Confirmed with Link: [CAR/VAN] Canucks acquire D Ethan Bear (18% retained), C Lane Pederson for 5th Round Pick in '23

[pitseleh]

I mean, if they do dumb shit like the Boeser contract, sure it will.

It's the same f***ing plan Florida had. It's the only plan that they could really take from the position they were left in.

Again, any plan involving tanking is video game shit not operating in reality and if you're basing your takes off that as your preferred baseline expectation ... all you've done is set yourself up for disappointment.

I agree with you on the comparisons to Benning. The other part is the age gap thing made no sense given the team’s circumstances - the players they brought weren’t expected to be good at the end of the Sedin window and were too old to be around for the next core. It’s fine to bring in good players but taking risky bets in that context doesn’t make much sense.

That said, outside Dermott/Bear, I don’t really see the parallel to Florida either. They’ve been ruthless at letting go of players entering their decline phase - all of their players of any consequence are 28 or under - and only Barkov and Tkachuk have term beyond two years from now. Hornqvist is the only exception and he was traded for to get a much longer contract off the books. Plus all of the players they have targeted are under 25 and showed upside.

Nothing else this management group has done is really consistent with that. (I’m still not sure if what Florida is doing is smart or insane, but that’s another story.)

 

[credulous]

i don't get the florida comparisons either. they let dadonov walk. they let hoffman walk. they traded trochek. they traded connolly. they acquired hornqvist but that was to get out from matheson's deal

florida was absolutely ruthless about discarding their best players if they could get younger and faster

 

[arttk]

I mean, if they do dumb shit like the Boeser contract, sure it will.

It's the same f***ing plan Florida had. It's the only plan that they could really take from the position they were left in.

Again, any plan involving tanking is video game shit not operating in reality and if you're basing your takes off that as your preferred baseline expectation ... all you've done is set yourself up for disappointment.

I think the Boeser contract is a calculated gamble. Boeser probably had little to no value in the summer, he was not signed and his QO was stupid high. I think people really overestimated what we could’ve gotten in return.
I think they looked at it and saw two options. It’s either letting him go for minimal return and freeing up 6+M. The other option is signing Boeser to a short term contract and doing their best to rehab him and get some value for him 1-2 years down the road.
They took option 2 probably because we are asset poor as f*** and they really have no expectation for this year(they would never say this in public) so they might as roll the dice and bet on Boeser rebounding and then they can get some value back.

If by the end of this, they can get like a 1st round in value back, I don’t see any issues with it. Of course people will feel like omg opportunity lost, we could’ve improve so much by using that cap space, realistically that 6.6M is not going to improve the club that much considering what is available in UFA and what is available in cap dump land.

 

[F A N]

I like this trade. I think Bear can be a serviceable #4/#5 as long as his salary is commensurate. I also think that if things go decently he can be traded at the deadline to recoup the pick we lost so it's worth a shot.

Benning coined the age gap nonsense strategy, new management just stated a very similar reasoning...

I'm pretty sure that was Weisbrod. Jay Feaster was talking about age gap when he was GM of the Flames.

 

[arttk]

I like this trade. I think Bear can be a serviceable #4/#5 as long as his salary is commensurate. I also think that if things go decently he can be traded at the deadline to recoup the pick we lost so it's worth a shot.



I'm pretty sure that was Weisbrod. Jay Feaster was talking about age gap when he was GM of the Flames.

Anything that is incredibly stupid but wrapped with a veneer of pseudo intelligence is probably Weisbrod.

 

[Get North]

A 3rd round pick for Andrey Pedan is way worse than a 5th round pick for Ethan Bear.

Fans just want to see a Stanley Cup. These minor league players / bottom pairing NHLers are nothing moves. We're a sitting duck until the deadline most likely in terms of "significant" moves. The season will speak for itself considering we have a ton of homegrown talent.

 

[Ruthervin]

Not sure if the long term plan is to put Bear with Hughes but I'm not sure if that pairing would work well together. Both guys are offensive-minded defensemen that tend to struggle on the defensive side of things. I'd strongly consider going....

