OT: Career advice

[East Coast Bias]

There is just absolutely nothing full time near my salary and experience level. I do not buy this "great economy" nonsense and 3.8% unemployment BS.

Reality in the IT/finance world. Its bad.

I've been in finance/insurance IT for 15 years. It gets worse every day. Constant threats to just lay off the whole area and go with outsourcing. Constantly wasting my time on industry standard documentation/record keeping, problem logging, etc. Absolute bullshit that is a complete waste of time. Arguing with management that will be gone in 3 years b/c they constantly move around.

I went from loving my job to absolutely hating it in 5 years. It sucks.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Don't think I've ever cried, but I have punched a wall. I've screamed when I've gotten back to my car.

This past Friday I got into an argument on a call. Thankfully, it was only three people. I was not going to be continually disrespected. I told her that and hung up.

I could go on for days as to what's happened over the last few months, but unfortunately, most of it is confidential, and don't want to post anything that would be used against me if I take legal action.

Still TRYING my damnedest to leave! There is just absolutely nothing full time near my salary and experience level. I do not buy this "great economy" nonsense and 3.8% unemployment BS.

It isn't BS and I can honestly stand here all day and back that up with as much data as needed. I'm not just saying that to blow smoke either, recruiting and hiring is what I do for a living. Just because there aren't enough opportunities for your field in the area that you live, doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere. All the hiring data as well as compensation data HAS continuously pointed to the most favorable market for job seekers in 50+ years. We have had to raise our starting salary twice just to try to keep up with other companies. Job seekers are turning down offers in record numbers because of all the options available. Will this continue to be the case? Doubtful.

The higher you climb and the more specialized you become, the fewer opportunities that exist. That has always, and will always be the case.

The other thing I will add, to kind of piggyback off of @East Coast Bias point, things are changing in the IT world. While I am not as in touch with it as I used to be (I did specialized IT recruiting for a while about 7 years ago), competition for jobs is actually increasing in that field. 10-15 years ago Universities and Colleges began to heavily invest in IT programs at their schools and made a big push for students to consider IT as a career choice. The supply of IT folks, while I think is still somewhat scarce, isn't nearly as scarce as it used to be.

 

[NCRanger]

It isn't BS and I can honestly stand here all day and back that up with as much data as needed. I'm not just saying that to blow smoke either, recruiting and hiring is what I do for a living. Just because there aren't enough opportunities for your field in the area that you live, doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere. All the hiring data as well as compensation data HAS continuously pointed to the most favorable market for job seekers in 50+ years. We have had to raise our starting salary twice just to try to keep up with other companies. Job seekers are turning down offers in record numbers because of all the options available. Will this continue to be the case? Doubtful.

The higher you climb and the more specialized you become, the fewer opportunities that exist. That has always, and will always be the case.

The other thing I will add, to kind of piggyback off of @East Coast Bias point, things are changing in the IT world. While I am not as in touch with it as I used to be (I did specialized IT recruiting for a while about 7 years ago), competition for jobs is actually increasing in that field. 10-15 years ago Universities and Colleges began to heavily invest in IT programs at their schools and made a big push for students to consider IT as a career choice. The supply of IT folks, while I think is still somewhat scarce, isn't nearly as scarce as it used to be.

If I could point you to my company's internal comment board.

People are not getting promoted, people are not getting raises, people are not able to even move laterally. The health insurance is almost as bad as if you just were paying out of your own pocket.

Yet no one can actually leave for better.

That's what I find astounding. I hear record this and record that. I have my resume all over the place and all I get are e-mails and phone calls from less than reputable recruiters for 6 month contracts. The more reputable recruiters ask me if I know anyone who'd be willing to work for rates not seen since 2004. I just don't buy it.

Now, if I was 26 and wanted a entry-level or mid-range job, they're all over the place.

 

[NCRanger]

Reality in the IT/finance world. Its bad.

I've been in finance/insurance IT for 15 years. It gets worse every day. Constant threats to just lay off the whole area and go with outsourcing. Constantly wasting my time on industry standard documentation/record keeping, problem logging, etc. Absolute bull**** that is a complete waste of time. Arguing with management that will be gone in 3 years b/c they constantly move around.

I went from loving my job to absolutely hating it in 5 years. It sucks.

I've been at my job for about 6 1/2 years. 6 years as an FTE next Monday. The first 2 1/2, liked it. Liked it a lot.

September 2015 - new tech manager hired. Immediately clashes with my manager.

