Post-Game Talk: Caps vs. Panthers 3PM - CSN Washington)

[Hivemind]

Hillen and Green got their signals crossed there. The fault is every bit as much on Hillen as Green. It was a bad play, but lobbing everything at Green is just whipping the whipping boy.

 

[g00n]

You can't blame one player or the other on that play. It's a classic "I got it, you take it" muff like a tweener pop fly in baseball. If anything fault both players for locking in on the puck and not being at all aware of surroundings. And if you're Kuz you probably don't expect that kind of collision right in front of you.

Unless it happens fairly regularly it's just one of those things.

Although, these friendly fire collisions do seem to involve Green more than anyone else. Not sure if that's just ice time and probability due to position and chances, or something else.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I literally can't add anything re:Green that wouldn't be beating a dead horse into molecules.

Just... one way or another, Caps' would improve their chances by a ton if they could fix their cap allocation in a reasonable manner. Doesn't make sense to have an extra foot when you're missing a forearm. Sorry, horse, I guess.

I mean, some days I feel the same way about Green, but let's say you can move Chimera and Erskine, and then Mojo is needed as part of a package for whatever top-6 F you're pursuing. That's about $6M in cap space out--plenty of room to add said F, while keeping the defensive depth.

 

[BobRouse]

Good game yesterday.

Frustrated by all the penalties lately. Some are very much deserved but there are some very questionable ones out there too.

That Orpik penalty was just awful. Give the Panthers a 5 on 3 on a dive like that?

Whatever. Good teams win despite bad officiating.

Love what Orpik brings to the team. I cant remember the last time we had a legit NHL dman that takes the body as forcefully. (Well I can...Tinordi..but that was nearly 20 years ago...)

 

[txpd]

Brendan Witt

 

[BobRouse]

Brendan Witt

I loved Witt but he wasn't in Orpik or Tinordi's league that way. He wasn't nearly as consistently physical and perhaps that was due in part the the coaches he played for and the systems they used.

 

[txpd]

I loved Witt but he wasn't in Orpik or Tinordi's league that way. He wasn't nearly as consistently physical and perhaps that was due in part the the coaches he played for and the systems they used.

Well if the bar is to hit as hard and often as Orpik or Tinordi then there only a handful of players per era that reach that level and having one only occasionally is just the way it is.

Its like saying the Caps haven't had a defenseman as good in his own zone as Rod Langway since....Rod Langway.

 

[ChibiPooky]

That puck started on Hillen's side of the ice and as the strong side defenseman it's his to chase. Green's job was to protect center ice as the last man back.

 

[BobRouse]

That puck started on Hillen's side of the ice and as the strong side defenseman it's his to chase. Green's job was to protect center ice as the last man back.

When in doubt blame Green. In fact...ALWAYS blame Green.

I blame Green for Obama actually

 

[Stewie G]

When in doubt blame Green. In fact...ALWAYS blame Green.

I blame Green for Obama actually

When someone provides factual information, build a strawman. In fact...ALWAYS build a strawman.

 

[txpd]

When in doubt blame Green. In fact...ALWAYS blame Green.

I blame Green for Obama actually

was it Green that traded Forsberg? I bet it was.

and....Chibi makes a good point. That might be what happened. Might not, but its he makes a good point.

 

[HunterSThompson]

That puck started on Hillen's side of the ice and as the strong side defenseman it's his to chase. Green's job was to protect center ice as the last man back.

Direction there is most likely hazy which is what led to the miscue. Whose puck is it? The guy whose side of the ice the puck originated or the guy whose side of the ice the puck is travelling toward. I know if it was me, I'd want Hillen to defer to Green in that situation 10 times out of ten. Green has the better angle and play on the puck; considering the position of the Caps and the Panthers he should be playing the middle (where the puck is); lastly, Hillen started much further from the puck. Not to mention, of the two guys, I'd rather have the puck on Green's stick in the offensive zone.

Can't it just be a 50/50 puck that both guys went for and because of the confusion communication broke down.

 

[Ajax1995]

That puck started on Hillen's side of the ice and as the strong side defenseman it's his to chase. Green's job was to protect center ice as the last man back.

I'm sorry but what? There is no absolute for how to play this. A lot more comes into the decision than what side of the ice the puck came from.

The issue was communication or more likely the lack of it. Unless one of them was calling the other off and he was ignored they are both at fault for not communicating with their partner.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I'm sorry but what? There is no absolute for how to play this. A lot more comes into the decision than what side of the ice the puck came from.

The issue was communication or more likely the lack of it. Unless one of them was calling the other off and he was ignored they are both at fault for not communicating with their partner.

There is absolutely an absolute for how to play this. As soon as the weak side defenseman sees his partner move to contest the puck (normally, this would be down the wall but it still applies), his job is to retreat to center to cover him as the contingency. Every time.

