Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Off-Season Pt. 1

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Empty Goal Net

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The issue was not the number of games. It was the number of games in a compressed number of days. This season there was almost no recovery time built into the schedule and no practice time. They were averaging more then 5 games every 10 days in those 56 games. In a normal 82 game schedule they player fewer than 1 games every other day. You can make a good case that this past 56 games schedule was far harder on players than the 82 games schedules of years past.

imo it's a bit of both (compressed schedule as well as # of games). Granted the 56 games were often every other day, with very few 2- or 3-day gaps and no bye weeks. Limited recovery time meant more nagging/unhealed injuries. But we also hear and most of us subscribe to the idea that the team was somewhat burned out after the SC win, and that was because they played >100 games in a roughly 8-month period - a "normal" season for an SC finalist. We also hear that euros and kids from juniors aren't used to the length of the RS in the NHL. Travel in 20-21 was significantly constrained compared to a "normal" season - zero cross-country flights and a bunch of btbs in the same away city, therefore somewhat less wearing on a player. Also, the last 2 seasons have been shortened, so none of the current Caps are used to a long season. Not sure what the impact will be of a return to "normal," it will definitely be different from 20-21 and a change that will likely affect older bodies more than younger ones, even with more time to recover betw games.
 

Empty Goal Net

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Next season isn't going to be a cakewalk in terms of the schedule. It will likely be another compressed schedule due to the Olympic break and maybe because of the lingering effects of COVID pushing the season back a few weeks. But this time with more travelling and the 82 full games. Not only that, but it's reasonable to expect the following players to play in the Olympics:

Ovechkin
Backstrom
Oshie
Carlson
Orlov

That's a lot of older players potentially playing 90+ competitive games next year in another compressed schedule before the Stanley Cup Playoffs even come around. Whatever excuses given for the schedule this year are going to apply again next year, and perhaps be even worse.

Did not see this before my post above!
 

Hivemind

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Picking up on some of the coaching discussion from the previous version of this thread (and some other threads).


The concern with Laviolette is that he's a coach known for producing immediate results before fizzling out in the middle-to-long term. Historically, his best years with a team have been early on in his tenure (particularly years 1-2). He did have a secondary spike in years 3/4 in Nashville (when he got a long playoff run from a middle-of-the-pack RS performance that led to a 117 point RS the following year), but that's atypical compared to his time in New York, Carolina, and Philadelphia. Plus his Nashville resurgence corresponds with getting a wave of young talent in the likes of Filip Forsberg and Viktor Arvidsson, adding in a prime PK Subban, and the maturation of Roman Josi and Ryan Ellis (the Predators were primed for better outcomes regardless of who was at the helm).

For year one in Washington, Lavi made the team look better to an extent but still produces more-or-less the same on-paper outcomes. If this is the team's Laviolette-bump, there could still be significant trouble ahead. There hasn't been that same immediate improvement that Lavi is known for. And if the Capitals hope for a secondary bump later in Lavi's tenure, they will likely have to provide a similar talent/speed injection that Nashville did during their finals run and subsequent season. And hopefully Lavi will actually use that speed and talent as he did with the Predators, rather than banishing them to the moon.

When several key players on the team fare worse than they did under previous coaching regimes, it does beg some questions regarding the coaching. A lot of it, and I mean a lot of it, may be due to age. But its some of the players in their theoretical primes that trended the wrong direction (leading one to getting traded and another to be on the fans' chopping block). There's still a lot we don't know about what happened in the room this year, so I don't want to wander too far into the realm of speculation. But there was a time in Lavi's coaching history previously that he drove a rift between an organization and players based on off-ice conduct, and those players went on to win multiple Cups with another franchise.

I'm still hoping that year 2 of Laviolette can ride off his initial surges in play, perhaps with more favorable luck aiding as well. But with an aging roster that's only going to become more injury-prone as they get older, I have my doubts.


As for the assistant coaches, there's one I want gone far more than the rest. And it's not Blaine Forsythe. It's Scott Murray.

