GDT: CAR-DET. Take your BP medicine early because you're gonna need it.

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,351
39,337
With the goal Koch gave up, it wasn't great, but I definitely put it on Pesce and Necas having a cluster of a breakout and a lackluster job of getting back from the mistake by Pesce as much as Koch. You'd still like to see the save but we can do better there in front of him. It's just like there was much blame for Raanta in Vancouver on the final goal but the defender (Aho maybe?) did zilch to stop him from getting the wrap chance.
 

AD Skinner

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
12,907
39,051
bubble bath
Its water under the bridge but I kinda disagree on that one. Aho was draped on the guy coming behind the net. Even if he hadn’t been, raanta did a pretty poor job anticipating that he was going to try a wrap around. Maybe he thought he saw a pass developing that he was trying to cheat toward but I don’t know how else he wasn’t thinking “I got to seal off this post”. But I was not a goalie so my thoughts on goalie play should probably be taken with a whole shaker of salt
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Davis

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
20,866
80,504
Durm
Its water under the bridge but I kinda disagree on that one. Aho was draped on the guy coming behind the net. Even if he hadn’t been, raanta did a pretty poor job anticipating that he was going to try a wrap around. Maybe he thought he saw a pass developing that he was trying to cheat toward but I don’t know how else he wasn’t thinking “I got to deal off this post”. But I was not a goalie so my thoughts on goalie play should probably be taken with a whole shaker of salt
That explains why Kooch couldn't stop that shot....Raanta was in his way.
 

WreckingCrew

Registered User
Feb 4, 2015
12,271
37,811
That explains why Kooch couldn't stop that shot....Raanta was in his way.
I was just about to reply about that as well.

It definitely looks like we took our B(ill) P(eters) medicine, 40 shots, 1 goal (+ a gimme from Husso), he would be proud!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MinJaBen

LakeLivin

Armchair Quarterback
Mar 11, 2016
4,709
13,561
North Carolina
It’s the very last one but we are sitting back in a playoff spot this morning

I hate to be "that guy", but not really. Although the NHL lists it's standings by points we know that in the event of unequal games played it's point percentage that determines positioning. Canes are currently 4th in the race for the 2 wild card spots.

I still don't understand why the NHL lists it's standings by points. I guess it's tradition, or maybe they think some of their fanbase doesn't have the capacity to understand anything except raw points?
 

Derailed75

Registered User
Jan 5, 2021
4,709
11,295
Danville
I hate to be "that guy", but not really. Although the NHL lists it's standings by points we know that in the event of unequal games played it's point percentage that determines positioning. Canes are currently 4th in the race for the 2 wild card spots.

I still don't understand why the NHL lists it's standings by points. I guess it's tradition, or maybe they think some of their fanbase doesn't have the capacity to understand anything except raw points?

Thats not necessarily true. The playoff are predicated in points not points percentage. Since every team barring some catastrophe will play the same amount of games points percentage means nothing

TL:DR i like to be contrarian
 

AD Skinner

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
12,907
39,051
bubble bath
I don’t disagree about the idea of points percentage being a more accurate barometer, but the thing about games in hand is that you still have to win them. The points you’ve already got, you’ve already got. There’s no maybe or probability or likelihood about it.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,357
97,926
I like how on the Wings goal replay, Weekes(?) says "he sees that daylight short side" but the replay shows Rasmussen has his head down before receiving the pass, keeps it down and never even looks at the goal until the shot is leaving his stick.
 

Lempo

Recovering Future Considerations Truther
Sponsor
Feb 23, 2014
26,834
83,624
I hate to be "that guy", but not really. Although the NHL lists it's standings by points we know that in the event of unequal games played it's point percentage that determines positioning. Canes are currently 4th in the race for the 2 wild card spots.

I still don't understand why the NHL lists it's standings by points. I guess it's tradition, or maybe they think some of their fanbase doesn't have the capacity to understand anything except raw points?
No, sir:
Tie-Breaking Procedure
If two or more clubs are tied in points during the regular season, the standing of the clubs is determined in the following order:
1.The fewer number of games played (i.e., superior points percentage).
2.The greater number of games won, excluding games won in Overtime or by Shootout (i.e., 'Regulation Wins'). This figure is reflected in the RW column. etc.
It is very official that the points is the first determinator for the standings.
 

AhosDatsyukian

Registered User
Sep 25, 2020
11,020
32,127
At this point in the season none of it matters, and frankly despite our struggles we're not all that far behind. Rangers lose their 2 games in hand on us and we're 6 points back of 1st in the Metro. I may be off by a bit but I think around this time last year we were like 12 points behind the Devils. Then we went on a run and they lost a few and boom we were neck and neck and we eventually pulled away. I can't really see teams like the Isles and Caps and Flyers staying in the mix later in the year. Who knows, but I'm not concerned.
 

Lempo

Recovering Future Considerations Truther
Sponsor
Feb 23, 2014
26,834
83,624
I mean, every team starts with the goal of obtaining 164 points, and they have 82 chances for getting those. If one team is ahead another in points and in games, that means that they have made good with their available chances. The other team may have one or more chances more left, but you don't get to skin the bear before killing it.
 

cptjeff

Reprehensible User
Sep 18, 2008
20,616
34,896
Washington, DC.
If this team plays to its abilities, the playoffs won't be a problem.

