Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021-22 Regular Season Part 6
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JayBeagleFanAccount
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yeah I agree. I do think Hagelin's offense is overrated due to him being a purely up and down winger, he is our least offensively gifted forward. I still believe that wilson is most effective when used a complimentary middle 6 winger and not a top line guy. However, wilson is far from what is wrong with this team and I do like him as a player
That seemed to be the theme from 2010 to 2018. The players loved that quote.
HTFN
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- Feb 8, 2009
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“whole team”
We can’t help that certain dipknobs want to trade the players they should be trying to win with. I’ve been very vocal about how batshit crazy those moves are but you don’t see me calling it pure lunacy to move on from Schultz, Eller, etc. if necessary.
Maybe, again, you’d like to outline what the next three years look like and who is playing for the team and follow some of what you’re saying through to its conclusion
RedRocking
Registered User
To just entertain the idea of trading Wilson doesn’t mean that (at least I) think he’s the problem with the team. It’s just more about assessing value and who would net us the most in a trade. So it’s in no way insulting to Willy, it’s quite the opposite. And no, this isn’t baseball, but players are still assessed commodities.
Some of the arm chair GM-ing suggests trading players who aren’t very good, or an aging vet with a big contract, and just expecting they would be easy to unload. OTOH TW would likely yield the most outside of maybe Kuzy. You have to give to get. I think most understand this. That all being said, you don’t move TW unless it’s a Godfather offer.
Carlson, for me, is a little different. With him, he seems to be in some decline - maybe injury related, or he’s always had similar warts to his game that are worsening with age. With him, the idea of maybe trading him and his huge contract a year too early, rather than a year too late, isn’t the worst thing to just entertain/discuss. We’re only halfway through his contract.
It’s just, if we’re out again in 4-5 games, and the majority opinion is that our top 6 (and top 4 D )are untouchable, then how does the team get appreciably better? Are we really a more effective third line away from competing with these teams in the East?
There was a poll here recently as to what would constitute a failure this year and many were saying they need to get to at least 2nd round/ECF. Anything can happen in the SC playoffs, and I hope the Caps do well. But, there’s a bit of a logical inconsistency going on in these discussions.
If getting to those rounds is the expectation, and the team fails again, I don’t understand why the majority would still be so protective of the top 6 beyond nostalgia/faces of the franchise, or maybe 895. Why wouldn’t you want to try something different? If we are already losing, we can maybe still lose without a JC74, while trying to use those resources elsewhere.
And I’m not basing this on analytics - sports is a results based business. Trying the same thing (after 3+ failures), and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.
Alright, let’s get back to some actual hockey tomorrow, and hopefully we won’t have to have these summer convos so soon
Some of the arm chair GM-ing suggests trading players who aren’t very good, or an aging vet with a big contract, and just expecting they would be easy to unload. OTOH TW would likely yield the most outside of maybe Kuzy. You have to give to get. I think most understand this. That all being said, you don’t move TW unless it’s a Godfather offer.
Carlson, for me, is a little different. With him, he seems to be in some decline - maybe injury related, or he’s always had similar warts to his game that are worsening with age. With him, the idea of maybe trading him and his huge contract a year too early, rather than a year too late, isn’t the worst thing to just entertain/discuss. We’re only halfway through his contract.
It’s just, if we’re out again in 4-5 games, and the majority opinion is that our top 6 (and top 4 D )are untouchable, then how does the team get appreciably better? Are we really a more effective third line away from competing with these teams in the East?
There was a poll here recently as to what would constitute a failure this year and many were saying they need to get to at least 2nd round/ECF. Anything can happen in the SC playoffs, and I hope the Caps do well. But, there’s a bit of a logical inconsistency going on in these discussions.
If getting to those rounds is the expectation, and the team fails again, I don’t understand why the majority would still be so protective of the top 6 beyond nostalgia/faces of the franchise, or maybe 895. Why wouldn’t you want to try something different? If we are already losing, we can maybe still lose without a JC74, while trying to use those resources elsewhere.
And I’m not basing this on analytics - sports is a results based business. Trying the same thing (after 3+ failures), and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.
Alright, let’s get back to some actual hockey tomorrow, and hopefully we won’t have to have these summer convos so soon
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Carlzner
Registered User
This might end up being the worst summer of this boards history
SecretaryofDefense5
Registered User
I kind of understand what you are saying. As a fan base we sure are forgiving given how little success the franchise has had in the playoffs the last decade (sans the Stanley Cup).
And I do get your frustration. I do agree you can’t have an entire top 6 that is untouchable in terms of being willing to trade. That makes it pretty difficult to make any demonstrable change on a team. That being said, I don’t agree with a lot of the sentiment around trying to trade someone like Wilson or that the sky is falling. They can stay competitive but you can’t operate under the context of saying everyone in your top six can never be moved. It feels like this team has a lot of players who people say can’t be moved so that kind of leaves you trying to improve on the margins which can be tough. Should be an interesting summer.
