripped, no call. All this in the 1st period while they had the 1-0 lead.

Yeah i remember dose.

2 out of 2 horrible referees in games between Carolina and Detroit.


wasnt last game like 10 to 1 or something

More balanced this time, but still dumb calls.

 

[8snake]

I think early in the season these games have shown a couple things...

1. A coaching change doesn't automatically mean better play or out of character play from mediocre to below average players. Some on this board posted nonsense about guys like Smith becoming a better player because Blashill's up tempo, high paced system would allow him to play to his strengths. He has no strengths. Brendan Smith will always be Brendan Smith no matter what system you put him in. Period.



2. Blashill is going to have to understand that you can't force a system when you don't have the personnel to execute it at a high enough level to be effective. We want to play a higher risk, high speed game with d-men jumping in and creating...and the results have been far uglier than I can recall in several years. We simply don't have the back end to play that way. Not even close. Not from a skating standpoint or an instinctual standpoint offensively. Even the games we have won we are getting out-chanced and generating very little.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Detroit was a mess pretty much from the get-go. Over the whole course of the game I felt like there were maybe only four or five minute+ long sequences where all the skaters were where they were supposed to be. The rest of the time the team was bunched and clumped oddly, resulting in terrible passing lanes, sluggish flow, no sustained offense.

Not a good effort.

Howard was bad too. It's not like the defense was swaddling him in blankets of protection or anything, but he was doing his 'fat juicy rebound' thing more or less all night.

Individually, I really liked the Wings forwards. Cohesively they were junk all night, but Nyquist, Larkin, Tatar, Z, Sheahan, Richards... all the major players looked to be moving well and playing well, they just couldn't get in sync. I get the Pulkkinen hate, I do. He's a wholly offensive player who provides pretty much 0 anywhere else. If that offensive bias can translate into actual production, though, he's got to have a role on the team. I mean, the guy has 3 goals in 4 games playing less than 14 minutes a night and all his goals are at ES. The team has 11 ES goals, total. He has 3 of them.

I don't, however, get the Ericsson hate. People say 'top pairing dman', but he's only playing with Kronwall as a partner, not getting that usage. He's got the 4th most IT/g at the position, but his 18:36 min/g is way closer to Smith and Kindl at 5/6 (18:09 and 18:11) than it is Quincey's #3 at 20:07. Ericsson is literally used the least at ES of any Wings dman. Kindl has nearly 2 full minutes per game more usage at ES than Ericsson does. No joke. When Dekeyser comes back we'll see what other usage changes happen, but right now Ericsson's more like a 5/6 that has PK responsibilities. Think Lilja.

I'm pretty much done with Ferraro. Dime a dozen guy, wish him the best of luck when he's claimed by Columbus or something, but I'd rather Andersson and I think Andersson's a 14th/15th forward. Once Datsyuk and Helm get back... bye bye Landon.

Jurco, too. Maybe there's something there I just am not seeing, but I simply don't know how that guy is going to produce in the NHL. I don't see any skill set there that can overcome any amount of defensive resistance. Not super fast, not super big, not super strong, not super smooth, no big shot, not a great passer. I can see how his skill level got him some success in the AHL, but even 4/5 dmen are going to swallow him up in the NHL.

Curious to see how things start shaking out as the guys get back.

 

[mindfly]

All the talk about this season being "fresh", new coach, new voice, new players... but the babs structure, system, and details are gone... getting outshot everygame, doesn't shoot the puck etc etc

 

[joe89]

Tatar and Richards have been snakebitten so far, but it's not like we've had troubles scoring. Problem is team defense, taking dumb risks at the offensive blue line and whatnot. Mostly Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen, Larkin in no specific order. They gotta shape up and play the right way, take the easy play once in a while. We need to play more like we did against Tampa, use the speed all over the ice to take the puck back and not just going up. If you don't win puck battles the rest don't matter much.

 

[sarcastro]

I thought Richards looked good in the preseason but he hasn't looked good at all since the start of the regular season. Not playing a fast game, doesn't ever seem to have the puck in a dangerous spot.

