Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 2

[txpd]

Holtby is done with us! He's not gonna sign a short-term deal and he's not taking backup money. Another team will most definitely land him as their #1, but at the same amount or a bit less than what he was making on his last contract. Some of you really need to move on with holding out hope to re-sign Holtby!

1, I dont think there is a reasonable chance that Holtby returns. 2, I do think that this off season is going to be strange and things you wouldnt predict will happen. 3. With that in mind I am not going to be surprised by anything. If it was announced that the teams that were going to be interested in Holtby were getting hurt financially were not signing UFA players and that he lost his market, you would be shocked?

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Going back to the goalie coach, the Caps can't stick with Scott Murray(he couldn't connect with Holtby and I was not impressed at all what he did with Samsonov).

I would be very interested in knowing what that refers to, and how you managed to get that information.

As far as I know, no one here knows much of anything about Scott Murray's job performance and the only basis we have to even speculate on it is the goalies' play, which is barely better than nothing.

 

[hockeykicker]

we’re hearing they’re also going to be on the lookout for a cost-effective middle six-winger that can provide some scoring punch.

They are, however, actively pursuing an extension for Dillon, we’re told. The team liked how the 29-year-old, who was acquired from San Jose before the trade deadline, fit in the room and on the ice. Inking Dillon is a priority and many of the Caps’ decisions elsewhere must wait until there’s a resolution.

It also appears Gudas will join Holtby in hitting the open market. The 30-year-old started strong but fell out of favor with the coaches and faded as the Caps’ team game deteriorated down the stretch. This one shouldn’t come as a surprise: Kovalchuk won’t be returning.

Siegenthaler, who played a career high 64 games last season and anchored the Caps’ sixth-ranked penalty kill, will be qualified and re-signed.

Boyd’s situation, meantime, is more complicated. He’s got arbitration rights, according to CapFriendly, and is projected to get a one-year deal worth $861,000, according to Evolving-Hockey. The Caps are concerned that the 27-year-old may end up commanding more than they’re willing/able to pay.

*The Caps don’t anticipate being active during the league’s buyout period, which begins Friday and runs through Oct. 8.

*A recent TSN.ca report suggested that some teams are considering an internal cap that’s below (and in some cases well below) next year’s $81.5 million cap. Washington is planning to spend to the ceiling, we’re told.

What I'm hearing about the Capitals' offseason so far

 

[hb12xchamps]

A solid back up and a 1b are different things. I am good with a solid back up. I would expect that.

What the hell is the difference? Backups get a lot more starts today than they did even a few seasons ago. Holtby is kind of a dying breed in terms of guys who can start 60-70 games a year. I don’t think that’s the plan with Samsonov anyway. He’s going to be the starter or 1A, I just don’t see him getting a larger workload than the backup

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Count me in as a Samsonov-Vanecek tandem stan. If you go on the market for a goalie you better waste your assets be it cap space or picks for a legit goaltender who is not old, who is on the rise and who might be the starter presently and in the future with about the same probability as Samsonov. If you don't have that option on the market just roll the dice with what you have. Sometimes it's just time to give the kids the stage to showcase what they really got. They're not that young anymore. It's time to become men

let’s hope ATVsonov is healthy. Dangerously close to pissing away Ovy’s last years if he doesn’t pan out and they have no credible option, but I’ve always assumed it was Copley/Vanny after Holtby. The only kink in that plan was a 4 wheeler.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

“Actively pursing an extension with Dillon”

“Inking Dillon is a priority”

Tex?

 

[tenken00]

let’s hope ATVsonov is healthy. Dangerously close to pissing away Ovy’s last years if he doesn’t pan out and they have no credible option, but I’ve always assumed it was Copley/Vanny after Holtby. The only kink in that plan was a 4 wheeler.

If this wasn't Mission: Critical, I can understand the idea of letting the young goalies sink or swim. But it is Mission: Critical. In the likely event that the young goalies hit a wall, the success chance of the one last hurrah could be over before it even got going.

 

[Hivemind]

There is no need to sign Holtby to 1y contract. You can sign him to term and then later trade him. Win-win.

Easier said than done. If he underperforms his contract, the Capitals would be left holding the bag.

 

[txpd]

What the hell is the difference? Backups get a lot more starts today than they did even a few seasons ago. Holtby is kind of a dying breed in terms of guys who can start 60-70 games a year. I don’t think that’s the plan with Samsonov anyway. He’s going to be the starter or 1A, I just don’t see him getting a larger workload than the backup

Really? You dont know the difference between a platoon starter and a backup? Gomes and Suzuki are 1a and 1b catchers. They split the duty. A backup doesnt play your big games or your 3 game homestands.

 

[Rayquaza64]

There is no need to sign Holtby to 1y contract. You can sign him to term and then later trade him. Win-win.

The only obstacle is cap space. Which is obtainable via Panik and co.

