TSN Radio Carlyle likely to be fired

[pucci2001]

the problem with this is that, it will turn into yet another Wilson era and Nonis will be putting his job on the line if Carlyle stays and does a repeat of this year. The only difference between Wilson and Carlyle is our offense is making up for Carlyle's ****** system which Wilson did not have the benefit of. Carlyle is an unfit coach for this team and I absolute HATE the defensive system we have right now. Just terrible.

I don't think it is so much the system as much as it is the personnel in the system. We don't have more than one person on our blue line who can even spell defense(Gunnarsson, Rielly is 2nd best in my book). We also don't have any physical presence on the back end. Gleason lost his edge since he started playing for us. They need to bring someone in on the back end that plays the type of hockey Carlyle is preaching. Our wingers aren't committing to anything in our own end either, they don't really cover the point and they don't really pressure the puck they just float around somewhere inbetween and our defensemen get running around and confused. Especially Dion and especially Franson. If there was a visible system that we could see he was running and we could see it was failing it would be different but personally I don't see any system or any consistency with our line up...it is just a free for all in our own end, the players aren't adhering to any type of system.

I think our PK is a pretty good example of what happened to our team the last 2 seasons. People just started to be terrible and irresponsible. There is no way our PK goes from one of the best to almost dead last in a year because of the coach. The players on the PK didn't even change other than Komarov. Did they forget how to do it after being so successful the year prior?

 

[pucci2001]

If I was Nonis I would definitely swing it by the Oilers and let them know he is available since they desperately are in need of defenseman. We might not get that high first, but I would probably take a package with a little less value. Regading Kesler, Nucks fans have already made it clear that he will not waive his NTC to go to another Canadian city I think. Evander Kane is an interesting piece, but I think we need defensive help now more than anything.

I've defended Dion before, but just his inconsistency, his lack of IQ and terrible leadership skills are grounds to move him. He will not bring this team anywhere close to a semi or even conference final match. He's a captain who in reality really isn't anything more than part of the support cast who is getting paid money that captains make. The day we can get rid of him, will be the day this team becomes better.

I think we could bring in a really good #3-4 defenseman and still manage a similar defensive style.

I think if we could trade him for Kane the cap space that we free up in that deal would instantly be used to get one of either Robidas, Niskanen, Orpik or Boyle. No, its not enough to cover the full price tag but we have a ton of pieces we can move in or out this off season.

Not to mention Kane is a super talented beast, he just needs a change of scenary.

Edit: I would really rather having Robidas, Niskanen or Orpik than DIon on our team. So even if we get bad value on the trade if we can land 2 of 3 of those players I think the trade is a bonus.

 

[Purity*]

I think if we could trade him for Kane the cap space that we free up in that deal would instantly be used to get one of either Robidas, Niskanen, Orpik or Boyle. No, its not enough to cover the full price tag but we have a ton of pieces we can move in or out this off season.

Not to mention Kane is a super talented beast, he just needs a change of scenary.

Edit: I would really rather having Robidas, Niskanen or Orpik than DIon on our team. So even if we get bad value on the trade if we can land 2 of 3 of those players I think the trade is a bonus.

No you wouldn't. Those guys would get eaten alive in the role that Dion plays.

 

[pucci2001]

No you wouldn't. Those guys would get eaten alive in the role that Dion plays.

Dion gets eaten alive in the role he plays. Dion isn't the man for the role he is trying to play. What we are doing with Dion now is having Steve Buscemi play Batman instead of Christian Bale. At least with one or two of these guys we know what we have and we don't have to just thrust them into roles they aren't capable of. We would have defense by committee instead of one guy that can handle the offensive zone stuff but ***** the bed everywhere else on the ice.

We get more depth, more balance and it paves the way for our TRUE star on the blue line and most likely our future captain Morgan Rielly.

I also don't think any of them will let the likes of Gionta, Steen, Gallagher push him around and laugh in their face the whole game either. Dion is a joke around the league, everyone knows he is soft as Cottonelle.

 

[LaymanX]

Alternatives to Carlyle?

What kind of coach would we be looking for, assuming we dump Carlyle?

I guess the obvious answer is a veteran, defensive minded coach who focuses on possession play. For starter's I'm not a big fan of the Swarm defense (is Edmonton the only other NHL team using this?), nor am I impressed by the fact that Carlyle doesn't put much stock in CORSI/THoR.

Who would be good available candidates to replace him?

 

[mikebel111*]

well looks like the candidate leafs are after is Pete Deboar according to rumors.

 

[LaymanX]

hmm.. that's actually not bad.