OEL-Bear
Hughes-Schenn/Burroughs
Burroughs/Schenn/Stillman-Myers

I'd try and find a way to get Rathbone in there so that he can grow his game. I like JR on the 2nd unit PP.

 

[F A N]

A 3rd round pick for Andrey Pedan is way worse than a 5th round pick for Ethan Bear.

In hindsight yes. In theory, it really depends. Another way to look at it is that when we acquired Pedan he was at Woo's age last season and Pedan had shown more progression.

Pedan had for the most part been developing well post draft and still had two years of waiver exemption left at the time of acquisition. There was a lot to like about Pedan, he just didn't continue to progress.

Bear is obviously an established Dman. But as Hurricanes' fans would attest, Carolina could have easily let him go last summer and he would have been available via free agency. You're not likely getting a 25 year old right shot top 4 Dman for years to come here. You're more likely getting a Ben Hutton type (when he left here) who sees himself as a top 4 Dman and wants to be paid like one.

 

[sting101]

I see Bear being the player that replaces Myers. Allows us to remove that 6 million and replace it with a legit top3 D that is good while losing almost nothing from Myers to Bear by the time they get his confidence back.

Poolman will be LTIRd or bought out if he plans on trying to play. Bear takes his cap hit.

Smart move by management I believe if they can pull it off.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think the Boeser contract is a calculated gamble. Boeser probably had little to no value in the summer, he was not signed and his QO was stupid high. I think people really overestimated what we could’ve gotten in return.
I think they looked at it and saw two options. It’s either letting him go for minimal return and freeing up 6+M. The other option is signing Boeser to a short term contract and doing their best to rehab him and get some value for him 1-2 years down the road.
They took option 2 probably because we are asset poor as f*** and they really have no expectation for this year(they would never say this in public) so they might as roll the dice and bet on Boeser rebounding and then they can get some value back.

If by the end of this, they can get like a 1st round in value back, I don’t see any issues with it. Of course people will feel like omg opportunity lost, we could’ve improve so much by using that cap space, realistically that 6.6M is not going to improve the club that much considering what is available in UFA and what is available in cap dump land.

Agree with your assesment of their logic with Boeser.

And if the bolded part is true, I am on board with their plan too.


edit.

I think people who bought in to what OEL and Myers and Miller were able to do last year are far more optimistic with pushing forward with this group and chipping away the edges to improve it.

I never did. Last year OEL & Myers pefromerd to like the 99th percentile of what could be expected from them. They have already show regression to the mean this year, in OELs case so far the pendulum has swung harder.

I also never bought in to Miller being a 1st line ppg type C. The sample size was far too small and all his puck luck metrics were way elevated.

Even with these two things going our way last year AND with the Bruce there it is -phenomena AND our team staying incredibly heathy AND Demko giving us just about the best 5on5 goalie performance in the league; We still weren't good enough for playoffs, let alone hanging with the top teams in the league.

I also never bought the idea that Brock Boeser is now the husk of a former NHL players he looked at many times last year. The sample size is far too small and we were only 1 season removed from him being our most productive forward. This is why I think resigning him to a short term contract was a good bet SINCE we shouldn't be competing for anything these next 2 years anyways.

I know @MS has tried to call me out multiple times that I am over reacting to the 7 game losing streak. I think the opposite is true, he is overreacting to what we saw last season.

 

[Vector]

Here's a really interesting article by Cam Charron about Bear in The Athletic.

Basically, Bear is the best Canuck defencemen at puck retrieval. His body positioning has been excellent and has the cleanest zone exits on the team. OEL's game has stabilized since being paired with Bear.

Ethan Bear has been the Canucks’ best defenceman at preventing the opposition from recovering pucks, and it isn’t particularly close. His intelligence and his strength, despite his size (Bear is listed at 5-foot-11 and 197 lbs, while the average NHL defenceman is about 6-2 and 205), has allowed him to gain position on opponents and win battles in the corner, freeing up pucks for his defensive partner.

 

[VanJack]

A 3rd round pick for Andrey Pedan is way worse than a 5th round pick for Ethan Bear.