HTFN
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I did entertain it. Couldn’t think of one team that would present a package worth more to the “win now” Capitals than Wilson is without indulging in serious fantasy. That’s the thing that makes no sense, who would want Wilson or Carlson that isn’t gearing up to be competitive themselves, and what would they be giving the Capitals that they themselves wouldn’t want to keep to win with?To just entertain the idea of trading Wilson doesn’t mean that (at least I) think he’s the problem with the team. It’s just more about assessing value and who would net us the most in a trade. So it’s in no way insulting to Willy, it’s quite the opposite. And no, this isn’t baseball, but players are still assessed commodities.
Some of the arm chair GM-ing suggests trading players who aren’t very good, or an aging vet with a big contract, and just expecting they would be easy to unload. OTOH TW would likely yield the most outside of maybe Kuzy. You have to give to get. I think most understand this. That all being said, you don’t move TW unless it’s a Godfather offer.
Carlson, for me, is a little different. With him, he seems to be in some decline - maybe injury related, or he’s always had similar warts to his game that are worsening with age. With him, the idea of maybe trading him and his huge contract a year too early, rather than a year too late, isn’t the worst thing to just entertain/discuss. We’re only halfway through his contract.
It’s just, if we’re out again in 4-5 games, and the majority opinion is that our top 6 (and top 4 D )are untouchable, then how does the team get appreciably better? Are we really a more effective third line away from competing with these teams in the East?
There was a poll here recently as to what would constitute a failure this year and many were saying they need to get to at least 2nd round/ECF. Anything can happen in the SC playoffs, and I hope the Caps do well. But, there’s a bit of a logical inconsistency going on in these discussions.
If getting to those rounds is the expectation, and the team fails again, I don’t understand why the majority would still be so protective of the top 6 beyond nostalgia/faces of the franchise, or maybe 895. Why wouldn’t you want to try something different? If we are already losing, we can maybe still lose without a JC74, while trying to use those resources elsewhere.
And I’m not basing this on analytics - sports is a results based business. Trying the same thing (after 3+ failures), and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.
Alright, let’s get back to some actual hockey tomorrow, and hopefully we won’t have to have these summer convos so soon
Nobody is making a roster trade for those guys that makes the Capitals significantly better, and a bird in the hand… go with the guy you know. I can’t think of a trade good enough that doesn’t involve futures and futures defeat the purpose don’t they?
It’s not insanity until they run back the whole roster. If that’s our definition we’ve been insane for nearly 15 years as we tried and failed to win repeatedly with Ovechkin, so maybe yeah, start by moving the guys you don’t need and not your pieces other teams would want most. There’s probably a decent reason they want them.
I’ve maintained for a very long time that it’s not a race to win before Ovechkin and co. stop being top 6 players, it’s a race to make a new top 6 so that you don’t have to ask a 39 year old man to carry you anymore. The best way to do that is to keep Wilson, Kuznetsov, and Mantha, get an ELC to produce, and let the veterans play 2nd/3rd line minutes with some strong special teams usage where they’re still most effective.
Making more holes in the top 6 by getting rid of the guys less likely to fall off a cliff is crazy to me.
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RedRocking
Registered User
I couldn’t agree more that the mission is to form a new top 6, where Ovi doesn’t have to be your best player, cause that’s not working long term 5v5.
Since we’re going to have Backy for a while, pending some early retirement, it would be nice to move him to 3C, or make the middle 6 more of a 2a and 2b. I’m not sure if that works money-wise, unless the kids explode.
I also wonder about eventually putting Ovi back with Nick, while providing Kuzy with someone who can take advantage of his skating and be more of a playmaker.
I hope they can use the cap space this summer to start this process by getting a top 6 difference maker, and a vet goalie.
It’s kinda hard to take your point seriously about Eichel, when the results have been so poor. Vegas gave up a lot and got seemingly worse.
Being an armchair GM is easy. Just as it is to criticize. I wish GMBM had gotten a better G. I’ve been consistent in that. I see that as our Achilles heel, easily. I just don’t envision either young goalie doing well here. They haven’t 2yrs running. I don’t expect that to change.
But Eichel was fantasy GM stuff, and it hasn’t worked out well at all (yet). It could very well turn around…..or not.
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So what... issues that YOU identify are right and correct, should be addressed and are not being an arm chair GM?
Eichel could have provided an incredible potential reset point for team. Yes, it could have also failed. I'd be perfectly willing to roll the dice. Rather be rolling the dice than looking up at 7 other teams in the conference.
HTFN
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Okay but follow these things through. What’s your package? What does the team look like this year, next year, etc?
Those are things any GM should be doing so you can’t say they’re not important. Actually show us some of the work instead of just saying “they should have done it” so we can all say “hey, yeah, that does sound like a better place to be”.