March 2016 - my manager leaves due to the stress. I end up taking over some of his tasks and many of my more "analyst" tasks go to contractors. Never actually promoted.

Now, I was supposed to just "know" to do things during all this time, i.e. the tech manager started clashing with me over total nonsense. This went on for years. I start other roles too, like being a release coordinator, project manager, and a SCRUM master, because SOMEONE had to keep the 60+ developers work statuses somewhere. Not really doing a lot of actual "analyst" work now. Meanwhile, our application is radically changing, and nobody is documenting it because "there's no time" and the manager's way of solving problems is throwing bodies at it.

Now, I no longer report to the tech manager directly (won't go into as to why).

I now report to someone who realizes I should be that person.

However, with the change, I'm now demoted back to an "analyst" on an application I really have no idea how it works now. And nobody on the team respects me enough to help me out.

The only thing I can do is leave.

Not only was I passed over for what was rightfully mine, and then demoted to a job I really can't do anymore.

 

[Thordic]

Study: 8 out of 10 people have cried at work

Interesting stat. And what % of the 2 remaining lied? I don't remember if I ever cried AT work but I have cried because of work. I probably did cry at work at some point. My last job before this was utter hell.

Jesus christ. Makes me appreciate my job a lot more. It has its good days and bad days, and sometimes its stressful as hell, but it's never made me cry.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If I could point you to my company's internal comment board.

People are not getting promoted, people are not getting raises, people are not able to even move laterally. The health insurance is almost as bad as if you just were paying out of your own pocket.

Yet no one can actually leave for better.

That's what I find astounding. I hear record this and record that. I have my resume all over the place and all I get are e-mails and phone calls from less than reputable recruiters for 6 month contracts. The more reputable recruiters ask me if I know anyone who'd be willing to work for rates not seen since 2004. I just don't buy it.

Now, if I was 26 and wanted a entry-level or mid-range job, they're all over the place.

You and I have discussed your situation a lot and I am sorry it isn't where you want it to be but you're using your own personal experience to make claims about 49 other states, hundreds of other cities and thousands of other companies. Your experience in IT in North Carolina will certainly be different from someone in a another state. The data that exists doesn't support your claim on a national level. Now, if you want to talk about the impact nationwide of salary compression that is a much different conversation and could be part reason why you're having such a hard time meeting your salary requirements in the job search. If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to share some personal details that might enlighten/help you moving forward.

What you're dealing with as far as recruiters are concerned, are entry level recruiters who have no idea what they are doing. They just know the less they pay you, the more they make in margin. As a former IT recruiter, I can say with certainty they can generally pay you 25-35% more than they are initially offering. That is, if you're willing to negotiate.

I don't know what company you work for and what the specifics are but company internal comment boards are generally filled with the most dissatisfied individuals who enjoy the echo chamber of how unhappy they all are. People who go to such places and don't share in said misery are generally run out ASAP. It happens at almost every company out there.

 

[East Coast Bias]

It isn't BS and I can honestly stand here all day and back that up with as much data as needed. I'm not just saying that to blow smoke either, recruiting and hiring is what I do for a living. Just because there aren't enough opportunities for your field in the area that you live, doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere. All the hiring data as well as compensation data HAS continuously pointed to the most favorable market for job seekers in 50+ years. We have had to raise our starting salary twice just to try to keep up with other companies. Job seekers are turning down offers in record numbers because of all the options available. Will this continue to be the case? Doubtful.

The higher you climb and the more specialized you become, the fewer opportunities that exist. That has always, and will always be the case.

The other thing I will add, to kind of piggyback off of @East Coast Bias point, things are changing in the IT world. While I am not as in touch with it as I used to be (I did specialized IT recruiting for a while about 7 years ago), competition for jobs is actually increasing in that field. 10-15 years ago Universities and Colleges began to heavily invest in IT programs at their schools and made a big push for students to consider IT as a career choice. The supply of IT folks, while I think is still somewhat scarce, isn't nearly as scarce as it used to be.

Yeah I was speaking directly to IT only, more specifically Finance/Insurance IT. It's a hard place right now for some people depending on the role they're in.

To further this, there's an increasing effort to limit long-term commitments in the IT world. Which means more roles being filled by contractors, more strategy being offloaded to management consultants, and operations pushed to outsourcing. So it's hard.

It's all about getting to a place for the company where they can react to trends and market moves with the least cost as possible. It's a lot easier to not renew the contract of 25 PMs than it is to lay them off and pay severance.