 

[Kelly]

I've heard Trotz might be let go....

 

[Amadeus]

The Leafs are not going after Pete DeBoer. It was mere speculation put forth by Aaron Ward who said that he's heard that Shannahan might be a fan of his coaching.

Pete DeBoer is rumored to be a very demanding coach who has his favorites and prefers to live and die by his veterans. He's not a players coach at all and is a disciplinarian.

Michael Repik and Dmitri Kullikov both had harsh things to say about him during his stay in Florida. He is not a patient and forgiving coach especially when it comes to youngsters.

However, things could change if he's actually provided a young core to play with. This is a move that could work either very well or fail miserably from the get go.

 

[mikebel111*]

hmm.. that's actually not bad.

I have always liked this guy. defence first but his teams struggle to score but that has to do with the roster usually. he knows players like Clarkson[hopefully gets him going], kadri[played on his team in junior and always has liked him]

he is also familiar with Steve Spott

 

[Duke Silver]

I'm not a fan of how DeBoer has handled the Devils young players.

John Stevens seems like the type of calculating and intelligent coach this team needs.

Has done well manning the Kings' defensive side of things. Has coached both offensive teams (Flyers - Head Coach) and defensive teams (Kings - Assistant). Has had a few deep playoff runs with LA, including a cup win.

 

[mikebel111*]

The Leafs are not going after Pete DeBoer. It was mere speculation put forth by Aaron Ward who said that he's heard that Shannahan might be a fan of his coaching.

Pete DeBoer is rumored to be a very demanding coach who has his favorites and prefers to live and die by his veterans. He's not a players coach at all and is a disciplinarian.

Michael Repik and Dmitri Kullikov both had harsh things to say about him during his stay in Florida. He is not a patient and forgiving coach especially when it comes to youngsters.

However, things could change if he's actually provided a young core to play with. This is a move that could work either very well or fail miserably from the get go.

while yes some points may be true, but I wonder if he can adapt his coaching style to fit this team? I am willing to say yes

 

[LaymanX]

The Leafs are not going after Pete DeBoer. It was mere speculation put forth by Aaron Ward who said that he's heard that Shannahan might be a fan of his coaching.

Pete DeBoer is rumored to be a very demanding coach who has his favorites and prefers to live and die by his veterans. He's not a players coach at all and is a disciplinarian.

Michael Repik and Dmitri Kullikov both had harsh things to say about him during his stay in Florida. He is not a patient and forgiving coach especially when it comes to youngsters.

However, things could change if he's actually provided a young core to play with. This is a move that could work either very well or fail miserably from the get go.

After this season, I'm not against a strict disciplinarian in the locker room. Bag skate these guys for every defensive breakdown or listless effort.

 

[mikebel111*]

now I don't think Spott should be coach, but the lazy guys in this team, he will not stand for that

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Apparently Carlyle has a reputation for being "hard". People want a coach that's "harder"? Good luck.

 

[mikebel111*]

it was Aaron Ward and also Chuck who put this out, so their might be something here

 

[McGuiresMonsters]

I would not be thrilled about Deboer. I want to either poach one of the best coaches who commands respect (I.e. Babcock), or a new up and comer who has a reputation for working well with players. I don't want some middle of the road coach. Just my opinion though.

 

[theIceWookie]

I don't think it is so much the system as much as it is the personnel in the system. We don't have more than one person on our blue line who can even spell defense(Gunnarsson, Rielly is 2nd best in my book). We also don't have any physical presence on the back end. Gleason lost his edge since he started playing for us. They need to bring someone in on the back end that plays the type of hockey Carlyle is preaching. Our wingers aren't committing to anything in our own end either, they don't really cover the point and they don't really pressure the puck they just float around somewhere inbetween and our defensemen get running around and confused. Especially Dion and especially Franson. If there was a visible system that we could see he was running and we could see it was failing it would be different but personally I don't see any system or any consistency with our line up...it is just a free for all in our own end, the players aren't adhering to any type of system.

I think our PK is a pretty good example of what happened to our team the last 2 seasons. People just started to be terrible and irresponsible. There is no way our PK goes from one of the best to almost dead last in a year because of the coach. The players on the PK didn't even change other than Komarov. Did they forget how to do it after being so successful the year prior?

Carlyle should recognize that his system is set up for a team that he doesn't have. How stupid is it that he has tried to force his system upon players that don't fit it?

It's doesn't make any sense. A coach is supposed to find a system that fits a team, not make the team fit his system.

 

[diceman934]

I heard today that they have interest in Barry Trotz ....