For the past 15 or so years, the Capitals have been THE premiere franchise in the NHL for developing goaltenders. Dave Prior and Mitch Korn were both excellent at it, with a brief hiatus for an Oates-sabotaged Kolzig tenure in between. The Capitals have churned out more starting caliber-or-above goalies than any other team since the 2004 lockout. Braden Holtby won a Vezina. Philipp Grubauer is currently a Vezina finalist (and I think he has good odds of winning it). Semyon Varlamov finished 2nd in Vezina and 4th in Hart voting in 2014, and is still a starting grade goaltender. Michal Neuvirth had a solid, if injury-plagued, career. Yet, we haven't seen the continuation of that trend under Scott Murray.

Expecting greatness out of every goaltending regime isn't a particularly reasonable expectation. But when both goalies under Murray's guidance have some of the same significant flaws in their gameplay, it raises some pretty big red flags. Even more so when you consider that Ilya Samsonov has a better draft pedigree than any Caps goaltender since Varlamov, and the most pre-NHL prospect hype of any Caps goalie prospect ever. Both goalies struggle with tracking the puck beneath the goal line. Both are often late to move off their posts as it enters the trapezoid behind them, and struggle to know when to adopt the VH/RVH and when not to (albeit, the overuse/misuse of the RVH is a pretty widespread problem in the NHL). Both goalies have struggled with communication and puck movement at various points in the year. And both goalies have struggled with rebound control and avoiding kicking the puck out to juicy portions of the ice. When there's so much overlap in the issues that are stopping these goalies from reaching the next level (although it remains to be seen how much of a "next level" exists for VV) and so little improvement in those areas over the course of the season, it doesn't paint the goalie coach in a favorable light.
 

twabby

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@twabby from the prev thread:



Ok so you don't want to call it "blame" and this is all about thought experiments that just happen to involve performance analysis, and we're just moving things forward. Fine.

It makes no difference how you reframe it. The net effect is the same. There's no real reason to believe the superstars are suddenly over the hill and that's the reason we lost the series, especially when the bullshit from Kuz and Sammy (along with injuries to top stars) are all front and center. While most of us were focusing on those obvious issues you got this "trade Wilson while his value is high" narrative and now he's thrown into the "old and slow" complaint despite being young and fast.

Let's just cut to the chase. There are people on this site who want a purely finesse team that's young, fast, and soft because of what they believe is quantifiable data showing the team is falling behind other squads. But I still haven't gotten an answer regarding how you quantify team speed, or individual speed during game situations...especially when you spend all season playing the same handful of teams.

The stars aren't necessarily over the hill. They're still quality NHLers and a few are even very good NHLers. But they aren't good enough to carry a team to a championship.

I'm not even really bringing up speed as a primary component of their decline. I'm just saying older players are in general worse and typically keep getting worse. Declining skating speed is one factor, yes. But it's also likely due to declining motor cognitive abilities such as hand-eye coordination, and also slower decision-making.

I just think focusing on Kuznetsov and Samsonov and pinning the majority of the blame for the Bruins series on them is highly misguided. They are convenient scapegoats, and indeed it's probably time to move on from Kuznetsov, but that's not why they lost to Boston. They lost because Boston was a superior team and their superstars vastly outplayed the Capitals' superstars. Even if healthy, I think the Capitals star players would have been outplayed by the Bruins superstars.
 

Hivemind

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The issue was not the number of games. It was the number of games in a compressed number of days. This season there was almost no recovery time built into the schedule and no practice time. They were averaging more then 5 games every 10 days in those 56 games. In a normal 82 game schedule they player fewer than 1 games every other day. You can make a good case that this past 56 games schedule was far harder on players than the 82 games schedules of years past.

You know what has almost no recovery time and no practice time build into the schedule each and every season? The playoffs.


(Also lol at your "5 games every 10" compared to "1 game every other day")
 

EroCaps

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The hot-take hyperbole machine is on overdrive.

Maybe all the Trotz coddlers should hang out on the Aisle's board for the remainder of the playoffs?

Trotz coddlers?

Humpty Dumpty is the best coach in Caps' history and management was utterly foolish to listen to guys like Carlson and Kuzy bitch about his system.
 
