Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[Alexander the Gr8]

There are soft and gritty players in every country obviously. I wouldn't get hung up on a player's nationality in 2018.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Wasn't the Kadri hit a low thigh contusion and not actually related to the knee? Didn't wife Ovechkin tweet out a picture post playoffs?

Correct. It was ugly

 

[g00n]

There are soft and gritty players in every country obviously. I wouldn't get hung up on a player's nationality in 2018.

At the highest level?


I was asking if these types were common and people have a very hard time coming up with examples. So what is the actual statistical probability likely to show for each case if we're strictly going by numbers and not anything else? If there really isn't a trend then we should be able to construct fairly equal lists for all types. If we can't do that then we can't say such players are common. That would then make the opposite uncommon.

 

[442]

Someone spare me the research .... What say the fancy stats about Jerabek and Kempny?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

At the highest level?


I was asking if these types were common and people have a very hard time coming up with examples. So what is the actual statistical probability likely to show for each case if we're strictly going by numbers and not anything else? If there really isn't a trend then we should be able to construct fairly equal lists for all types. If we can't do that then we can't say such players are common. That would then make the opposite uncommon.

Why would we want to compile data about that?

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

So literally having to spin our wheels to brainstorm non-Euro players who are labeled as soft while there is a laundry list of guys in the NHL from Europe who have the label.


Someone explain to me how there isn't a bias or stereotype again?

 

[txpd]

So literally having to spin our wheels to brainstorm non-Euro players who are labeled as soft while there is a laundry list of guys in the NHL from Europe who have the label.


Someone explain to me how there isn't a bias or stereotype again?

There is also a shortage of highly skilled Canadians. Its style of play. Not biased. Ovechkin being a boomer is an oddity. There has been a lot of talk lately that NCAA players are the trend because of the style of play. Gershich is far from a typical Canadian player. College hockey is much more a speed game than Canadian junior hockey.

 

[txpd]

There are soft and gritty players in every country obviously. I wouldn't get hung up on a player's nationality in 2018.

It's fair to say that the type of game played in Sweden than that played in the OHL. Which is completely different from the NCAA game. As a result certain skill sets that fit those leagues are more common. That's pretty logical.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It's fair to say that the type of game played in Sweden than that played in the OHL. Which is completely different from the NCAA game. As a result certain skill sets that fit those leagues are more common. That's pretty logical.

True but players have to fit the NHL mold now. Doesn't matter where they come from, they are taught at development and training camp to play the "right way" for the NHL by coaches.

 

[Sam Spade]

I just want Ovie news please, anyone, Ovie news!!???!?!?!?!?

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

It's not Euro bias. Its rookie bias. Big difference.
Euro grinder. Sobotka?
Soft Canadian. Johnny Hockey.
Soft NA. Phil Kessel.

Despite being a tremendous counter-checker if you were to survey the main board on their opinion of the physicality of Backstrom he absolutely would have the moniker of a soft playmaking Swede.

The fact of the matter is unless you're an absolute brick house like Ovechkin, the default assumption for most Euros is a net negative in physicality whereas North American's are given the benefit of the doubt that they're at least competent physically until proven otherwise.

I don't even think this is debatable, just spend some time on the main board or better yet wait for the draft and peep the reaction of fans when guys from different areas are drafted.

 

[txpd]

True but players have to fit the NHL mold now. Doesn't matter where they come from, they are taught at development and training camp to play the "right way" for the NHL by coaches.

You can play a hands game and play the right way. You can play a body game and play the right way Tom Wilson and Nick Backstrom play the right way but don't play the same game

 

[txpd]

Despite being a tremendous counter-checker if you were to survey the main board on their opinion of the physicality of Backstrom he absolutely would have the moniker of a soft playmaking Swede.

Backstrom is not generally well described by league fans on many levels

 

[twabby]

I just want Ovie news please, anyone, Ovie news!!???!?!?!?!?

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

There is also a shortage of highly skilled Canadians. Its style of play. Not biased. Ovechkin being a boomer is an oddity. There has been a lot of talk lately that NCAA players are the trend because of the style of play. Gershich is far from a typical Canadian player. College hockey is much more a speed game than Canadian junior hockey.

I disagree. The NHL media is consistently over pumping the tires on NA talent. I mean Crosby has only led the league in points twice, assists once, and goals twice; you would get the impression he posts Gretzky level numbers from the way he is spoken about. You honestly don't even need to look further than this year for NA bias, the media has essentially decided that the 2018 Hart is between MacKinnon and McDavid despite Kucherov, Malkin, and Ovechkin all having amazing years, none of them are receiving legitimate consideration. Look at the way Patrik Laine has been represented in comparison to Matthews and McDavid. There are countless examples of NA bias, it's expected because this is an NA league and I imagine the inverse is present in the KHL, but let's not pretend it's not real.


The top Euro players are considered to be one trick ponies, they're considered to have one skill they do well at the expense of all the others, they gain the perception of being "highly skilled, but...". Meanwhile the top NA players are largely perceived skilled without exception. Look at Marchand, he is constantly being called in front of DoPS but that's largely presented as an intentional aspect of his game as if he's playing on the edge and playing 3D chess with his opponents. Take a Euro like Ovechkin and that guy is "reckless" and out of control.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

You can play a hands game and play the right way. You can play a body game and play the right way Tom Wilson and Nick Backstrom play the right way but don't play the same game

They don't play the same game but they have common attributes.

 

[txpd]

Nhl media over pumps Canadian players because of it's Canadian fan base. Its widely considered US hockey is the best development program in the sport. I doubt you will see nhl media talking up the idea that Americans are overtaking Canadians in the sport.

 

[twabby]

I give up.

 

[g00n]

Why would we want to compile data about that?

So we don't make things up based on confirmation bias or other errors of perception?

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Nhl media over pumps Canadian players because of it's Canadian fan base. Its widely considered US hockey is the best development program in the sport. I doubt you will see nhl media talking up the idea that Americans are overtaking Canadians in the sport.

I understand this, but it's important to then be conscientious that these stereotypes and perceptions are largely ingrained in the North American media we consume and that this media influences the general perception around hockey. If a person is not actively aware of the bias or refuses to acknowledge it they find themselves likely to be more susceptible to influence whether it's conscious or not.

The original topic at hand was a poster taking issue with the my assertion that the general perception of Euro players was part of the reasoning why, despite statistical evidence suggesting the opposite, Vrana was considered a weak defensive player. That poster chose to take my comments and present them as unfair, out of bounds, and divisive for no reason. He deemed them as words that essentially disqualified any further debate. Regardless of the conclusion you or others take from this I think this conversation proves there is merit to at least the conversation that the reason why some posters arrive at their perception of players is based on stereotypes.

 

[Langway]

What are those lines? I don't even. Trotz engineering an L for Grubauer to pave the way for Holtby in G1.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Isabelle posted earlier today musing the possibility of the team rolling with a rotating G in the playoffs. I don't know if she gleaned the possibility from the team or she was just personally considering it, honestly though that would be be the last straw. Grubauer has taken the #1 spot, their refusal to outright hand it to him so aggravating. If Holtby is a pending UFA is this even a discussion? They're so concerned about the mental fragility of this guy...

 

[hockeykicker]

What are those lines? I don't even. Trotz engineering an L for Grubauer to pave the way for Holtby in G1.

Didn't we pave the way for gruabuer to play game 1 with holtby and the lineup vs the blues?

 

[hockeykicker]

I give up.

Apparently those are wrong per new info

 

[um]

I give up.

I hope it's Jerabek over Djoos, and I don't mind Vrana sitting for Game 1, he has been awful as of late.