The lack of communication is a separate (and still important) issue that only had the opportunity to occur because of the first mistake.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Direction there is most likely hazy which is what led to the miscue. Whose puck is it? The guy whose side of the ice the puck originated or the guy whose side of the ice the puck is travelling toward. I know if it was me, I'd want Hillen to defer to Green in that situation 10 times out of ten. Green has the better angle and play on the puck; considering the position of the Caps and the Panthers he should be playing the middle (where the puck is); lastly, Hillen started much further from the puck. Not to mention, of the two guys, I'd rather have the puck on Green's stick in the offensive zone.

Can't it just be a 50/50 puck that both guys went for and because of the confusion communication broke down.

Both guys shouldn't have gone for it in the first place.

 

[txpd]

@chibi, I think your book describe is correct on the basics. We don't know what Trotz directions on this are, however, I can make a case that Trotz wants Hillen to give up the line and Green to chase the puck because Green is faster or because Green is the offensive lead of the two.

consider that and it muddies the basics that the weak side d backs off and covers.

 

[Ajax1995]

There is absolutely an absolute for how to play this. As soon as the weak side defenseman sees his partner move to contest the puck (normally, this would be down the wall but it still applies), his job is to retreat to center to cover him as the contingency. Every time.

The lack of communication is a separate (and still important) issue that only had the opportunity to occur because of the first mistake.

You are extending a true scenario, the puck traveling up the wall as you pointed out, all over the ice, which is simply not true.

Again so much goes into this play. Just because the puck started on one side of the ice does not mean the guy on that side is entitled to chase it and the other guy needs to get out of the way. The pace of the puck, the direction the puck is moving at, each player's proximity to the puck when it starts, the direction and pace each player is traveling when the play starts, each players likely proximity to the puck in a split second later everything else remaining the same, as well as a number of other factors all go into the decisions on this play.

If you see it as one thing and one thing only I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Blades of Steel]

look at brouwer and luongo behind the play look at each other like "wtf"?

 

[ChibiPooky]

@chibi, I think your book describe is correct on the basics. We don't know what Trotz directions on this are, however, I can make a case that Trotz wants Hillen to give up the line and Green to chase the puck because Green is faster or because Green is the offensive lead of the two.

consider that and it muddies the basics that the weak side d backs off and covers.

Maybe. This is a pretty basic hockey concept, so I could see NHL coaches doing something different. That said, it's a basic hockey concept for a reason and I'd tend to defer to common knowledge rather than speculate on coaching contradicting it.

Either way, it's a clown shoes play when three guys end up at the same puck and they're all over the age of 8.

 

[Mothra]

Brendan Witt

he is a better player than Witt ever was and brings a presence to the team (locker room) than IMO Witt never did.

And yes...ive always held Witt sitting out a year against him....he was in it for the $$ as much as anything else. Who knows how missing a year of hockey at such a young age hurt his development

 

[g00n]

look at brouwer and luongo behind the play look at each other like "wtf"?

Watching at that angle instead of the center ice cam I'm inclined to change my opinion and fault Green for the blunder. He was weakside AND the puck was more to Hillen's side. He should've dropped back.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I am not sure how you know which player among hillen and green was responsible for running into each other.

I don't, which is why I said "I understand accidents happen."

However, some guys are the common denominators for these types of things.

 

[ChibiPooky]

You are extending a true scenario, the puck traveling up the wall as you pointed out, all over the ice, which is simply not true.

Again so much goes into this play. Just because the puck started on one side of the ice does not mean the guy on that side is entitled to chase it and the other guy needs to get out of the way. The pace of the puck, the direction the puck is moving at, each player's proximity to the puck when it starts, the direction and pace each player is traveling when the play starts, each players likely proximity to the puck in a split second later everything else remaining the same, as well as a number of other factors all go into the decisions on this play.

If you see it as one thing and one thing only I don't know what to tell you.

That's a forward's mentality if I've ever seen one (and for forwards, it's correct). Defensemen in those types of situations should read their partner more than the puck.

That read was bad even if they don't collide and knock down half the team. Both defensemen are holding the blue line with no forward back.

 

[foundhockey]

No me gusta Hillen/Green. It seems like Green's philosophy on making mistakes is 'go big or go home' cause when he screws up he really screws up. The thing about him bumping into Hillen, I understand accidents happen. But when he got back up he didn't seem like he was in any urgent hurry to get back. That really pissed me off. I also noticed him at a time in the game where the score was 4-2 jumping into the offensive zone and going deep even behind the net. Seems like kind of an odd decision for a defenseman at that point in the game.

Anyone else think Schmidt > Hillen and Carlson > Green on the PP?

I'm probably the odd man out but I like Green on PP 1 better than Carlson. Green's got literally years of experience playing with Ovie and Backstrom over Carlson. And when those 3 click it's great.

 

[tycoonheart]

look at brouwer and luongo behind the play look at each other like "wtf"?

Best hit Green's put on this year