If they don't, the playoffs might be a problem.

True of every team. Long season, typical ups and downs. Edmonton was an embarrassment for a while; now they're .500 and streaking.

It's December 15th and y'all are talking about playoff position. Come on, now.

Fun fact I heard when popping into the Edmonton-Tampa game during our intermissions last night- the Thanksgiving game against the Canes was the last time somebody had beaten the Oilers. Until last night, I guess. They went 20 days without a loss.

This is a playoff roster. But playoff quality rosters sometimes miss, because this is the NHL and there are no bad teams or easy nights. But if we take care of ourselves the standings will take care of themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Navin R Slavin

LakeLivin

Armchair Quarterback
Mar 11, 2016
4,709
13,561
North Carolina
I don’t disagree about the idea of points percentage being a more accurate barometer, but the thing about games in hand is that you still have to win them. The points you’ve already got, you’ve already got. There’s no maybe or probability or likelihood about it.

No, sir:

It is very official that the points is the first determinator for the standings.

I mean, every team starts with the goal of obtaining 164 points, and they have 82 chances for getting those. If one team is ahead another in points and in games, that means that they have made good with their available chances. The other team may have one or more chances more left, but you don't get to skin the bear before killing it.

Yes, the NHL lists points as being the official determinator for standings rather than points %. And it almost never matters because at the end of the season teams have played the same number of games, and points and points % give the same result. Yet, in spite of what the rules officially say, when a season did end with an uneven number of games played, the NHL used points % to determine the standings rather than points. Which makes sense, as that was the "fairest" thing to do.

Whenever this comes up I hear the argument that when determining standings you shouldn't "count" points not yet actually earned. I understand how that might seem to make sense; it may not seem right to assume that a team would earn points in games they have yet to play. Yet is it right to assume they wouldn't earn any, which is essentially what you're doing if you rank by raw points when an uneven number of games have been played?

A team with X games-in-hand could earn anywhere from 0 to 2X points if those games were played. If the goal in creating standings is to compare (and eventually reward) how well teams have performed, how do you account for that game-in-hand potential? The fairest (reasonably simple) method, one which is actually supported by the data, would be to "assume" they'd win at the same rate as they'd done up to that point. Of course there's no guarantee that's how it would turn out, but there's no better answer other than to actually play the same number of games.

Here's an extreme example. Assume Team A and Team B have played the same 5 teams but Team A has played each three times.

Team A: 5-9-1, 11 pts , 0.37 p%
Team B: 5-0-0, 10 pts, 1.00 p%

If the objective is to rank actual performance at that point in time, which team should be ranked higher? Let's say that was a complete season for Team A, Team B had those 10 games left, and they were competing for the last playoff spot. Which would you rather be? Would anyone really take Team A because they had those 11 points locked in? Yes, this is a ridiculous example but it does illustrate the problem with raw points.

As AD points out above, during the season it doesn't really matter since teams almost always end up playing the same number of games. It is kind of a sore point for me, because as a statistician (MS in stats, Biostatistician for a number of years), when I want to check out how teams have actually performed at any point in time, I can't help but manually try to make an adjustment for differences in games played, and if all I have are points that's kind of a pain in the ass.

Again, I'm aware of what the rules state, but I'm also aware that when it actually mattered and there was a difference between the two, the NHL actually used point %. Seems like they need to clean that up? Not directly related, but when the AHL had to use an unbalanced schedule (which is what the NHL standings are during the season) they used points %.
 

Lempo

Recovering Future Considerations Truther
Sponsor
Feb 23, 2014
26,834
83,624
Yet, in spite of what the rules officially say, when a season did end with an uneven number of games played, the NHL used points % to determine the standings rather than points. Which makes sense, as that was the "fairest" thing to do.
This is a very good point. But, the end-of-season standings and middle-of-season standings serve a different purpose from each other.

Obviously, when the season ends abruptly and with teams having played different amount of games, you can't punish a team for having been given a slower schedule by the league when the qualifying for the playoffs is in line.

But normally, during the mid-season, the standings serve only one purpose: to create buzz and talking points. Sports entertainment in their business, and the talking heads have something to chat and speculate about, when the other team has "games in hand" and is chasing the team officially ahead of it in the standings. It's not that the audiences are too stupid to understand that point percentage would be the better predictor, but rather the current way it just how the NHL corporation wants to package it to their audiences. The statistician approach would be for bespectacled people but it wouldn't make the spectacle they are going after. The optics of jocks and geeks may factor into it.
 

LakeLivin

Armchair Quarterback
Mar 11, 2016
4,709
13,561
North Carolina
. . .

The statistician approach would be for bespectacled people
but it wouldn't make the spectacle they are going after. The optics of jocks and geeks may factor into it.

Now you've got me trying to remember how I felt back when I wore contacts . . .
 

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
15,308
36,885
If this team plays to its abilities, the playoffs won't be a problem.

If they don't, the playoffs might be a problem.

True of every team. Long season, typical ups and downs. Edmonton was an embarrassment for a while; now they're .500 and streaking.

It's December 15th and y'all are talking about playoff position. Come on, now.
Fans have ptsd about the Canes like just getting home from Korean war.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tryamw

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad