Player Discussion Carey Price - Spring Savings Edition

[jaffy27]

If he had been drafted by...........almost any team not named Montreal or Torranna........there are a ton of teams that he could have won a Cup with....most teams don't let their GM use training wheels for 9 years...

But which team....who could afford him?

 

[BLONG7]

for a shorter window Hasek produced the best goaltending I've ever seen. Roy is the greatest goalie overall. Fleury has seemingly gotten better with age and is consistently very good.

Price has been declining the past couple of years but this playoff performance is much better than last year. He is the reason we have a game 7. Great goaltending with a below average team.

Thinking Brodeur.............insane amount of games and wins....with not much run support.
Roy got a ton of run support with the habs,and the Avs......still a huge playoff guy, but no way around it, he played on teams that could score goals.......he won his share of 5-4 games...just my 2 cents.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

 

[azcanuck]

Thinking Brodeur.............insane amount of games and wins....with not much run support.
Roy got a ton of run support with the habs,and the Avs......still a huge playoff guy, but no way around it, he played on teams that could score goals.......he won his share of 5-4 games...just my 2 cents.

I'm guessing you never watched much Roy or Brodeur? sorry if I'm wrong.

Brodeur played in an era of left wing lock and clutch and grab. He played on a team that perfected it. Not taking anything away from him he was still great.

Roy was the biggest reason the Habs won two cups with him. Much higher scoring era at times in his tenure. But his stats in the playoffs are second to none. His SP difference between the competitor goalies in his Hab cup wins are the biggest in playoffs history Brian Bellows and Vince Damphousse were not superstars.

Roy won 10 consecutive over time games in playoffs. That's nuts!!
And ....Roy’s trophy case is stocked with four Stanley Cups, three Conn Smythe trophies, and three Vezina trophies

 

[BLONG7]

But which team....who could afford him?

Do you think teams wouldn't make room for a goalie of his calibre? The leafs made room for four forwards making 40M for goodness sake....

 

[BLONG7]

I'm guessing you never watched much Roy or Brodeur? sorry if I'm wrong.

Brodeur played in an era of left wing lock and clutch and grab. He played on a team that perfected it. Not taking anything away from him he was still great.

Roy was the biggest reason the Habs won two cups with him. Much higher scoring era at times in his tenure. But his stats in the playoffs are second to none. His SP difference between the competitor goalies in his Hab cup wins are the biggest in playoffs history Brian Bellows and Vince Damphousse were not superstars.

Roy won 10 consecutive over time games in playoffs. That's nuts!!
And ....Roy’s trophy case is stocked with four Stanley Cups, three Conn Smythe trophies, and three Vezina trophies

Saw it all.................Ken Dryden for me......but really never thought Roy, yes even as a habs fan, could touch Brodeur.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Saw it all.................Ken Dryden for me......but really never thought Roy, yes even as a habs fan, could touch Brodeur.

Roy played on teams that Lundqvist or Price could only dream of. Swap it out and Roy has no cups and the other two are up there with the greatest ever.

Roy will always be ahead of those guys though with his cups. Fair or not, unless Price wins at least one cup that's the way it is. Lundqvist never got his.

As for Roy vs Brodeur, one huge difference was Brodeur's handling of the puck. He was every bit as good as Price is. Diepietro was another great guy with the puck. Ron Hextall was the best ever.

Roy I would cringe whenever he came out of his net. Amazing positional goalie. Tons of posts would go clanking off because he gave nothing to shoot at. But damn, he was bad with the puck.

Except that one time he deked Gretzky at center ice. Roy was probably the greatest troller of all time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Saw it all.................Ken Dryden for me......but really never thought Roy, yes even as a habs fan, could touch Brodeur.

Dryden has probably the greatest cup run of all time. Almost as many shutouts as losses. You could make a very good case for him being the best goalie of all time.

He gets downplayed for the teams he was on but you could do the same for Roy or Brodeur...

Unlike Roy, he actually led his team to some upset series wins on his cup runs. The '71 run with an over the hill team against a couple of powerhouses is insane.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I don't think Fleury is even a top 100 goaltender of all time, Roy is clearly top 3.

Not what I meant. I meant both Roy and Fleury were gifted amazing teams. Both the 2nd best of their eras. While Hasek and price were forced to play for mediocre teams. With worse teams, Hasek has far better numbers than Roy in the same exact era. I personally think if Hasek and price were put on Colorado and Pittsburg during their eras, they'd do way better than Roy and Fleury but that's just my opinion

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not what I meant. I meant both Roy and Fleury were gifted amazing teams. Both the 2nd best of their eras. While Hasek and price were forced to play for mediocre teams. With worse teams, Hasek has far better numbers than Roy in the same exact era. I personally think if Hasek and price were put on Colorado and Pittsburg during their eras, they'd do way better than Roy and Fleury but that's just my opinion

Hasek would've won a million cups if he was on Colorado.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

for a shorter window Hasek produced the best goaltending I've ever seen. Roy is the greatest goalie overall. Fleury has seemingly gotten better with age and is consistently very good.

Price has been declining the past couple of years but this playoff performance is much better than last year. He is the reason we have a game 7. Great goaltending with a below average team.

Correct Roy is the greatest but I wouldn't say he's the best. His numbered were dwarfed by others in his era

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Hasek would've won a million cups if he was on Colorado.

exactly. Same with price with pittsburg

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Correct Roy is the greatest but I wouldn't say he's the best. His numbered were dwarfed by others in his era

I wouldn't classify Roy as the greatest. Great goalie, among the best ever but there are others I'd take ahead of him.

- Won multiple cups
- 2 unexpected cup runs
- 3 well earned smythe trophies (this is why he's regarded so highly)
- 3 Vezinas
- 4 cups

However:
- Those 2 cup runs were incredibly lucky scheduling wise.
- Never led an upset series win (closest would be vs Detroit in 96 but only point wise. Everyone knew that was a pretty even series)
- Was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs. Cost Montreal numerous series.

In sum: One of the best ever. Deserved his Smythes. But those Smythes deserve context. He never faced the 86 Oliers or the 93 Pens. Never even faced the 86 Flyers or 93 Bruins. We got extremely lucky on those runs. He shouldn't be penalized for this but those Smythes do need context.

 

[Sorinth]

Not what I meant. I meant both Roy and Fleury were gifted amazing teams. Both the 2nd best of their eras. While Hasek and price were forced to play for mediocre teams. With worse teams, Hasek has far better numbers than Roy in the same exact era. I personally think if Hasek and price were put on Colorado and Pittsburg during their eras, they'd do way better than Roy and Fleury but that's just my opinion

I'm not saying your wrong, but one thing to consider is that is that the worse the team is the better the goalie can look and vice versa. Put Hasek on NJ instead of Brodeur and suddenly Hasek is not making amazing saves game in game out because the team simply doesn't give up lots of them every game. So the same player, but now he's not the highlight reel he was. At the end of the day on a bad team it's easy to ignore the times the goalie doesn't make a great save because it's the teams fault for giving up so many, whereas on a good team the goalie gets blamed for not making the stop when the team really needed it.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I wouldn't classify Roy as the greatest. Great goalie, among the best ever but there are others I'd take ahead of him.

- Won multiple cups
- 2 unexpected cup runs
- 3 well earned smythe trophies (this is why he's regarded so highly)
- 3 Vezinas
- 4 cups

However:
- Those 2 cup runs were incredibly lucky scheduling wise.
- Never led an upset series win (closest would be vs Detroit in 96 but only point wise. Everyone knew that was a pretty even series)
- Was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs. Cost Montreal numerous series.

In sum: One of the best ever. Deserved his Smythes. But those Smythes deserve context. He never faced the 86 Oliers or the 93 Pens. Never even faced the 86 Flyers or 93 Bruins. We got extremely lucky on those runs. He shouldn't be penalized for this but those Smythes do need context.

Very true. I give him the benefit of doubt on all those points. I also think he had a better career than Brodeur who was fortunate enough to play his prime years in the dead puck era on a team reknown for the trap game. Plus Roy has more accolades. I can think of one right now, but can you name a goalie in the expansion era until now that can be classified as greater than Roy

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I'm not saying your wrong, but one thing to consider is that is that the worse the team is the better the goalie can look and vice versa. Put Hasek on NJ instead of Brodeur and suddenly Hasek is not making amazing saves game in game out because the team simply doesn't give up lots of them every game. So the same player, but now he's not the highlight reel he was. At the end of the day on a bad team it's easy to ignore the times the goalie doesn't make a great save because it's the teams fault for giving up so many, whereas on a good team the goalie gets blamed for not making the stop when the team really needed it.

It's not just the high danger saves it's his overall work. Hasek was not gifted with a supertramp like Roy or others in various eras and yet he consistently had amazing overall stats whereas Roy never had amazing stats in his career relative to his counterparts

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Very true. I give him the benefit of doubt on all those points. I also think he had a better career than Brodeur who was fortunate enough to play his prime years in the dead puck era on a team reknown for the trap game. Plus Roy has more accolades. I can think of one right now, but can you name a goalie in the expansion era until now that can be classified as greater than Roy

Expansion era as in post 1967?

Ken Dryden
Hasek
Brodeur

All three would be competitive. And I think all three were more consistent.

I hated Hasek but he's undeniably better. Just an insane goalie.

Ken Dryden, I think you can make a really good case for. Really different careers with Dryden being insanely good over a short period of time. Crazy good teams. Brodeur and Roy are really interesting. When Roy was 'on' he was insanely good. Maybe better than anyone. But he wasn't always on. I liked the consistency of Brodeur better.