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Calicaps

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Quip post before I make a longer one about coaching - I think it's fairly obvious who only watches games that involve the Capitals and who watches other teams play as well. And there's a reasonably large overlap between those who watch other teams and those who think the Capitals need a more significant rework to remain competitive.
LOL!

The arrogance of this post cannot be overstated.
 
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tenken00

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As for the assistant coaches, there's one I want gone far more than the rest. And it's not Blaine Forsythe. It's Scott Murray.

For the past 15 or so years, the Capitals have been THE premiere franchise in the NHL for developing goaltenders. Dave Prior and Mitch Korn were both excellent at it, with a brief hiatus for an Oates-sabotaged Kolzig tenure in between. The Capitals have churned out more starting caliber-or-above goalies than any other team since the 2004 lockout. Braden Holtby won a Vezina. Philipp Grubauer is currently a Vezina finalist (and I think he has good odds of winning it). Semyon Varlamov finished 2nd in Vezina and 4th in Hart voting in 2014, and is still a starting grade goaltender. Michal Neuvirth had a solid, if injury-plagued, career. Yet, we haven't seen the continuation of that trend under Scott Murray.

Expecting greatness out of every goaltending regime isn't a particularly reasonable expectation. But when both goalies under Murray's guidance have some of the same significant flaws in their gameplay, it raises some pretty big red flags. Even more so when you consider that Ilya Samsonov has a better draft pedigree than any Caps goaltender since Varlamov, and the most pre-NHL prospect hype of any Caps goalie prospect ever. Both goalies struggle with tracking the puck beneath the goal line. Both are often late to move off their posts as it enters the trapezoid behind them, and struggle to know when to adopt the VH/RVH and when not to (albeit, the overuse/misuse of the RVH is a pretty widespread problem in the NHL). Both goalies have struggled with communication and puck movement at various points in the year. And both goalies have struggled with rebound control and avoiding kicking the puck out to juicy portions of the ice. When there's so much overlap in the issues that are stopping these goalies from reaching the next level (although it remains to be seen how much of a "next level" exists for VV) and so little improvement in those areas over the course of the season, it doesn't paint the goalie coach in a favorable light.

I haven't had the time to fully digest all of this yet, but I do want to highlight this part. And this is why I asked the question a week or so ago about whether we should keep Scott Murray or not.

I don't think Scott Murray is bad per se or that he can't get better. He's just right now inexperienced, and with the current questions at goalie right now that we have - namely young and inexperienced goaltenders, it's just not the right time or right fit.

I think the Lundqvist loss was probably more impactful in this regard (not that anyone was expecting Lundqvist to be spectacular in goal himself). But his loss at least took away the opportunity to be the mentor that a young goaltender probably needs, more so than any other position. Would Samsonov have gotten in so much trouble this year if he had "batya" Lundqvist looking over his shoulder constantly? Maybe, maybe not. But I do think Lundqvist would have had more of an impactful influence on Samsonov than another rookie in Vanecek or Craig Anderson. You can't teach athleticism but you can teach technique and professionalism.

Getting back to Scott Murray, depending on what our expectations for next year are, I do think we need a more veteran or experienced coach in that regard. More so than replacing Forsythe. It's tough to have a second/first year coach with a second/first year goalie and another rookie goalie and expect results. It's actually amazing that we didn't lose more games.
 
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Hivemind

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With regards to Forsythe, I have mixed feelings.

I share the frustration that many folks have about the slingshot and crappy zone entries (and doubly so when Kuzy is not on the first unit). I would like to see more adaptation and innovation on that front, and for it to happen about 3 years ago. It's crushing to watch their powerplay struggle to gain the zone time and time again.

