Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Pens - Game 6. Win and come home (or, just come home)(pt2)Mod warning in OP

[Alexander the Gr8]

C'mon. He failed to come near the net on a couple.

A champion assesses his failures and features them by overcoming them. I hate the guy... but the dents on Crosby's Mom's dryer demonstrate this.

He doesn't allow snapshots of himself on a beach.

I don't understand what you're trying to say there. What does Crosby's dryer have to do with Ovechkin not having Jedi powers to control the trajectory of a flubbed saucer pass?

Guess what, he did connect on one of those bouncers. It went straight into Murray's chest, and Bonino took a delay of game penalty trying to clear the puck out. A few seconds later, Ovechkin was setting up Carlson for the game tying goal.

You think Ovechkin's one timer is not good enough? He and Backstrom spend 15 minutes per day together practicing that shot. I went to a Caps game in Montreal in December, and I watched the pre game practice with a friend. Well, Backstrom was firing 60 mph snap shots at Ovechkin along the ice and he was connecting on every puck, sending each shot at the same location.

 

[mrwarden]

Warden: try inserting zero into your equation and see what happens.

The most fun part about this is that you're not even logically consistent. You post that the Red Wings had multiple "champions" who elevated their game to win the Cup, and, presumably, they were ALL necessary, but Ovechkin should not need anyone else to play well?

 

[g00n]

Remember those wiffs of one-timers in the last game? Those were situations that could have changed the outcome of the game.

If I'm AO, I'm gonna practice that shot all summer, rather than spending time on the beach.

Is that it? Anything else? Missing a few shots he's fired off thousands of times, and have resulted in hundreds of goals? Everyone else was perfect, and this was the major letdown that caused the team to fail? If Ovechkin connects on a few of those one-time passes (how many are we talking about) then that's "leadership" and it rallies the entire team?

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm trying to piece this together into some theory about "willing" the team to victory in key moments.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm going to preface this with. I'm in no way BLAMING Ovy for a team's failures, I simply love the debate on his performance.


People throw out Toews and Kane smaller point totals in one series (the 2015 Finals) and I'd like to add some context to that point about depth.

Those two's ELITE performances the CARRIED their teams to the Finals where others were in a position to step in up in the home stretch and bring home the Cup.

Kane 1st in points, 2nd in goals, 1st in goals created for his team. Toews 4th in goals created, 2nd in PP goals, 5th in points.

How about the 2014 Kings?

Kopitar, Carter, Doughty were thrown out...

Kopitar 1st in scoring, 1st in assists, 4th in goals created for team.

Carter 2nd in points, 3rd in assists, 2nd in goals created, 1st in PP goals

Doughty 6th in points, 4th in assists

AGAIN, guys who CARRIED their teams TO the Finals.


The Caps problems are twofold.

1)Only one postseason has Ovy performed at a clear Conn Smythe trophy winning pace and performance. He was as dominanty as ever that year. IMO the only time where he matched his mantle of best player in the world in the postseason. 21 pts in 14 games in 08-09. TO WIN A CUP today, the Caps need him to be a great deal better than a PPG player. That's to give them a fighting chance to get to the Finals. That's what guys like Kane, Toews, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter all did on their Championship runs (elite performances, not necessarily PPG+ I just happen to believe that's what the CAPS would need today).

2)They also need their secondary stars to play like secondary stars. That's why Backstrom and his sweetheart contract need to be closely scrutinized. Why the hairy eyeball will now be on Kuzy to show he's not a guy who's going to disappear for near half a season's worth of games ever again.

Look...Ovy produced points in the Pens series, but he wasn't our best player. We need him to be our ABSOLUTE BEST player at least SOME series for this team to win a Cup right now BECAUSE guys like Backstrom and Kuzy haven't put up near the same level of performance required by a team's secondary stars over multiple series in a deep run. We haven't had a Justin Williams and Gaborik secondary burst to pick up the slack.

Bad luck, or Management choices, that's where the Caps are. I've LONG thought we'll never win a Cup until another elite talent emerges on this team to offload some pressure from Ovy and I still believe that. We all thought Kuzy was that guy and he flamed out. Backstrom hasn't been able to be that guy to help carry them deep yet either. Dave was mentioned two constants, well maybe Backstrom should start shouldering a lot more blame? Do you move him? Like I said, for me it would be a for a not long list of players, but it's not unthinkable.

 

[BTCG]

Sorry,

Too many to answer. If President's Trophies and 2nd round exits are fine with you guys, more power to you.

But pretending that this is success is what I consider illogical.

 

[BTCG]

I'm going to preface this with. I'm in no way BLAMING Ovy for a team's failures, I simply love the debate on his performance.


People throw out Toews and Kane smaller point totals in one series (the 2015 Finals) and I'd like to add some context to that point about depth.

Those two's ELITE performances the CARRIED their teams to the Finals where others were in a position to step in up in the home stretch and bring home the Cup.

Kane 1st in points, 2nd in goals, 1st in goals created for his team. Toews 4th in goals created, 2nd in PP goals, 5th in points.