All of those goalies would be ranked higher than anything beyond 2000. 2000 and beyond the two goalies I think are the best would be Lundqvist and Price. Hank never won and Price is unlikley to win anything unless maybe if he's moved.

As mentioned before, put Price or Lundqvist on different teams and this is a totally different conversation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not just the high danger saves it's his overall work. Hasek was not gifted with a supertramp like Roy or others in various eras and yet he consistently had amazing overall stats whereas Roy never had amazing stats in his career relative to his counterparts

I hated Hasek. Hated the way he played. Always thought he was lucky. Just looked like a total clown rolling around out there.

But he put up crazy numbers again and again and again... he always found a way to get in front of the puck. God he was frustrating to watch. At some point you realize that it's not luck.

 

[Sorinth]

It's not just the high danger saves it's his overall work. Hasek was not gifted with a supertramp like Roy or others in various eras and yet he consistently had amazing overall stats whereas Roy never had amazing stats in his career relative to his counterparts

Sure but in some ways it's easier to get a good save percentage if the team is giving up tons of shots because in most cases a higher % of shots is of the low danger shots. Whereas with say Brodeur, he faced so few shots that every goal had a much bigger impact on his stats.

But anyways overall I agree Hasek was the best, and had he played on one of the good teams in his prime he'd have a large number of cups.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Expansion era as in post 1967?

Ken Dryden
Hasek
Brodeur

All three would be competitive. And I think all three were more consistent.

I hated Hasek but he's undeniably better. Just an insane goalie.

Ken Dryden, I think you can make a really good case for. Really different careers with Dryden being insanely good over a short period of time. Crazy good teams. Brodeur and Roy are really interesting. When Roy was 'on' he was insanely good. Maybe better than anyone. But he wasn't always on. I liked the consistency of Brodeur better.

All of those goalies would be ranked higher than anything beyond 2000. 2000 and beyond the two goalies I think are the best would be Lundqvist and Price. Hank never won and Price is unlikley to win anything unless maybe if he's moved.

As mentioned before, put Price or Lundqvist on different teams and this is a totally different conversation.

We are arguing different things. I do not think Roy is the best goalie ever. I am however saying he's the greatest. Ken Dryden was Lucky to be on a top 3 dynasty of all time. Put price or Roy on those teams and I think they do better. The debate for the greatest I'd Roy vs Brodeur but the other goalies are on the debate list for best not greatest besides Dryden but I don't think Dryden is greater than Roy just the recipient of greatness, same as other individuals on that team

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I hated Hasek. Hated the way he played. Always thought he was lucky. Just looked like a total clown rolling around out there.

But he put up crazy numbers again and again and again... he always found a way to get in front of the puck. God he was frustrating to watch. At some point you realize that it's not luck.

He's the anti price

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We are arguing different things. I do not think Roy is the best goalie ever. I am however saying he's the greatest. Ken Dryden was Lucky to be on a top 3 dynasty of all time. Put price or Roy on those teams and I think they do better. The debate for the greatest I'd Roy vs Brodeur but the other goalies are on the debate list for best not greatest besides Dryden but I don't think Dryden is greater than Roy just the recipient of greatness, same as other individuals on that team

1971. Look it up.

Then go look at how those Hab teams did without Dryden.

 

[azcanuck]

Nobody made more spectacular saves consistently than Hasek. He was a beast. Followed closely by Roy.

Roy went to Colorado and they started winning Cups. That's not a coincidence. He had that aura about him that elevated and inspired his mates. He rose to the occasion in the playoffs. those are gifts. They are not "luck" like some would suggest

Dryden played in front of some of the greatest teams i've ever seen. He was still a great goalie but shorter career by his choosing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nobody made more spectacular saves consistently than Hasek. He was a beast. Followed closely by Roy.

Roy went to Colorado and they started winning Cups. That's not a coincidence. He had that aura about him that elevated and inspired his mates. He rose to the occasion in the playoffs. those are gifts. They are not "luck" like some would suggest

Dryden played in front of some of the greatest teams i've ever seen. He was still a great goalie but shorter career by his choosing.

Roy in Colorado is the same as Dryden on those later Montreal teams.

1971 remains the greatest cup run by any single player in history. Did it on an over the hill team. Absolutely unbelievable performance. Better than even Hasek's 99 run. Beating the powerhouse Bruins was unthinkable. Then Dryden does the same to Chicago. Wins the cup and Smythe before he even wins the Calder.

And Ken Dryden didn't cost his teams the playoff series that Roy did against Boston.

 

[BLONG7]

Hasek would've won a million cups if he was on Colorado.

Those Avs teams were amazing.....another team with quite a few hall of famers on it....