I’m willing to bet the issues Ridley sees are ones they’d be willing to go into detail with you on if you asked, but I think the 1-for-1 Wilson-Ehlers is the only real suggestion I’ve seen to chew on from the other camp insisting they should do something to look like they’re doing something
Pretty defensive. I was also armchair GM’ing and being critical. Chill out man.
Trading for Eichel is a helluva lot harder than trading for G help. That’s one player vs a slew of options.
And Vegas IS looking up at 7 teams, which they weren’t when they actually acquired Eichel.
I don’t understand your point. Caps should’ve gone after a player that has made his current team worse after they acquired him? While also giving up futures?
g00n
Retired Global Mod
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"We need better goaltending, just look at how X flops around and lets in softies. The stats are worst in the league. Maybe we can get a guy like Y or Z" is just fan and media talk.
"NHL GMs are all stupid and players and coaches have no idea what they're talking aboot, but I am able to see clearly exactly who needs to be traded for whom because spreadsheets" is armchair GMing.
"NHL GMs are all stupid and players and coaches have no idea what they're talking aboot, but I am able to see clearly exactly who needs to be traded for whom because spreadsheets" is armchair GMing.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
How? Think it through. We were capped out. Buffalo wanted an impact center, roster players in general, and key futures. An unproven McMichael and Lapierre don't get it done. And even if they could either or both be centerpieces of such a trade, we don't have 10 million in cap space to pay the guy when he gets here.
They wouldn't want Backstrom, so that leaves Kuznetsov in a prove-it year coming off lots of bad behavior, a crummy season, and some no-show playoff performances. And even if they could either or both be centerpieces in such a trade, no one wants to play in Buffalo, and they both have movement clauses that absolutely would have blocked a trade there.
So we literally did not have the assets to even be in the conversation for Eichel. Every player with real value that they would have wanted from us -- Kuznetsov, Orlov, Wilson, Carlson -- have movement clauses. None of our prospects have proven top-end value, and we're still a good team so our 1st round picks don't figure to be all that high. No chance at Eichel. None.
You say get Eichel, twabby says get Pettersson... These are ridiculously unrealistic suggestions.
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crab
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No way they should trade Wilson. He would be a valuable asset even during the eventual rebuild. A player that sticks up for teammates, is talented enough to play and can fight well is something you want to keep for the future to protect the young players.
Teams know if they f*** around they have to answer to Wilson.
Teams know if they f*** around they have to answer to Wilson.
g00n
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The problem is the PK is so bad it partially neutralizes some of Wilson's talents. He's best when he's creating chaos and fear on the ice, and shaking pucks loose with that intimidation factor.
Knowing you can kill just about any penalty allows for guys like Wilson to play more freely. With the league waiting for him to slip up, and refs looking for him every time there's a hit or a scrum, you have to be more careful when your PK isn't up to snuff.
This is the current glaring flaw in VV's game that could kill us in the playoffs. I expect a more animated, dangerous Wilson in the postseason and if we continue to stink on the PK it could be one and done. OTOH if you don't unleash the Wilson you leave a lot on the table.
PK has to be better. That's the keystone.
Knowing you can kill just about any penalty allows for guys like Wilson to play more freely. With the league waiting for him to slip up, and refs looking for him every time there's a hit or a scrum, you have to be more careful when your PK isn't up to snuff.
This is the current glaring flaw in VV's game that could kill us in the playoffs. I expect a more animated, dangerous Wilson in the postseason and if we continue to stink on the PK it could be one and done. OTOH if you don't unleash the Wilson you leave a lot on the table.
PK has to be better. That's the keystone.
SecretaryofDefense5
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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caps4cup
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I don’t like McMichael being out of the lineup but I think that he’s right on the heels of both Eller and Johansson at this point in terms of being the next man up. I thought Eller’s effort and energy was noticeably better against Carolina after being moved to wing at practice so CMM could stay the 3C. But he’s obviously been struggling and I don’t think either player is exactly on firm footing.
I imagine they likely want to give Johansson a few more games and then if he doesn’t fit anywhere in the top 9, enter CMM. Something I wouldn’t mind seeing is:
8-92-77
24-19-39
73-20-43
I imagine they likely want to give Johansson a few more games and then if he doesn’t fit anywhere in the top 9, enter CMM. Something I wouldn’t mind seeing is:
8-92-77
24-19-39
73-20-43
Yes, scratch one of the few forwards who seem capable of driving plays.
I guess they're gonna ride or die with Mojo on top line.
I guess they're gonna ride or die with Mojo on top line.
You want your veterans in for the stretch run and playoffs. Man’s game now. I have no issue with this lineup and it is still going to evolve as Lavi works through things in the room. Haha.
I have not been happy with Mojo but excited to see him with OV and Backstrom. They need to do something to get first line going.
I have not been happy with Mojo but excited to see him with OV and Backstrom. They need to do something to get first line going.
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