How about the 2014 Kings?

Kopitar, Carter, Doughty were thrown out...

Kopitar 1st in scoring, 1st in assists, 4th in goals created for team.

Carter 2nd in points, 3rd in assists, 2nd in goals created, 1st in PP goals

Doughty 6th in points, 4th in assists

AGAIN, guys who CARRIED their teams TO the Finals.


The Caps problems are twofold.

1)Only one postseason has Ovy performed at a clear Conn Smythe trophy winning pace and performance. He was as dominanty as ever that year. IMO the only time where he matched his mantle of best player in the world in the postseason. 21 pts in 14 games in 08-09. TO WIN A CUP today, the Caps need him to be better than a PPG player. That's to give them a fighting chance to get to the Finals. That's what guys like Kane, Toews, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter all did on their Championship runs (elite performances, not necessarily PPG+ I just happen to believe that's what the CAPS would need today).

2)They also need their secondary stars to play like secondary stars. That's why Backstrom and his sweetheart contract need to be closely scrutinized. Why the hairy eyeball will now be on Kuzy to show he's not a guy who's going to disappear for near half a season's worth of games ever again.

Look...Ovy produced points in the Pens series, but he wasn't our best player. We need him to be our ABSOLUTE BEST player at least SOME series for this team to win a Cup right now BECAUSE guys like Backstrom and Kuzy haven't put up near the same level of performance required by a team's secondary stars over multiple series in a deep run. We haven't had a Justin Williams and Gaborik secondary burst to pick up the slack.

Bad luck, or Management choices, that's where the Caps are. I've LONG thought we'll never win a Cup until another elite talent emerges on this team to offload some pressure from Ovy and I still believe that. We all thought Kuzy was that guy and he flamed out. Backstrom hasn't been able to be that guy to help carry them deep yet either. Dave was mentioned two constants, well maybe Backstrom should start shouldering a lot more blame? Do you move him? Like I said, for me it would be a for a not long list of players, but it's not unthinkable.

Unreasonable expectation... haven't you read? It's the rest of em.

 

[BTCG]

Sorry, that's enough for me. We will NEVER learn!

 

[g00n]

Sorry,

Too many to answer. If President's Trophies and 2nd round exits are fine with you guys, more power to you.

But pretending that this is success is what I consider illogical.

Wait, so when you're asked to explain exactly what you mean in reference to this grand, fatal flaw you give one small example of a few missed slappers and then run off. At the same time you take exception to people misinterpreting you, but it's OK to categorize everyone else as being happy with failure.



See you next year, too, I guess.

 

[artilector]

What I found amusing was your ability to filter out words that pour oil into the water of your argument; you caught elevate his game... but you felt the need to ignore in key situations.

But... in all fairness, you're not alone.

There's no hidden meaning in my definition of a champion. Frankly, and no disrespect, but I believe these type of claims serve only to weaken your argument.

It's not hard to understand: AO was the subject KSD and CCF brought up. And... it's fair to question the performance of a guy who makes as much as AO does.

I really do not get this type of argument. Because others have failed to elevate their game in key situations... we shouldn't question AO's performances? Really?

So, you're saying that should MJ have failed in every situation in the playoffs, we should still considered him the greatest player of all-time? Again... really?

If you think President's Trophies and 2nd round exits are accomplishments, more power to you. But don't chastise those of us who want more.

Again, not the point. What KSD (who seems to have been chased off) and CCF (and me) are saying is that at some point in this near-decade of AO's career... it's not out of line to suggest that he should have taken a key situation into his hands and inserted his will upon the situation. He's certainly not underpaid, eh? That's all.

Come on, and you complain about me misrepresenting your arguments.

Look, I can accept that one can make the argument that Ovechkin has not performed at superhero level in playoffs. I suspect statistically he's fine, subjectively... ok, let's grant that assumption.

I just think Ovi's issues are a very secondary problem at this point, because the rest of the team collectively performed much worse. I don't think there's any player that could've carried the Caps to SC win in Ovechkin's place. And plenty of teams have won without ideal performances from their superstars -- like others have pointed out, depth is king more than ever.

Again, the focus on Ovi is like complaining that your Ferrari engine is a V-10 and not a V-12, while the overwhelming problem is the 5,000lbs worth of anchors that you are towing behind. I would also like a V-12, I just think the Caps have much bigger problems than this -- and that a team can certainly win with this level of performance from a superstar.

 

[RandyHolt]

Have the more recent Conn winning forwards been on teams that have hunkered turtled and dump and chased their way to glorious victory?

It sure seems like Ovi has been a part of teams taking a very defensive approach... but I don't watch the rest of the league to know. I do know LA played it tight defensively, but they also played more physically and took away time and space that we can only dream of here on the east coast.

And had a much more polished breakout / passing attack.

 

[g00n]

Well I know we don't want to let this season go but it's probably time to lock this final gdt/pg thread and move on. All the Ovie talk can move to a player thread or the roster thread if anyone wants to keep beating that dead horse.

2015-2016=Closed.