Fans just want to see a Stanley Cup. These minor league players / bottom pairing NHLers are nothing moves. We're a sitting duck until the deadline most likely in terms of "significant" moves. The season will speak for itself considering we have a ton of homegrown talent.

What about Forsling for Adam Clendening, another Hawks d-man? Forsling scored for the Panthers last night.
And Clendening? He just turned 30 and is firmly ensconced on the AHL for the Rockford Ice Hogs.

The Canucks should declare a 'moratorium' on acquiring any more d-men from the Hawks.

 

[Hoglander]

What about Forsling for Adam Clendening, another Hawks d-man? Forsling scored for the Panthers last night.
And Clendening? He just turned 30 and is firmly ensconced on the AHL for the Rockford Ice Hogs.

The Canucks should declare a 'moratorium' on acquiring any more d-men from the Hawks.

Another mind-numbing awful trade for an absolute slug. AC could not skate at an NHL level, that is some next-level garbage pro scouting. Woof

Not that it would have mattered, because Forsling spent parts of 4 seasons in the AHL, and our affiliate is/has been a prospect graveyard for the last decade. He wouldn't have developed here anyway, and Willie D/Travis G wouldn't have done him any favors on the big club.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Another mind-numbing awful trade for an absolute slug. AC could not skate at an NHL level, that is some next-level garbage pro scouting. Woof

Not that it would have mattered, because Forsling spent parts of 4 seasons in the AHL, and our affiliate is/has been a prospect graveyard for the last decade. He wouldn't have developed here anyway, and Willie D/Travis G wouldn't have done him any favors on the big club.

Cull would have him very comfortable in the pressbox for those 4 years.

 

[mossey3535]

Here's a really interesting article by Cam Charron about Bear in The Athletic.

Basically, Bear is the best Canuck defencemen at puck retrieval. His body positioning has been excellent and has the cleanest zone exits on the team. OEL's game has stabilized since being paired with Bear.

Ethan Bear has been the Canucks’ best defenceman at preventing the opposition from recovering pucks, and it isn’t particularly close. His intelligence and his strength, despite his size (Bear is listed at 5-foot-11 and 197 lbs, while the average NHL defenceman is about 6-2 and 205), has allowed him to gain position on opponents and win battles in the corner, freeing up pucks for his defensive partner.

View attachment 616090

Myers is absolute trash.

 

[Vector]

 

[PuckMunchkin]

"His puck management might be the worst on Vancouver's D right now."

Nah. I like Cam's stuff, but that is just insanity.

 

[Vector]

"His puck management might be the worst on Vancouver's D right now."

Nah. I like Cam's stuff, but that is just insanity.

I was going to ask him if he's aware Stillman and Myers exist.

 

[tantalum]

"His puck management might be the worst on Vancouver's D right now."

Nah. I like Cam's stuff, but that is just insanity.

Especially when there is a chart by Cam from Dec 1 showing the his recovery and puck movement has been good. Seems a strange tweet 4 days later.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Oh, I'm definitely realizing that some people were liking my posts more because of the anger than the content, and that some people weren't actually reading what I was saying at all. And that some people have just gotten used to being angry hot take merchants, I think.

I was 'king pessimist' because things were so incredibly so obviously so incompetent, not because I enjoyed being negative. I was one of the most positive people here during the Gillis years, aside from when it came to evaluating prospects. And I try to take my time before coming to conclusions and allow things to play out before fully evaluating. Right now things are not incredibly obviously incompetent, so I'm not going to be extremely negative. And I'm not going to allow prior events to taint my perception of current events.

If, a year from now, things look like a total clusterf***, then I will again be very negative.

I never took you to be pessimistic at all.

 

[rypper]

I was going to ask him if he's aware Stillman and Myers exist.

 

[Vector]

Never mind, analytics are trash.

 

[supercanuck]

I want to see them try Bear with QH for 10 games and see what we have there.

 

[Bubbles]

Just realized this.

Aman - Bear - Hoglander

Need a perfectly timed photo of all three.

 

[4Twenty]

He looks decent and the xG% looks decent but the actual goal results are poor, like Stillman poor.

A little too much praise for this move so far.