Boston had this problem with Rask kinda. There was a moment Thomas was paid like 7M and then Rask was signed to 4M or smth like that. In a year Thomas retired and Rask became #1 for the time being.

In our case Holtby wont be retiring, he will be a good asset for Caps. At the very least you can leave him unprotected for ED.

After MAF's few years in Vegas I bet Seattle will gladly gamble on Holtby being good for them.

So, signing Holtby to term (without NTC/NMC ofc) with an agreement he could be unprotected if Sammy displaces him should be good enough for Caps. Maybe even Sammy goes into bad shape and gets unprotected status. I can imagine that, but I hope it wont be the case.

i dont see any planet where Holtby doesnt sign without a NMC, pretty sure he stated in an interview he wants Seattle protection, and i dont see how giving up a young goalie to seattle with a high ceiling over an old goaltender on the wrong side of 30 who has shown serious signs of decline is a good idea at all. I wouldn't mind giving him like a one year deal but any longer and we're pushing it

 

[Raikkonen]

If he wants Seattle protection there is no deal possible then. Didnt read that anywhere.

 

[SherVaughn30]

There is no need to sign Holtby to 1y contract. You can sign him to term and then later trade him. Win-win.

The only obstacle is cap space. Which is obtainable via Panik and co.

Boston had this problem with Rask kinda. There was a moment Thomas was paid like 7M and then Rask was signed to 4M or smth like that. In a year Thomas retired and Rask became #1 for the time being.

In our case Holtby wont be retiring, he will be a good asset for Caps. At the very least you can leave him unprotected for ED.

After MAF's few years in Vegas I bet Seattle will gladly gamble on Holtby being good for them.

So, signing Holtby to term (without NTC/NMC ofc) with an agreement he could be unprotected if Sammy displaces him should be good enough for Caps. Maybe even Sammy goes into bad shape and gets unprotected status. I can imagine that, but I hope it wont be the case.

Holtby's time is done here. Just let go with all these what if type scenarios. Holtby has already stated he's not gonna take a discount as it would disrespect the PA. It's time to move on from Holtby.

 

[SherVaughn30]

I would be very interested in knowing what that refers to, and how you managed to get that information.

As far as I know, no one here knows much of anything about Scott Murray's job performance and the only basis we have to even speculate on it is the goalies' play, which is barely better than nothing.

Well let's go back in time to 2018 before the playoffs started(my timeline might not be exact). When Grubauer was getting more starts than Holtby, because he was struggling, it was Murray that was goalie coach and not Korn, who was leaning towards retirement but was still the Caps goaltending consultant. When the playoffs started Grubauer struggled the first two games and Holtby took over. Holtby resurgence was a result of Korn taking over the goalie coach duties. Translation, Scott Murray wasn't cutting it.

After the Caps won the Cup with Holtby, the 2 seasons that followed with Korn gone, Holtby just never seemed to be in sync with what Scott Murray was teaching him. I will add that Murray's goalie coach knowledge was better suited for goalies who play the modern butterfly(VH/Reverse VH technique) and not so suited for Holtby style that is far more Hybrid and considered an older style of goaltending.

Moving on to Samsonov, the reason I say I'm not impressed with what Murray did with Samsonov, because from what I could see Samsonov was putting up great numbers because of his talent. Towards the end when he hit that slump, the lack of experience(north american game) and mental toughness(that all NHL goalie needs to survive in the NHL) started to waiver. I also think Samsonov slump was a result him wearing down a bit in first NHL season. I just feel even with Samsonov, Murray's coaching was not helping Samsonov as much as ppl might think.

The theme the last 2 seasons has been the Caps coaching was not experienced enough and good enough for the roster that was on hand. I'm almost confident, had Holtby/Samsonov had a more experienced goalie coach in that 2 year span, both goalies would have put up better regular season numbers then what they ended up with, despite the inconsistencies from the d-group and team defense.

 

[trick9]

Backup goalie is a luxury position. If you have a great team already, then you can afford to have guy making more money sitting on the bench when it matters. But when your team is filled with holes elsewhere in the line-up, it's silly to spend that salary on a backup who won't be playing the crucial games. I don't want to go into the season with Samsonov/Copley tandem but there are much bigger problems in the roster than that.

 

[Melkor]

let’s hope ATVsonov is healthy. Dangerously close to pissing away Ovy’s last years if he doesn’t pan out and they have no credible option, but I’ve always assumed it was Copley/Vanny after Holtby. The only kink in that plan was a 4 wheeler.