 

[diceman934]

Carlyle should recognize that his system is set up for a team that he doesn't have. How stupid is it that he has tried to force his system upon players that don't fit it?

It's doesn't make any sense. A coach is supposed to find a system that fits a team, not make the team fit his system.

Any NHL player worth his pay check should be able to play under any system.....

The blame the coach excuse is well past what we should accept as fans...it is the players issue. Defensive hockey takes no talent just like backchecking.....it takes hard work. Look at all the successful teams.....they are all playing a very similar D zone system that we are....except the players try a whole lot harder and keep each other accountable!

It is called being a professional!

 

[Durrr]

Any NHL player worth his pay check should be able to play under any system.....

The blame the coach excuse is well past what we should accept as fans...it is the players issue. Defensive hockey takes no talent just like backchecking.....it takes hard work. Look at all the successful teams.....they are all playing a very similar D zone system that we are....except the players try a whole lot harder and keep each other accountable!

It is called being a professional!

I disagree, but also any team is not able to play under any system.

You can't make a 5'10 175 pound player play a physical system that is based off grinding and 1-1 battles, that player is in the NHL likley because of his speed and play making.

Also, no, a lot of team's don't play our system, infact our system has been getting ripped to shreds by most analysts in the media. The collapsing D zone system with no point coverage is a dying system, only used by older coaches with less and less success.

 

[I Am The Stig]

well looks like the candidate leafs are after is Pete Deboar according to rumors.

 

[Pi]

Any NHL player worth his pay check should be able to play under any system.....

The blame the coach excuse is well past what we should accept as fans...it is the players issue. Defensive hockey takes no talent just like backchecking.....it takes hard work. Look at all the successful teams.....they are all playing a very similar D zone system that we are....except the players try a whole lot harder and keep each other accountable!

It is called being a professional!

Exactly. I think you're one of the most intelligent posters here.

Every system consists of a few similarities that all teams follow but the Leafs are a minority..they don't backcheck, they don't have a consistent forecheck, they can't fight for pucks along the boards, they can't cycle.

It's all about effort and how bad you really want the puck back once you lose it. This entire team is full of Bobby Ryan's. No intensity. Just losers.

When Wilson was fired we blamed him for implementing a run and gun system but Wilson knew that his team doesn't play defense. Now we got a defensive coach who wanted attention to details and people are saying he should change his system to fit the team.

It's hypocrisy.

Wilson and Carlyle aren't great coaches but after burning through both of them...it's the core that needs to be destroyed...starting with Captain Cliche.

 

[diceman934]

I disagree, but also any team is not able to play under any system.

You can't make a 5'10 175 pound player play a physical system that is based off grinding and 1-1 battles, that player is in the NHL likley because of his speed and play making.

Also, no, a lot of team's don't play our system, infact our system has been getting ripped to shreds by most analysts in the media. The collapsing D zone system with no point coverage is a dying system, only used by older coaches with less and less success.

A system is not geared around one small player but a team.....

Detroit, St Louis , LA Kings, Ducks, Boston, Chicago etc are all playing a very similar system....with lots of success......it is poor reads and consequences around the players reads that separate them. Accountability is lacking in Toronto for our worse offenders and with out accountability your system no matter what it is will fail.

 

[diceman934]

Exactly. I think you're one of the most intelligent posters here.

Every system consists of a few similarities that all teams follow but the Leafs are a minority..they don't backcheck, they don't have a consistent forecheck, they can't fight for pucks along the boards, they can't cycle.

It's all about effort and how bad you really want the puck back once you lose it. This entire team is full of Bobby Ryan's. No intensity. Just losers.

When Wilson was fired we blamed him for implementing a run and gun system but Wilson knew that his team doesn't play defense. Now we got a defensive coach who wanted attention to details and people are saying he should change his system to fit the team.

It's hypocrisy.

Wilson and Carlyle aren't great coaches but after burning through both of them...it's the core that needs to be destroyed...starting with Captain Cliche.

Thanks....

I did not like Wilson as a coach because he lacked a system that would help aid in protecting our team from keeping the puck out of our net....His system was not one others were using with good reason it was seriously flawed. Carlyle is using systems that all good teams have been using with Stanley cups as the result of performing it well....Pittsburgh is the most talented team in the NHL and has been for a long time....their issue is lack of a defensive zone system buy in. Chicago is no where near the best team in the NHL and has won two cups....by buying into a defensive first approach. Look at St Louis as a example of team buy in....they would not be considered a top 10 team when assessing the team on skill and talent....yet they are very successful because of system buy in and accountability.