On the other hand, what are they going to replace him with? The rest of the league has essentially copycatted the Oates/Forsythe 1-3-1 and zone entries. Blaine Forsythe is one of the men responsible for literally changing the NHL's "metagame" on the powerplay. The 1-3-1 existed before Oates and Forsythe, but it functioned differently (much more similar to the "umbrella" style powerplays of years past). Forsythe helped create the evolution where the half-wall is the QB rather than the point-man, in large part by co-opting the down low man to be a pass outlet and secondary QB off the rotation. They also created the version built around Washington's specific talent (namely that Ovechkin guy). The biggest differences between what the Caps and other teams run in the 1-3-1 in 2021 is that other teams lack the singular trigger man that is Ovechkin, and can thus be a little bit more dynamic in terms of reversing the play (both half wall players can QB or gun, allowing for more movement across the mid-line of the ice). But to implement that in Washington would lose the Ovechkin-turret element (and perhaps harm Ovie's quest for 895).
 

txpd

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With regards to Forsythe, I have mixed feelings.

I share the frustration that many folks have about the slingshot and crappy zone entries (and doubly so when Kuzy is not on the first unit). I would like to see more adaptation and innovation on that front, and for it to happen about 3 years ago. It's crushing to watch their powerplay struggle to gain the zone time and time again.

On the other hand, what are they going to replace him with? The rest of the league has essentially copycatted the Oates/Forsythe 1-3-1 and zone entries. Blaine Forsythe is one of the men responsible for literally changing the NHL's "metagame" on the powerplay. The 1-3-1 existed before Oates and Forsythe, but it functioned differently (much more similar to the "umbrella" style powerplays of years past). Forsythe helped create the evolution where the half-wall is the QB rather than the point-man, in large part by co-opting the down low man to be a pass outlet and secondary QB off the rotation. They also created the version built around Washington's specific talent (namely that Ovechkin guy). The biggest differences between what the Caps and other teams run in the 1-3-1 in 2021 is that other teams lack the singular trigger man that is Ovechkin, and can thus be a little bit more dynamic in terms of reversing the play (both half wall players can QB or gun, allowing for more movement across the mid-line of the ice). But to implement that in Washington would lose the Ovechkin-turret element (and perhaps harm Ovie's quest for 895).

The Caps pp went thru an evolution as the league changed tactics against their power play. In Reirden's last season the league adopted some form of shadowing Ovechkin with a player on one side and packing back into Oshie on the other side. That served to take Carlson's shooting lane and Oshie's space to work away and left Backstrom with space and a challenge to shoot the puck. This past season the Caps moved Oshie away from the net for more high deflections and gimmicks to open up his bumper shot. That worked and forced teams to pressure Backstrom and or come off of Ovechkin to pressure Oshie. The result had them back in the top 5 on the pp and had Ov resurgent with a rush of power play goals.

It might have been that they were slow to recognize the trend in pk against them, but I think it took them a while to find the right vehicle to make Oshie the primary scorer and force changes in the pk trend against them.

By the playoffs the injury to Carlson clearly was messing with his ability to pass the puck. He put Ov's wheelhouse pass into Ov's skates more in one game than in full seasons in the past and the consistency with which that happened game after game suggested something was killing his mechanics.
 

Calicaps

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That was sarcasm. Some people over here like first round exits with constant injuries, no goaltending or potent offense/defense way more than Trotz.
nobody likes first round exits. but nobody liked second-round exits either. 95ish% of Trotz's career has been second-round exits. Just for comparison sake, Lavi has a been beyond the second round more than Trotz in fewer playoff runs.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Umm...how does all that change the fact that they'd exited the playoffs for 3 straight years? They looked bad all 3 series aside from a couple of games against Carolina. Their goaltending, centermen and #1D had all been deplorable. It's like when people talking about Letang they're always having this injury excuse for his poor showings in the playoffs. I'm sorry, not a single opponent cares if he's injured. He looks bad when he's injured and lost some games for his team. Same with Carlson. Same with Oshie. Same with Backstrom. Your tendency to get injured or get destroyed by a hit is only yours and your team's problem. It means you're unreliable in that regard and easy to be taken out of the equation.
If you don’t think being healthy going into the playoffs or during the playoffs makes a big difference then I’m not sure what to tell you. Ovechkin is a tank — you think it’s his fault he got injured? And yeah, a team looks bad when it is missing it’s best players or when it’s best players are hurt... didn’t think that had to be explained? Seems pretty self evident.

I’m not saying they would have won the Cup all three years if they were healthy but discounting what injuries mean in terms of how they play or how they may have and probably did affect the outcome is odd.
 