If you want to bounce around, hell, it's your world. But for someone like me, 35 with a wife and kid, a mortgage, etc - not the best world.

 

[sbjnyc]

I work for an insurance company in NY. We've been trying to fill job openings in IT related positions outside NY (not NC though) with no luck but were able to fill them in NY. That is due to office and not salary though we have different pay schedules depending on your location. One of the problems I've seen is that people can do well and get raises but eventually wind up being overpaid for their position. Sometimes if you want to make a move you either need to either accept a lower salary for the same job or try to land a more senior position at the same salary. It depends on the local market.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Don't think I've ever cried, but I have punched a wall. I've screamed when I've gotten back to my car.

This past Friday I got into an argument on a call. Thankfully, it was only three people. I was not going to be continually disrespected. I told her that and hung up.

I could go on for days as to what's happened over the last few months, but unfortunately, most of it is confidential, and don't want to post anything that would be used against me if I take legal action.

Still TRYING my damnedest to leave! There is just absolutely nothing full time near my salary and experience level. I do not buy this "great economy" nonsense and 3.8% unemployment BS.

So many people in the last 3.5 years since I graduated from business school have lost their job, some multiple times. I have a friend with a stellar resume that can't even get an interview. Life is just brutal.

 

[CasusBelli]

Reality in the IT/finance world. Its bad.

I've been in finance/insurance IT for 15 years. It gets worse every day. Constant threats to just lay off the whole area and go with outsourcing. Constantly wasting my time on industry standard documentation/record keeping, problem logging, etc. Absolute bull**** that is a complete waste of time. Arguing with management that will be gone in 3 years b/c they constantly move around.

I went from loving my job to absolutely hating it in 5 years. It sucks.

This. Ever since Dodd-Frank, finance just hasn’t been the same. I would spend as much time worrying about KYC and AML documentation as I would on the actual work. Weeks would go into a deal only to have compliance shut it down out of fear that audit might give us grief over some minutiae. That’s why I left a bulge bracket bank for an alternative asset manager. Good riddance!

 

[Kupo]

My left lower molar broke in half a few days ago. My nerve is infected and I need a root canal and crown.

$4,000 is the estimated cost.

4 MOTHER****ING THOUSAND.

Want career advice? Don’t become a marketing director for an auto group.

Become a tooth fairy or Dentist — assuming you can’t make it as a porn star.

 

[CasusBelli]

My left lower molar broke in half a few days ago. My nerve is infected and I need a root canal and crown.

$4,000 is the estimated cost.

4 MOTHER****ING THOUSAND.

Want career advice? Don’t become a marketing director for an auto group.

Become a tooth fairy or Dentist — assuming you can’t make it as a porn star.

I feel you brother. Went through something similar several years ago in between jobs. Brutal — as if the toothache weren’t bad enough.

 

[Greg02]

I always think about this tweet

 

[NCRanger]

I really despise unprofessional recruiters that fish using e-mail. Especially ones that probably just broke the law.

I just got one from a recruiter in Colorado for a position at my company. Not like I haven't been here 6 years and any copy of my resume that I may have shared states that I am currently employed. Obviously, this one isn't all that sharp.

But that's not the worst of it. The recruiter left EVERYONE'S E-MAIL ADDRESS IN THE TO LINE! The 100 or so people that got this e-mail had their e-mail address shared unwillingly. Who the heck knows who just got my e-mail address or anyone else's. WHO DOES THAT? In this day and age of worrying about cyber crime, AN IT RECRUITER SENDS A MASS E-MAIL WITH ADDRESSES PUBLICLY EXPOSED!

 

[patnyrnyg]

It isn't BS and I can honestly stand here all day and back that up with as much data as needed. I'm not just saying that to blow smoke either, recruiting and hiring is what I do for a living. Just because there aren't enough opportunities for your field in the area that you live, doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere. All the hiring data as well as compensation data HAS continuously pointed to the most favorable market for job seekers in 50+ years. We have had to raise our starting salary twice just to try to keep up with other companies. Job seekers are turning down offers in record numbers because of all the options available. Will this continue to be the case? Doubtful.

The higher you climb and the more specialized you become, the fewer opportunities that exist. That has always, and will always be the case.

The other thing I will add, to kind of piggyback off of @East Coast Bias point, things are changing in the IT world. While I am not as in touch with it as I used to be (I did specialized IT recruiting for a while about 7 years ago), competition for jobs is actually increasing in that field. 10-15 years ago Universities and Colleges began to heavily invest in IT programs at their schools and made a big push for students to consider IT as a career choice. The supply of IT folks, while I think is still somewhat scarce, isn't nearly as scarce as it used to be.