I really hated it when I found out how did he get his injury. Like bro you made it you're in the NHL, is it that difficult to be a pro and avoid this stupid stuff? Not a good sign regarding his personality but I hope he's okay. Personally I would have preferred them to trade for a young goalie who has difficulties getting an amount of minutes he wants on his current team and who will compete here for a #1 job but I don't see them doing it unless Samsonov shits the bed this season. Which is kinda dumb when your main guys are basically grandpas already. The idea of getting an experienced guy as backup or 1B is overrated to me. Barely anyone of that kind of veterans can log that many games and play on the same level as Halak did for Bs last couple of seasons. It's a rare thing. You waste like 2-2,5M for stuff that you can easily get out of somebody inside the organization.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Holtby resurgence was a result of Korn taking over the goalie coach duties. Translation, Scott Murray wasn't cutting it.

We have no idea if that's the case or not. Korn returned during the regular season to work with Holtby, and Holtby mostly continued to suck. Holtby is a notorious head case and the default explanation with him should always be that it's mental. What we know is the team's defensive play had cratered in 2017-2018. Holtby allowed more goals, lost his confidence, allowed even more. In the playoffs, he got to come in after Grubauer had failed and help save the team.

Korn is certainly said to be an incredible goalie coach, and it seems likely that Murray is not as effective as him. But beyond that, I don't see how we can tell much of anything about Murray. There are way too many other factors. Holtby may have just physically lost an edge. He may have needed the stronger defense that was in front of him during his peak years to be at that level consistently. Samsonov has said himself that the season was grueling and he was exhausted by the all-star break. That's something he would have had to work through with any coach.

 

[Raikkonen]

Holtby's time is done here. Just let go with all these what if type scenarios. Holtby has already stated he's not gonna take a discount as it would disrespect the PA. It's time to move on from Holtby.

That was said pre-covid IIRC

 

[txpd]

“Actively pursing an extension with Dillon”

“Inking Dillon is a priority”

Tex?

Ok.

 

[txpd]

I really hated it when I found out how did he get his injury. Like bro you made it you're in the NHL, is it that difficult to be a pro and avoid this stupid stuff? Not a good sign regarding his personality but I hope he's okay. Personally I would have preferred them to trade for a young goalie who has difficulties getting an amount of minutes he wants on his current team and who will compete here for a #1 job but I don't see them doing it unless Samsonov shits the bed this season. Which is kinda dumb when your main guys are basically grandpas already. The idea of getting an experienced guy as backup or 1B is overrated to me. Barely anyone of that kind of veterans can log that many games and play on the same level as Halak did for Bs last couple of seasons. It's a rare thing. You waste like 2-2,5M for stuff that you can easily get out of somebody inside the organization.

Tom Wilson broke his leg on a skateboard. That Samsonov fell off an ATV doesnt bother me. What concerns me more is that he apparantly didnt tell anyone and dropped a bomb on the team at the last minute.

 

[max21]

Just looking back on the 15-16’ 16-17’ seasons, we were so dominant those years in the regular season. My first caps game was in 16’ we beat the Blackhawks like 6-0 it was a rad night. Got very drunk after the game at Rocket bar lol, hope to have some of those nights soon please go away covid.

 

[Rayquaza64]

Tom Wilson broke his leg on a skateboard. That Samsonov fell off an ATV doesnt bother me. What concerns me more is that he apparantly didnt tell anyone and dropped a bomb on the team at the last minute.

just as long as samsonov is recovering well and it doesnt affect his playing ability this whole story will likely be forgotten

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

The goalie market is deep this year and the flat cap/internal salary caps won’t help. I’ve long been on the “don’t close the book on Holtby” train and Tarik’s article lends credence to the theory. From a free agent perspective you probably want to avoid a long term deal right now, obviously next years cap is in question too, but at the very least you have a chance of it moving up. It makes sense for some one like Holtby to try and sign a 1-2 year deal at roughly the same price until that free agent lid blows off when the cap expands. It also doesn’t help that there are going to be a lot of decent to very good G’s available this off season.


Do I think it’s likely 70 comes back? No, it’s still a long shot. Do I see a situation where it makes sense? Yes, and i think the team and Holtby have said as much as well.


One of the big issues though is that a while back on Greg Wyshynki’s podcast it was mentioned that Holtby is very much set on being a clear #1. I think on exit interviews both Samsonov and Holtby made it clear that they’re not exactly chummy. It would take a major dynamic shift for Holtby to accept the role of mentor, I just don’t think he’s up for it. You’re probably better off signing a Craig Anderson or Lundqvist for that.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Third line of McMichael/Panik-Eller-Ryan anyone?

 

[Misery74]

Third line of McMichael/Panik-Eller-Ryan anyone?

If he’s anything like Kovalchuk, I’d stay away.

Haven’t watched him play enough to know if he has anything left.

 

[Langway]

I'd do it on the cheap but I suspect someone will give him more money and opportunity. Perhaps Florida given their departures. Or BUF/NJD given their cap space.

Wayne Simmonds has a track record with Laviolette and you wonder if there's a soft market if that isn't a strong fit for both sides. Not quite the offensive game they're after but at their likely price tag I don't know who would realistically fit barring more buyouts.