 

[JPE123]

Almost nothing good about this game. Move on

 

[Obe2kenobe]

I get it, you like Pulkks. I personally think he's been completely useless. Call it what you want, he's had 3 very flukey goals. He was noticeably bad on the PP, he had several plays where just took way too long to do anything with the puck and ended up losing it, he had one complete rookie play where he tried to make a cheesey move on a d-man who of course stripped the puck of him easily..

Hey if he scores 30+ goals like this, great. But I just doubt he keeps scoring goals in this way. And when he stops getting these types of goals, he will be of zero use in a lineup unless he starts adapting his game to the NHL and makes faster decisions and finds ways to use his shot more.

O.k. We get it. You think Pulkkinen is useless, he made some mistakes. What young , inexperienced player doesn't??? The guy has 3 goals in 4 games. I didn't see his 1st and 2nd goal against Carolina but his 3rd goal was very Flukey??? Looked like a nice deflection in front of the net. The PP was poor most of the night. Very tough time entering the zone is what I noticed more than a few bad moves by Teemu. How do you call a guy with 3 goals in 4 games completely useless??? At times he looked inexperienced, but really, come on completely useless???
It's 4 games into the season people. With a new coach and some young players with little experience. There is going to be some losses, mistakes made, off nights.

 

[JPE123]

I think Pulks will be okay but he has very specific skills and doesn't play a 200 ft game very well now. He's going to improve for sure. He looks a little frantic now and needs to settle into a more controlled style of play.

His goals haven't been beautiful for a guy with a slapper but he's always going to the net which is a good thing.

We need Tatar to break out of his funk as well as Richards has been pretty ineffective.

We have lots of talent, just needs to gel

And I have officially given up on Smith. I thought Babcock was in his head being a big problem but he hasn't improved, maybe even regressed. Honestly I'd rather see Jensen playing than Smith

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Tatar and Richards have been snakebitten so far, but it's not like we've had troubles scoring. Problem is team defense, taking dumb risks at the offensive blue line and whatnot. Mostly Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen, Larkin in no specific order. They gotta shape up and play the right way, take the easy play once in a while. We need to play more like we did against Tampa, use the speed all over the ice to take the puck back and not just going up. If you don't win puck battles the rest don't matter much.

We also really need to stop taking stupid penalties. I am tired of that, really tired of it... We have a lot of bad habits that are carrying over from last year in that department. One difference is and I cautiously concede this point knowing it will probably stretched a different way. However a big reason the penalties concern me is the rookie coach. We are still taking the big amount of penalties only difference here is when the coach bangs on the refs it isn't we get our five PPs because they fear Babcock, it is that is a penalty coach. It isn't untrue, but we have to adjust because the even up calls are not going to come to young players and a green coach, that is the politics of the NHL unfortunately.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

O.k. We get it. You think Pulkkinen is useless, he made some mistakes. What young , inexperienced player doesn't??? The guy has 3 goals in 4 games. I didn't see his 1st and 2nd goal against Carolina but his 3rd goal was very Flukey??? Looked like a nice deflection in front of the net. The PP was poor most of the night. Very tough time entering the zone is what I noticed more than a few bad moves by Teemu. How do you call a guy with 3 goals in 4 games completely useless??? At times he looked inexperienced, but really, come on completely useless???
It's 4 games into the season people. With a new coach and some young players with little experience. There is going to be some losses, mistakes made, off nights.

I don't know why Teemu's disfavor at the NHL level surprises people. The guy is a shorter and less talented Franzen with less of a two-way game.

People crushed Franzen for being a high 20's goal scorer and high 50's point producer because he was bad for entire stretches of games. In a lot of ways Pulkkinen deserves more than Franzen, because he is minus defensively and on the boards. He tries a lot of really inadvisable stuff in dangerous areas that are low percentage plays and sputters for large stretches of the game.