Unemployment numbers do not include the UNDER-employed which is now a bigger problem in this country. It also does not include those who are unemployed but no longer file for Unemployment Benefits.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Unemployment numbers do not include the UNDER-employed which is now a bigger problem in this country. It also does not include those who are unemployed but no longer file for Unemployment Benefits.

You're talking about the U-3, U-5, U-6, etc and their differences. Underemployment is not a new phenomenon, it has been a huge problem for the last 10+ years.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Been working on a financial model all week. Long hours but rewarding. I really really hope that Corporate Finance is where I have my career from now on. It's nice to have a career path that's common, in NY, and I'm interested in.

 

[CasusBelli]

Been working on a financial model all week. Long hours but rewarding. I really really hope that Corporate Finance is where I have my career from now on. It's nice to have a career path that's common, in NY, and I'm interested in.

Definitely the way to go in NYC.

Same on my end: been working 9-11 every weekday for the past month or so and some weekends. But if you love the work, and you believe in what you’re doing, the time flies. It’s actually fun.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Definitely the way to go in NYC.

Same on my end: been working 9-11 every weekday for the past month or so and some weekends. But if you love the work, and you believe in what you’re doing, the time flies. It’s actually fun.

Yeah, it's not bad. I'm almost done with the model. I spent the last 4 or 5 hours trying to figure something out and either I don't understand exactly what I'm supposed to model or it's impossible to model it. Tomorrow I wave the white flag and go to my boss and say "4 or 5 hours for one problem is my limit please help."

If anyone cares:

Trying to make sure that we use enough credit to always have at least $25k on hand in cash. The problem is that financial statements are circular in nature. So if I'm trying to optimize one cell, I keep getting circular references. If I try to find the amount of money that I'm spending on the loan based off cash and cash is based off net income and part of net income is interest expense that relies on the loan, I have a circular formula. I can't figure out how to fix it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objective.

 

[CasusBelli]

Yeah, it's not bad. I'm almost done with the model. I spent the last 4 or 5 hours trying to figure something out and either I don't understand exactly what I'm supposed to model or it's impossible to model it. Tomorrow I wave the white flag and go to my boss and say "4 or 5 hours for one problem is my limit please help."

If anyone cares:

Trying to make sure that we use enough credit to always have at least $25k on hand in cash. The problem is that financial statements are circular in nature. So if I'm trying to optimize one cell, I keep getting circular references. If I try to find the amount of money that I'm spending on the loan based off cash and cash is based off net income and part of net income is interest expense that relies on the loan, I have a circular formula. I can't figure out how to fix it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objective.

Sounds like you need Solver. The 25k minimum is your constraint. I presume you want to otherwise maximize or minimize some other parameter.

 

[pblawr]

Yeah, it's not bad. I'm almost done with the model. I spent the last 4 or 5 hours trying to figure something out and either I don't understand exactly what I'm supposed to model or it's impossible to model it. Tomorrow I wave the white flag and go to my boss and say "4 or 5 hours for one problem is my limit please help."

If anyone cares:

Trying to make sure that we use enough credit to always have at least $25k on hand in cash. The problem is that financial statements are circular in nature. So if I'm trying to optimize one cell, I keep getting circular references. If I try to find the amount of money that I'm spending on the loan based off cash and cash is based off net income and part of net income is interest expense that relies on the loan, I have a circular formula. I can't figure out how to fix it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objective.

try "file->options->formulas-> enable iterative calculations."

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Sounds like you need Solver. The 25k minimum is your constraint. I presume you want to otherwise maximize or minimize some other parameter.

Yeah I was thinking of that but solver has one objective unless I'm misunderstanding here I'd need to change every month. I used solver when I thought it was a one month loan.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

try "file->options->formulas-> enable iterative calculations."

Interesting, thanks.

 

[CasusBelli]

Yeah I was thinking of that but solver has one objective unless I'm misunderstanding here I'd need to change every month. I used solver when I thought it was a one month loan.

Yes. One objective but multiple decision variables. You need to find a way to combine those variables into expressions that connect them. Maybe you can compartmentalize the problem into sub problems — optimize locally and then aggregate into a global optimum?

 

[CasusBelli]

Interesting, thanks.

Interesting, thanks.

Or we could go the easy route