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Hivemind

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Once again, if your entire team is getting injured simultaneously and their on-ice performance is being crippled by their nagging injures.... it's a sign that the team is too old.
 

txpd

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Once again, if your entire team is getting injured simultaneously and their on-ice performance is being crippled by their nagging injures.... it's a sign that the team is too old.

What evidence do we have that the injuries involved were either nagging or chronic? You seem to jump to that conclusion here
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Umm...how does all that change the fact that they'd exited the playoffs for 3 straight years? They looked bad all 3 series aside from a couple of games against Carolina. Their goaltending, centermen and #1D had all been deplorable. It's like when people talking about Letang they're always having this injury excuse for his poor showings in the playoffs. I'm sorry, not a single opponent cares if he's injured. He looks bad when he's injured and lost some games for his team. Same with Carlson. Same with Oshie. Same with Backstrom. Your tendency to get injured or get destroyed by a hit is only yours and your team's problem. It means you're unreliable in that regard and easy to be taken out of the equation.

Sounds like you're one of those "there are no reasons, only excuses" types.....
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Hot take: Trotz's second round exits with a Cup on top of them were much more bearable than first round exits.

Nope....sorry not winning a championship is not winning a championship.

I feel zero extra fulfillment from a 2nd round appearance vs a 1st round loss.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Once again, if your entire team is getting injured simultaneously and their on-ice performance is being crippled by their nagging injures.... it's a sign that the team is too old.
Or, injuries are random and shit happens. Was Kempny too old? He was 27, 28 when he tore his hamstring. Carlson? Do you think a younger player than Oshie survives getting checked from behind and doesn’t break his collarbone? Was Backstrom too old when he took an elbow to the face by Rene Bourque and got the worst concussion of his career? It’s just lazy to say, “they’re an older team and some players got hurt, therefore they got hurt because they’re an older team.”

I might be inclined to buy more of your argument if these were nagging injuries or if they were clearly breaking down and their performance was steadily decreasing but that wasn’t the case in most if not all of those injuries, except Osh who feels like he’s been kept together with spit and duct tape right now. They were more or less healthy those entire seasons and then had some bad injuries at unfortunate times, some of which were the result of dirty plays.
 

Melkor

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If you don’t think being healthy going into the playoffs or during the playoffs makes a big difference then I’m not sure what to tell you. Ovechkin is a tank — you think it’s his fault he got injured? And yeah, a team looks bad when it is missing it’s best players or when it’s best players are hurt... didn’t think that had to be explained? Seems pretty self evident.

I’m not saying they would have won the Cup all three years if they were healthy but discounting what injuries mean in terms of how they play or how they may have and probably did affect the outcome is odd.
I don't think you get my point correctly. Injuries obviously affect the game they just can't be used as an excuse when it becomes a constant. Change the players, change the medical team, change your training. Change something. It's like I'm calling in sick in the most challenging periods of the year and always get away with that. Nah at some point I'm getting replaced and rightfully so.
And bringing up Ovechkin as an example..I don't get it. If you noticed I mentioned goaltending, centermen and number one defenseman as reasons for their failures, not a single wing. Because the game depends on them, not on Ovechkin. Ovechkin is a trigger man, he doesn't do much these days when he doesn't score. The aforementioned positions are what paints the picture of this teams' game. And the picture has been ugly post Cup. Calling them a wagon or something...please. If anything they probably were closer to that title in the first Reirden year but definitely not this one.
 

Melkor

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Nope....sorry not winning a championship is not winning a championship.

I feel zero extra fulfillment from a 2nd round appearance vs a 1st round loss.
We can agree to disagree. I respect the team more for at least putting in a respectable effort albeit with a disappointing result than having a record 2-9 or something in their last 11 playoff games.
 
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Hivemind

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What evidence do we have that the injuries involved were either nagging or chronic? You seem to jump to that conclusion here
If a player is in a game playing with an injury that isn't fully healed, that's the definition of a nagging injury. That's also exactly the rationale you're using to defend the play of the team, that they were dealing with nagging injuries.

I never said chronic.
 
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