He is young and improving and certainly there are not the same physical gifts. But for those saying Mantha is the next Franzen (in a large part because of the physical gifts) I am starting to get the feeling it is going to be Teemu. In actuality it should be worse if there is no improvement because right now we are lucky to get two good shifts out of Teemu a game and that is going to become a problem with a lot of people if it continues.

The scoring confidence should help, but being a good pro is about consistency and he needs a heck of a lot more of it moving forward.

 

[Bench]

All the talk about this season being "fresh", new coach, new voice, new players... but the babs structure, system, and details are gone... getting outshot everygame, doesn't shoot the puck etc etc

What this teams needs is a bunch of low percentage shots taken from 30 feet out at a bad angle and immediately followed up by retreating to play defense. Does anybody else remember that? I do. It wasn't all that better.

But hey, then the Wings would be corsi darlings and only lose the game 3-1.

The growing pains here are real. You can point to coaching all day, but I'm pretty sure Blash doesn't draw up "allow 30 shots" every day on the board. The guys need to execute. There's a lot of simple hockey plays they aren't making at the moment.

 

[DanZ]

All the talk about this season being "fresh", new coach, new voice, new players... but the babs structure, system, and details are gone... getting outshot everygame, doesn't shoot the puck etc etc

It's been 4 games. Do you think implementing a new system happens overnight?

 

[Shaman464]

I don't know why Teemu's disfavor at the NHL level surprises people. The guy is a shorter and less talented Franzen with less of a two-way game.

People crushed Franzen for being a high 20's goal scorer and high 50's point producer because he was bad for entire stretches of games. In a lot of ways Pulkkinen deserves more than Franzen, because he is minus defensively and on the boards. He tries a lot of really inadvisable stuff in dangerous areas that are low percentage plays and sputters for large stretches of the game.

He is young and improving and certainly there are not the same physical gifts. But for those saying Mantha is the next Franzen (in a large part because of the physical gifts) I am starting to get the feeling it is going to be Teemu. In actuality it should be worse if there is no improvement because right now we are lucky to get two good shifts out of Teemu a game and that is going to become a problem with a lot of people if it continues.

The scoring confidence should help, but being a good pro is about consistency and he needs a heck of a lot more of it moving forward.

Pulkks is in no way the next Franzen unless you mean purely statistically. But he has 3 goals in 4 games, and is going to the dirty areas. His defensive play will come. Why do I defend him? Having watched him since he was drafted he has one attribute that makes him easily likable: He's adaptable. Whenever he's told to work on something he does. He never takes it personally, he never complains, he goes out there and does what he has to. Last season Babs said he can be a perimeter player, well all three of his goals have been in the dirty areas. Be patient with him, he won't be the next Hull, but he will be a staple middle 6, offensively talented, hard working player for Detroit for a long time.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 46m46 minutes ago
With Andersson, DeKeyser and Helm making their season debuts for the #RedWings tonight, Ferraro, Jurco and Smith will be healthy scratches.

 

[Heaton]

The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 46m46 minutes ago
With Andersson, DeKeyser and Helm making their season debuts for the #RedWings tonight, Ferraro, Jurco and Smith will be healthy scratches.

Good on Blashill

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

The Wheel Deal ‏@Bill_Roose 46m46 minutes ago
With Andersson, DeKeyser and Helm making their season debuts for the #RedWings tonight, Ferraro, Jurco and Smith will be healthy scratches.

Nice.

The whole team was bad last night, but smith was particularly bad.

 

[detredWINgs]

If Kindl, Smith and Ericsson continue this way under Blash, then I'll be strangely comforted to know that it's not just that they aren't a good fit for a particular system, but that they just aren't good hockey players in general.


Also, the amount of tension and concern on this board after 4 games with the first new face behind the bench in a decade is epic. Even for HF standards. Y'all need to chill out.

 

[Mister Ed]

Abdelkader-Z-Nyquist
Tatar-Richards-Larkin
Helm-Sheahan-Pulkkinen
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Green
Quincey-Kindl

Mrazek
Howard

Should be the expected lines, right? I changed Larkin and Nyquist because they were switched mid-way last night.